Canna Boost V Molasses - side by side comparison.

[Hazy Lady]

Thanks everyone

Thanks everyone

Hazy, where have u heard super grow is DEA owned? That seems a little far fetched, but anything is possible. I tried a few searches and came up with notta on the dea idea. Isnt DEA USA? Supergrow is in canada i believe.


B-safe

I don't know what to say Gman, I thought it was far fetched when I penned it, sorry to send you off searching, I didn't think anyone would believe it for a second, again, I am sorry dear.

................ ...........

Hazy Lady...
*edit*

missed this 1... tan-light brown liquid...

enjoy your garden!

ojd uses the Bcuzz coco booster and having smoked his weed a few times, it is AAA top notch. I think truecannabliss uses the bcuzz booster too and he has also won cups.

Thanks Indi, I am sure you're right - Bcuzz, got to be worth looking at with that track record alone.

taste is a big factor I agree. But very surprising all the same, even pre full cure.

Re tric (f**k it, you all know what I mean) wasn't there a link to some pre mixed liquid stuff after the initial talk of pineapple refineries on far flung islands? Doc something. It might have been on another thread, but I've not made it up honest!

Heehee, pinapple refineries is it, our *m* has sorted you I see, you loony!

see posts 258 & 259 in this thread...

enjoy your garden!

Thanks *m* (more below)

I thought I would condense and share some things I've found, since we're on the topic of what's in things.

Mychorrizae:
http://www.saviskyproturf.com/28.html

Superthrive:
"No evidence was accumulated through the 4 trials to convince me that Superthrive was of any value as a "tonic" for plants with roots that were beyond the initiation or recovery stage.

The first ingredient listed as beneficial on the Superthrive label is vitamin B-1 (or thiamine). Growing plants are able to synthesize their own vitamin B-1 as do many of the fungi and bacteria having relationships with plant roots, so it's extremely doubtful that vitamin B-1 could be deficient in soils or that a growing plant could exhibit a vitamin B-1 deficiency.

Some will note that I used more of the product than suggested on the container. I wanted to see if any unwanted effects surfaced as well as trying to be sure there was ample opportunity for clear delineation between the groups. I suspect that if a more dilute solution was used, the difference between groups would have been less clear.

It might be worth noting that since the product contains the growth regulator (hormone) auxin, its overuse can cause defoliation, at least in dicots. The broad-leaf weed killer Weed-B-Gone and the infamous Agent Orange, a defoliant that saw widespread use in Viet Nam, are little more than synthetic auxin." - quoted from another forum

I'm still looking into Gravity and Bushmaster (Humboldt Counties Own/Emerald Triangle) since they make some fantastic claims that no other products I know of compare with. From what I've found, they could both be products of Gibberellic Acid. It seems they recommend Using Bushmaster at light change, and Gravity 3 weeks before harvest. They recommend you don't use too much - THEY REALLY STRESS THIS! Also they say not to do it if a plant is stressed.

My observations lead me to believe that GA (which my shop sells straight in a lab-type bottle for ~$25), in certain doses will stress a plant, causing a plant to finish it's current cycle and move to the next. Applying it at light change will make the plant go 'eeP', finish veg, and jump right on to bloom *COUGH*Bushmaster. This minimizes stretch and can take up to two weeks off of bloom time, even though half that was more typical.

Applying GA 3 weeks before harvest would cause the plants to go 'eeP' and try to finish up ASAP, sucking up nutes and trying to get those buds out, since they are in the final phase *COUGH*Gravity. It's supposed to add weight and density and guaranty NO SLOW FINISHES!

All this clicked one day not long after I was foliar spraying my big plants, and realized I had set some babies down about 4' under the HPS while I was doing something with the veg area (since the big ones were >60" and the babies were <4" it was easier to overlook them than you would think; as for forgetting I had put them there... meh who knows eh? ).

