Breeding IBL for shorter harvest times??

[hamstring]

I have a novice breeder’s question regarding IBL or stabilized strains.

I am at 42 deg north lat and have finally realized to come up with a potent strain that will work for my lat outdoors I need to investigate breeding one my self.
I am a seeder (I grow everything from seed) and do not clone. I realize it may be easier to find a early mother plant pheno from a good strain and clone but I am after a F1 with earlier harvest time traits.

After discussing with a fellow guerrilla grower he suggested starting with an IBL or highly stabilized strain to cross with an early finisher to cut down on variation or variables if you will.
Strains I have looked at like NL, AK or C99 seem to be good choices for potency, taste, yield but after some research I found that Tom Hill had mentioned that these highly stabilized strains tend to hold or dominate their traits when crossed. So I am a little confused on whether an IBL is a good choice for a cross or not when looking to shorten harvest time???

So would it be better to go with a poly-hybrid Like KC33???
It is not considered an IBL and has some great traits but finishes anywhere from Oct 1st – Oct 21st and I would like to bring the harvest time down to the Oct 1st range. I realize of course that there will be some variations in the F1 but I am willing to work with that.

Any input is much appreciated.

 

[hamstring]

BUMP
I know its closing in on the new year so probably not much traffic here but any guidance is much appreciated.
PEACE

 

[Lean Green]

Assuming you did have an inbred line, what would you cross it with? What's your early finisher? What strains have you had success with in your location?

 

[amrad]

HEy Hamstring!
I'm in the same situation. Have you got in contact with local outdoor growers to see what strains do well in your area? I grow Texada Timewarp in my area which is 50 north, Its a guarantee here. But would like something a bit higher yeilding though.
So this year I'm thinking of planting a whole shit load of seed, some I'v been storing in the freezer for years. And those that make it through the frost in beginning of Oct I'll use for breeding. And from there just use selective breeding until I come up with a gooder for my area. Hey, Happy New Years, the best to you and those you love. Peace

 

[hamstring]

Lean Green
Well the jury’s still out on what I would cross it with. I have been told by a more experienced grower/breeder that two IBLs like mitey mite x NL or mitey mite x AK would be best to keep variation of the plants down. I am still deciding because it’s much harder to find a potent early season plant let alone an IBL.

I have grown many short season strains but the ones I am considering for the early finisher are

GG2 & GG3 -------------Sept 1st-15th finish
Freezeland crosses ----- Sept 15th - Oct 1st finish
Manitoba Madness ----- Sept 1st finish

I like the heavy hitters (couch lock) type strains and have grown Endless Sky (couch lock) but again the finish date of Oct 7th- 17th is just not reliable enough for my lat. That’s why my search to find out what’s the best choice for breeding to shorten harvest time.

If the IBL strains hold or (dominate) their crosses maybe ( I do not know) they would be a poor choice to cross with an early finisher.

Have you or anyone crossed NL or C99 or AK to shorten its finish time to meet a Sept 15th - Oct 1st finish?
That’s why I was also looking at poly-hybrids like KC strains.

Amrad
Thanks for the feedback sounds like you and I are in the same boat. I am just not satisfied with most of the Sept finishers I have grown and it seem like time to learn more about my favorite plant to breed what I am looking for. Good luck and Happy New year
PEACE

 

[DocLeaf]

In your situation we'd consider planting several different varieties suited to fast flowering outdoors (e.g. Holland's Hope, Outsider, Durban Poison, NL). Sow out as many seeds as possible and select the healthiest/most vigorous/ earliest flowering individuals as parent plants.

Then , next season, start inbreeding your new variety towards your own criteria and make your own outdoor IBL.

We are currently working towards a similar goal,, with a glasshouse ibl

Hope this helps...

 

[hamstring]

Doc
I really appreciate the info. You are the first one that suggested this method. I wanted to make sure I understood you correctly because what I read was to grow out a IBL like Durban or NL (or both) pick the earliest most vigorous plants from them and then self them (for lack of a better term).
So not crossing the strains but breeding the earlier finishers with in the same strain to try and get an earlier version?

The guerrilla I have been working with did just that used a strain, I believe it was Fast Freddie, and worked with until he had the finish date he wanted. He did mention that after many years it started loosing its vigor.

Thanks for the info I looked up all the strains you suggested the only one I wasn’t familiar with was "outsider" and when I did some research something puzzling came up. Hemcy Seed had a finish date of Aug 1st - Aug 15th but High Quality Seeds had Oct 15th - Oct 31st.

Either a misprint or not the same strain. Which seed company has the version you would suggest?

Whose version of NL would you suggest?

PEACE and Happy New Year

 

[North]

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=129158

Hamstring, heres an interesting discussion.

I really wish we knew what F# in filial chain all these strains that are being sold are.It would help in selecting certain strains to work with.

DocLeaf,
your saying take any fast flowering strain that posseses the traits we desire and start acclimatizing it? wonder how many generations it would take to get 75%+ of the plants to consistantly finish for a given date?
I can think of 1 person who has a columbian line thats been worked on for close to 20 years to get it to finish outdoors at 45N, he's still fighting hermi traits though.

 

[DocLeaf]

Doc
I really appreciate the info. You are the first one that suggested this method. I wanted to make sure I understood you correctly because what I read was to grow out a IBL like Durban or NL (or both) pick the earliest most vigorous plants from them and then self them (for lack of a better term).
So not crossing the strains but breeding the earlier finishers with in the same strain to try and get an earlier version?