I was thinking, hrm, gravity on tiny plants, will they bud in 3 weeks? lol
No, but seriously - these little critters were growing leaps and bounds, doubling in size every few days. Suddenly that all stopped, they didn't grow at all for a few days, then they started bushing out and branching, one branch even pushed the main grow stem aside to have it's way with the plant. It didn't look normal, but since I'm growing Sativa I'm gonna roll with it. I now have 12" little shrubs! I don't have any pics that really show a 4" bush (does that sound dirty or is it just me?) but I'll try to get some and post them tomorrow. Hopefully that one still has a branch higher than the main stem!

Please do Badge, very interesting read, I am unsure of the benefits of Superthrive, you made good arguments for not needing it.
Isn't Bushmaster banned now? I was under the belief it was classed as hazardous or it's carcinogenic maybe? I do remember it, I think it worked quite well, it kept plants short but I am sure it used to weaken the potency, anyone else recall that?
I don't know this Gravity you speak of, so it is doing to the hormones what bending, topping or training does, to promote side growth, and by doing so keeps the plant growing instead of finishing early. Keep in touch eh, let us know how these things are going, thanks for posting Badger

see posts 258 & 259 in this thread...

Biochemical Stimulation of Plant Growth
http://www.rexresearch.com/agro/biochstim.htm http://www.alfagrow.com/about.html
only requires very small amount of tria do tasks it does. maybe enough in regular alfalfa meal/pellets available everywhere. increased levels showed disadvantageous effects.

enjoy your garden!

*m*, I hope you are well, I want to thank you for all you help with the Triacontanol, I agree with you, with such tiny amounts needed (PPM's) I don't think we'll need any polysorbate, I will use a solvent to dilute mine as you suggest. Very interesting views in these two link's, I think we can be certain Tri' is the magic bullet, now we just need to figure out how best to utilise it!.
Those pellets would be a great addition to any soil grower, they have so many good sides, great links as always, many thanks *m* ( I know you posted these but as they dont come out in quotes I will repost them

From the site "Alfalfa contains triacontanol, a powerful growth hormone, along with other nutrients and minerals. Adding alfalfa pellets to your landscape will aerate your soil, adjust the pH and improve water penetration and moisture retention. It also increases bio-activity, soil structure, and increases the effectiveness of your fertilizing program.
Added to your compost, it will enhance the breakdown of grass clippings and leaves. It will attract red worms which will further breakdown the compost material".
and this on Tri' itself,Growth Stimulant.
Triacontanol is a naturally occurring plant hormone that acts as a growth promoter. AlfaGrow is a natural source of the plant growth promoter triacontanol. The International Society for Horticultural Science (ISHS) tested the effects of triacontanol on growth and yield of different horticultural crops. ISHS found that the yield per treated plant was significantly higher. Triacontanol has been called "the most potent growth hormone ever used on plants." (Great Lakes Region Newsletter, Fall Edition-1993, page 9 submitted by Clarence Owens and taken from a lecture by D.L. Hinerman, M.D.)

More Tri' info from *m*'s other link
Triacontanol ~ This fatty acid is found in many plants. It increases growth rates and yields up to 25%, and increases the protein content, even in darkness, when most plants are dormant. It seems to enhance the growth of plants without increasing their consumption of nitrogen. Triacontanol is non-toxic, and incredibly potent. The applied dosage is one part in 10 million of water, applied as a foliar spray. The simplest way to use triacontanol is to plow under a crop of alfalfa, which contains relatively large amounts of the substance. Other common sources include cotton, apples, and sunflower seeds (which contain up to 8% in the fatty acid fraction).

 

[Hazy Lady]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SUPERthrive

SUPERthrive was developed by Dr. John A. A. Thomson
http://www.superthrive.com/

http://www.superthrive.com/freetrial.html

I am sorry my friend, if you look I said Hazy Lady

"Super grow being owned by the DEA put me off a little too, even over here.

I am a little surprised only *mistress* seems to have taken it as intended, I am sorry that you was hunting around needlessly anyway, you know that was not intended for anyone least of all you kid, good to see you're back now

SUPER-GROW.BIZ... not super thrive!!!!!!

TOTALLY different..............

Website not a product....

Supergrow is canada based company.... basically just a supplier of acids an horticultural enhancers.


B-safe

All these posts over this, I am getting embarrassed now, Sorry Gman.

Ah! sorry ;>}

Does anyone use these products regularly ?

Fulvic Acid 75% @ http://super-grow.biz/FulvicAcid.jsp

MycoMaxx @ http://super-grow.biz/MycoMaxx.jsp


Products are not available in Canada.

I wonder why this company doesn't sell their products in their own country ?

How odd, I would like to hear why too, Fulvic is a natural, safe product as far as I know, essential to all plant growth. It surly can't be a law that allows them to manufacture these products in Canada but not sell them, what? are are they classed as weapons!

I want some of what you're smokin' bro

Heehee, He doesn't need a smoke he really is that daft

Owl, NP . i wanna know if hazy was thinking that too, or smoking from your stash.

No worries. Just the whole thing with super-grow being owned by the dea kinda got me wondering.


Mycomax is a mycrohaze ( spelling), not sure about concentrations. mycrohaze is a great bene to add. helping break down dead material and nutes to simplier forms tha the plant can consume.

Never tried there fulvic. which i should, i use ruby fulvic, and tried diamond nectar. i like the ruby. plants seem to be more perky and more responsive. thicker, healthier stems and petioles. thou i never have run a side by side with or without either. Just things ive tried before and have stuck with casue they appear to make a differnce.

Super grow has a cloneing hormone i would like to try one day. they do have side by side comaprison photos.

B-safe

I have been smoking a close relative to Owlies flowers as it happens, but no I meant Super grow, I just didn't mean IT! I stuck one of these after it so people would know, I am amazed someone took me seriously period. I am astounded this grew legs

Thanks Gman
I did a search for: Super-Grow owned by US drug enforcement administration

I found absolutely nothing related to this inquiry.
Where did you hear this rumor and how reliable is it ?
It would be a shame to ruin a good company with a malicious unfounded rumor.

Yes OM, it really would and I do mean it when I say I am really sorry if this caused anymore than a bit of banter on here, I hope it didn't but as I said I did stick a big after it, I am sorry you had a search because I know you will have really! searched, again I do apoligise to anyone put out in any way by my gag, sorry again to you OM

Quote: Hi Badge, I can think of one use for silicon that doesn't really work, more great stuff, I/we have been very lucky on this thread, thanks for all your links and info.
You say about spraying 'melting' trichs, I know you don't mean washing away of course but I have wasted the odd hours on this, as nothing we are interested in is water soluble, and would be a huge cock-up by Mother Nature, rains/sprays can't have the effect of directly washing crystals away but it could be as a reaction to the spray all the same.
One of the main reasons trichs exist is to direct harsh sunlight from the tender seeds inside the calyx, could rain/spraying frequently convince the plant it is not going to need as many because if it's raining it's not as sunny, even though it is in good light? plants react to different stimulus in so many ways who knows, the direct water on leaf may over ride the message its sunny pehaps? well I did say I had wasted a few hours over this, just a thought!
btw, never doubted you can measure properly Badge, I use 1ml syringes marked to 100th of a ml, they are useless after a few hits anyway

I can't think of anything plastic hose is better than silicon hose for (Mistress probably could 8p).

It doesn't make sense that the tricomes would be water soluble, but I would foliar, they'd get fuzzy I was all WEWT I'm gonna keep spraying that! A week later, less tricomes... I'm a newb, I dunno wtf is going on, but I'm determined!

ps where the hell do you get 1ml syringes?

OK, almost every Pharmacy in England will sell you a bag of 10 x 1ml 'single use' insulin syringes (marked in 10ths and 100ths) cost around £1.20 for 10, now this will sound crazy but if they have none in stock for sale, they may have Blue Bags, Depending where you are, in my area it is called 'The Blue Bag' scheme, the chemist will give you a bag containing 10, it is part of the needle exchange
program.
Whichever you end up with the syringe is the same, you need keep the cap on, and using pliers/grips take the end off, the end pops off with the needle so you can dispose of it, you don't need it, and without, it fills easier and doesn't block.
One last tip, take a piece of clear scotch tape and carefully cover all the measurements, as these are single-use the ink is not made to last and will soon fade away unless protected, if you have no luck I will happily send you some de-needled to a safe addy, shoot me a PM if you like?