We'd use several early varieties.
Once sown ,, we'd forget about the names on the packets and select purely on health and early flowering.
The selected male and female would tango in the same space.
Then next season we'd inbreed the new seeds together.
Then continue with the same selection process.
The line will take 5-6 generations to homogenise.

Hope this makes sense

 

[hamstring]

Doc
Thanks for the feedback I really like this method because it suits my growing style. Simple and clean easy to understand for a newbie breeder like myself.

Once your F1 seeds are made and you are working the 4-5 generations towards homogenized plants do start looking for the potency and maybe taste characteristics?(Taste not as important as potency from my stand point when looking for early finish times)

 

[DocLeaf]

Yes. exactly ,, in each generation certain characteristics can be perpetuated (continued) in lineage. Recessive characteristics (traits) will also show up from line to line as will really dominant plants.

Most breeders slip into the world of breeding out of curiosity and experimentation,,, but try NOT to let things get too heavy,,, outdoors plants are subjected to nature ,, so let nature be the dictator... use the plants that grow best in the environ!

The most important thing is to have fun and learn stuff you didnt already know about plants

Happy breeding

 

[bluebuds]

great info guys! ive been playing around with making the perfect outdoor cross for my area also. so docleaf your saying the more generations you cross what your looking for, the more stable the line will be? thanks fellas, -bluebuds

 

[DocLeaf]

Yes,, with inbreeding seed lines become more and more homogeneous.

(n.b. with hybridization seed lines become heterogeneous).

If/when the outdoor climate is a selective factor in survival of individuals over generations , within the same environ,, then the seed line / variety will slowly acclimatises itself to the land. The fittest of the fittest shall survive

However with inbreeding vigor is reduced... the plant line becomes played out and gradually becomes weaker in patterns of growth and sometimes cannabinoid profile than its parents and grandparents where. These IBL seed lines make ideal parents ,, for a new generation of hybrids

Hope this helps

 

[hamstring]

Doc
Thanks again for all the help and advice much appreciated. Hope to see you over at the outdoor forum with some of your new gentics that you are working on. I will be starting my breeding project 2010 outdoor myself and like you said I will have some fun with it and keep in touch with my results.

Any other advice you have, tricks or tips ??? I am all ears.
PEACE

 

[DocLeaf]

Any other advice you have, tricks or tips ??? I am all ears.
PEACE

Yeah,, work from a variety of IBL seed stock from established breeders ,, and home breeders... do plenty research online here and there,, pm or open thread fellow growers that are into the same methods / style of growing

We follow this philosophy,,,

Erb,, Roots,, Culture,,
Peace,, Love,, Unity,,

,, in combination they can work wonders

 

[englishrick]

Yes,, with inbreeding seed lines become more and more homogeneous.

(n.b. with hybridization seed lines become heterogeneous).

If/when the outdoor climate is a selective factor in survival of individuals over generations , within the same environ,, then the seed line / variety will slowly acclimatises itself to the land. The fittest of the fittest shall survive

However with inbreeding vigor is reduced... the plant line becomes played out and gradually becomes weaker in patterns of growth and sometimes cannabinoid profile than its parents and grandparents where. These IBL seed lines make ideal parents ,, for a new generation of hybrids

Hope this helps

hay doc,,,,i hate to nitpick, but i thought id say somthing

imo ,,fitness can only be evaluated apropreatly in a seeline from growing x2000 or more,,,,

i just wana point out::::::::::::a 10pack is a bacily x10 selected at random!!!,,,,,,any incrossing would MAINLY be baced on the x10 seed selection,,,,



my advice = grow more plants

 

[Centrum]

wouldn't an afghani work ?
From there you can add what you like into the mix.

 

[DocLeaf]

hay doc,,,,i hate to nitpick, but i thought id say somthing

imo ,,fitness can only be evaluated apropreatly in a seeline from growing x2000 or more,,,,

i just wana point out::::::::::::a 10pack is a bacily x10 selected at random!!!,,,,,,any incrossing would MAINLY be baced on the x10 seed selection,,,,

Not really rick,, the fitness of any individual is measured against its population. .. large or small.

 

[amrad]

To make it realllly simple.
Plant as many different strains that you think might finish in your area. Let nature do its thing, IT will select those that will form the breeders for the next generation.
What I mean is when the frost comes those that are unable to survive will be eliminated from the breeding pool. Do this for a few generations ie; breed the survivors to each other without selection for traits. If you find, which you surely will, that potency is decreasing cross breed to a high potency strain that takes just a bit longer to mature than your area will allow. When you get a population that has a fairly high percentage of survivors, start lookin for traits like taste ect. Even when you find a population that is aclimatized for your area, be routhless in picking those individuals with high potency to breed with and discard the rest. That will mean that you will have to seperate sexes as soon as they show, or youl end up with wild hemp.
Anyway thats how I plan on doing it.

 

[JamieShoes]

I get that 2000 plants make for better selection, but (apparently) one of Somas dads cames from 1 of 2 seeds that sprouted (and made him a fortune) and Shanti used an '88 sk1 male in his NHS that was one of only 5 seeds that sprouted...(out of 200, the other 195 were duds)...