?...lost *mistress* here... please explain.
?... here too.
is this a foliar feeding issue/question/report?
all syringes should have 1ml dosage mark...

1ml (milliliter)=1cc (cubic centimeter)=1/5 teaspoon (5ml)

if water, should=1g... heavier if solution.

Hazy Lady... hope all is well.

enjoy your garden!

Yes thank-you I am ok now *m*

All the other "mistress/dom/goddesses I know can come up with very imaginative uses for latex, plastic hose, etc.

This 'Boost vs Molasses' thread led to a discussion about foliar feeding boost and/or molasses to save money on boost, which I do - and I wondered if anyone else noticed disappearing tricomes when doing so - of all my posts, this one seems to be in the right place 8p!

Your 'here too' had me hopeful you had experienced this as well, but I'm getting that you continue with the lostness.

Hazy posted she gets 1ml syringes, I have a 6ml (.2ml markings), and a 50ml (1ml markings), but have never even seen one that small (which means it must be marked in VERY tiny increments). This could come in handy for stuff like Superthrive, which recommends one DROP per gallon.

You give some really great info mistress, and all this is in the above posts, which you seem to read thoroughly - which makes me think you're just busting my balls 8p.

Thanks for the reply.

Here you go Badge, I took a pic of one, they are great when you mix 1/2 litre sprays or drops of Superthrive

 

[indifferent]

I ordered some Triacontanol, cytokinin and polysorbate 20, I'll have enough to share so when it arrives I can share some if folks are keen to join in the experimentation.

I've been researching ingredients for a lot of these exotic, expensive foliar sprays and bloom boosters.

One thing I have found that might work is chitosan. GH sell a spray called Chi that is just Chitosan and Grotek do similar products too. You can buy Chitosan from healthfood shops so I'm wondering if it's worth trying spraying a few plants with some?

Another find, as we know, nutrients have to be chelated for a plant to absorb them. Well, you can bull all kinds of chelated minerals in health food places thesedays. One that caught my eye was Chelated Potassium, it's Potassium Gluconate, but what I'm thinking is, chelated, it should be absorbable by the plant easily , just a thought.

They also sell Chelated Boron and I'm told chelated boron is key to big yields. In fact, it's said the only difference between AN Sensi A+B and Conoisseur is hyper-chelated boron.

 

[Dhude]

I can't obtain all of those ingredients in the UK, but I can put this lot together:

1. Seaweed Extract + Cytokinin - basically homemade Nitrozyme
2. Superthrive - it has vitamin b1
3. Growth Technology Hydrogen Peroxide - I have a bottle of this
4. Ecover liquid detergent - made from Aloe Vera, works as wetting agent
5. Grandma Enggy's Fish Stew - I already have a bottle, it's 2-3-3
6. Grotek Liquid Humic - not that similar, but might work
7. Can't think of an alternative to this

Do you think my list of substitutions will do the job?

I can recommend this: Advanced's Jumstart, a product sold as a spray for clone cuttings, contains a lot of what you're after and is my main foliar product up to about 3 weeks into flower. Note, I am not a fan of AN products, believing the company is too concerned with hype and flashy graphics (and 20+ product lines selling at a steep premium to others), but this is a great combination product and relatively inexpensive.

Has cytokinins, seaweed extracts, humic, fulvic, B-1 (the B-1 is actually a useless additive, but decades of habit/word of mouth ensure it's continued use by gardeners). I use the same bottle I mist my cuttings with as a foliar 1/week at the rec strenght of 30ml/L, and every other time I mix the foliar concentration into my std nute mix and foliar with that. I don't dilute the nute mix when I do this *(many people recommend 1/4 to 1/3 strength nutes when foliar feeding...I've used full strength with nothing but positive signs).

 

[Hazy Lady]

Thanks everyone

Thanks everyone

Not seen those for sale in the UK, what's the full name of those products?
What is in the foliar spray you are using? What benefits are you getting?

there is not much on these boards on this... but there is a lot to this topic...most foliar feeds do best ~7.0+, but lots of factors involved... including breaking surface tension of leaf surface, & chelating mineral applied...
the ph of the foliar feed affects which mobile elements get thru, etc... surfacants are also important...
enjoy your garden!

I have been adjusting the PH of my sprays (6.6 for seedlings 6.2 for mature plants) since reading *m*'s advice, I am in no doubt the uptake has improved, ( or is that in-take) I spray clones to get them fully green after rooting, It normally took around a week of 2/3 daily sprays for them to fully shine, since adjusting my PH I have easily taken 2 days off this, in order to show this improvement, I plan on spraying Rhizotonic on my latest cuttings to promote root growth, and Alg-A-Mic as the veg nutrient, I have 18 SSH cuttings almost ready, it is 9 separate females, 2 cuttings of each. I will give 1/2 unadjusted and 1/2 will be, we should then have the growth above ground and the roots to look at any diff's.
About 7 day's spray (day 1 starts as they leave the cloner) and judge @ 10 days, give the last few days spraying time to do it's magic.

Thank you *m* great advice!

there is no way i am spraying any thing on my flowering buds , def not before harvest , and by choice . any resadue will make for a lesser taste , rot , and all sorts of probs can happen .

each to there own and all ., just my 50p ... there are many organic things you can spray on the buds that are safe , but it dont mean they wont taste of the organic stuff . no ?

is it worth doing for you , i am interested , should never just shun a technique with out finding out more ...

I do agree, I wont go near a flower past 2 weeks myself, I had a little bud rot recently and that has made me more wary.
Ganga Baba - is it worth doing for you , i am interested , should never just shun a technique with out finding out more ...

Almost anything you can feed plants, you can foliar feed plants.

I use filtered water (~60ppm), unadjusted pH is ~6.5 (virtually all my nutes are acidic, so I typically leave it to the nutes to bring the pH down).

I always add 'Coco-Wet', an inexpensive all-natural, non-ionic sufactant (1/2 tspn *2.5ml* per gallon, 8oz for $6.99 - compare to DM Penatrator 2oz PER LTR mix, $29.99/1ltr!)
*This is to keep the solution on the leaves longer.

Maybe I should do a head-to-head comparison on these 8) !

I also use 'Spray-n-Grow', from the same company as Coco-Wet foliar once a week, not sure if I should start it now (second week since flipping to 12/12; or wait until after flowers show). I'm not a huge fan of giving males expensive nutes to die on, but they recommend it for the full life of the plant.
*This is an active micro-nutrient additive

My sprayer connects to different bottles, and I have 3 or so Foxfarm ltr bottles that I keep different foliars in. Typical mixes are:

Regular nute mix, at 1/3 dilution
*Great for sick plants, healthy plants like it too!

Canna Boost 4ml/ltr + Snow Storm Ultra 1ml/ltr
*fuller, denser fruit; ever notice on a cold dawn how plants (and your windshield) are covered in a fine, glistening frost? That's what Snow Storm Ultra claims to do for your plants - maximize tricomes)

Spray-n-Grow 10ml/ltr
*faster, more lush growth, denser, more flavorful fruit, shown to increase strawberry yield by 150% (manufacturer's claim, using strawberries with/without in side-by-side comparison)

Earthjuice MicroBlast 1ml/ltr
*very good micro-nute blend

*all mixes also have 1ml of Coco-Wet, or 2oz of Penetrator/ltr

Some benefits of foliar feeding are:

Quicker delivery of stuff to plants
More efficient - goes directly in plant rather than into substrate, into roots, into plant, apply less for same results.

Some drawbacks are:

Messy - the spray gets all over yer room - one reason I don't want to foliar molasses - flies love that stuff!
Lights - I don't want a cool mist hitting my uber-hot $100 bulbs - I have Cool-tubes around mine so I foliar from lights on to about 2 hours before lights off, buds or no buds
*my RH is <45% - a good foliar feed causes a spike in humidity, but due to proper ventilation it's not problematic.

[I've read that micro-droplets of water hitting the bulb can cause microscopic holes that leak evil *gamma rays or some shit; I don't believe it, as any droplets THAT tiny I think would be vaporized by the intense heat, and if water vapor, or water small enough to be suspended in air for any amount of time could damage the bulb, they would be recommended for <5% humidity environments eh?]

*I stole 'Gamma Rays' from The Fantastic 4; I really have no idea wtf would leak from a compromised HPS bulb

Check out my 'Nutes n Additives' album for pics - see for yourself what $389 worth of Canna nutes looks like! See why I think its worth it (because I'm a noob and can't make good cheap nutes myself yet, and this is easy:

5 gallon res, Canna A+B @ 15ml/gal each

Shake well, loosen the cap, squeeze the bottle - the overflow for the measuring cup is at 25ml, so there's not really any measuring, just squeeze it until the cup is full, relax, pour into res 3x DONE!
Cannazym only takes 10ml, so do 2 squeezes instead of 3 DONE!
Rhizotonic is 2ml, so I have to look at the thing and squeeze it up to the 10ml mark DONE!
Boost I foliar, PK 13/14 I squeeze into the cup until its a bit under the line that goes under CANNA on the front of the measuring cup (the bottom of that line is 6ml, the top 7ml, I'm shooting for 5ml as this isn't a recommended dose, but the plants seem to like a little extra PK and happy girls are always more fun than sad girls.
Canna says use 6ml PK/gal during the Gen 2*

The life cycle according to Canna:

Start root formation, duration ~1 week
Grow[
Vegetative stage - 1-3 weeks (fast growth)


Bloom:

Generative Stage 1 - Growth stagnates, first signs of flowers appear 1-2 weeks
Generative Stage 2 - small fruits develop, ~1 week
Generative Stage 3 - Increase in size ~2-3 weeks
Generative Stage 4 - Fruits increase in size and ripen ~1-2 weeks

Thanks again Badge, if you do any side bys? do let us see them eh!, good info

ideally, any foilar spray should be followed up, same day, or next day, w/ ph-balanced water. to rinse any residual build up... surfacants & stickers & spreaders & smaller droplet size & spraying undersides of leaves - all increase absorption & decrease residues...

if foliar feed nothing else, they get floralicious bloom ~weekly. up until wk 6... bottle instructions for foliar feed (1-2 tsp/gal)... 1/4 tsp quart/1liter.

thick & molasses-like, is easily washed away w/ water & h202 @ 15ml/quart/1 liter...

enjoy your garden!

Good points *m*, cleaning with (PH'd) fresh water is vital ime, thanks again

I just read the rumor about super-grow.biz is or could be owned by the US DEA. I have ordered from Michael 4 times over the last year and a half and no one has shown up at my door. I also have been a member of the Yahoo PlantScience newsgroup that was started by Super-Grow.biz. The individuals that makeup the newsgroup are hardcore gardeners from all over the world, Korea, Japan, US, Canada, Philippines, just to name a few. ... Very very rarely (only twice I know of) was MMJ ever discussed but one can get great information on Super-Grow's products by seeing what other users of his product are using it for and ..GA3, BA6, Fulvic and Humic Acids...etc..

I'm just saying that rumors can really hurt a person's business... I have every intention of continuing to order his products..

Yes, I agree! rumours can be nasty things, I honestly never imagined people would take it seriously but am sorry for any upset I may have caused you or the store, sorry cosmic.

I have ordered from Michael (super-grow.biz) 4 times in the last year, year and a half... He has good products at very reasonable prices. OH, no one has shown up at my door...lol

He also has a yahoo newsgroup called PlantScience which customers worldwide post their experience with his products and just kick around information with other members. Only twice that I can recall has MMJ been a subject and very little discussion followed.. The members normally discuss plants that I have never heard of ....many discuss vegetable plants and different foliage from around the world... I've had to discover the usuage of GA3 and BA6 on my own, i.e. just plain ole experimental.

As I said above sorry.

" cosmicnights
New Member

Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 2 "

LOOKS LIKE DEA TRYING TO MAKE PEOPLE FEEL SAFE WHERE MAYBE THEY SHOULD NOT

I just ordered from super-grow so if I disappear, you might be right! lol

There are a few products I like the look of and wondered if anyone has used them:

Triacontanol from super-grow.biz, I also bought some polysorbate-20 to be able to make a solution of it, this stuff supposedly increase growth when sprayed in veg and early flower.

Cytokinin, also from super-grow

AN Colossal Budblast - someone gave me a bottle last year, I just found it

Harpin - been getting some rave reviews from trade growers of flowers as a promoter of growth and branching

Phosphite - PO3, rather then the PO4 form which is phosphate, supposed to be more available to the plant and to have anti-disease and anti-pest properties. Become very popular in the pro horti world, I have found a spray called 'Uncle Tom's Rose Tonic that is 100% soluble phosphite and an NPK of 0:28:26, the pro horti trade are raving about this stuff as a bloom booster and flower size enhancer.

I really like the sounds of this recipe from dcyan's pages:

Quote:
For those that foliar feed not sure if you've all heard of this. But locating the stuff is half the fun! LOL lol

The Fearless Gardener

"Rocket Fuel"

Start with 1 Litre of water at room temperature with a PH at 6.3 in a misting bottle.

1. 5ml Growth Plus (Nitrozyme). Growth Plus is the main ingredient and the best kept secret in the industry. It is a very concentrated solution of natural growth hormones with cytokinin being the main one. (Responsible for cell division, size and quality). This product is dynamite just on its' own.

2. 4ml Supernatural Vitamin BI-Thrive. Contains the highest quality vitamin B1 combined with Allantoin (Natural Cell Proliferant) which enables cell division at lower energy levels while taking care of the general maintenance of the plant. Vitamin B1-Thrive will also guard against shock and stress during growth and transplanting.

3. 16 drops Hyper Oxygen. Hyper Oxygen is a 36% food grade Hydrogen Peroxide to remove any chlorine and increase the level of oxygen availability in water, improving nutrient uptake, and effective use in plants. Also destroys harmful bacteria and viruses.

4. 36 drops of Agri-2. Agri-2 is an extremely effective wetting agent ensuring plant tissue penetration, especially when misting plants with waxy or hairy leaves. Also contains an anti-foaming agent.

5. 20ml Fish Agra. A unique blend of hydrolyzed whole fish and plant protein extracts. It is then highly polished and screened through a #80 mesh to assure hassle-free spraying or drip applications. Fish Agra will feed your plants with a healthy supply of macronutrients, biostimulants and (N-P-K) rich in fresh whole Atlantic Ocean fish.

6. 30ml Earth Food. Earth Food is a 2 part product, first being a catalyst altered water, changing the structure of molecules in water. Your water will now form attractions with free electrons, helping better serve water's role as a transportation, cleansing and absorption mechanism within your plants circulatory system. Second, it contains activated Carbon, Amino Acid, organic trace minerals and other desirable ingredients obtained from Lignite (the fossil remains of plants grown 50 million years ago).

7. 15ml Earth Juice Escential Spray. Contains soaps, oils and juices all formulated from plants such as Wild Quinoa Bran, Hot Peppers, Eucalyptus, Rosemary, Lavender, Patchouli, Tea Tree, Orange Oil and Lemon Grass. In different parts of the world, these plants have been known for centuries for their ability to repel insects. When combined these pure ingredients give you an extremely effective insect repellent in a plant friendly spray. This product is truly an essential spray.

NOTE A: The above mix is then lightly misted covering the whole plant every 2 - 3 weeks and no more than once a week during active growth. Foliage feed before 11:00 a.m. Or after 4:00 p.m. It is important to note that University studies show foliage feeding to be about 10 times more efficient then dry fertilizers. Nutrients are immediately made available to the plant.

NOTE B: To use the above as watering solution dilute 3 to 4 times.

NOTE C: Only mix up enough to be used within 24 hours. Also, 5ml is equal to 1 teaspoon.

NOTE D: All of the above products are of the highest quality and at the same concentration as manufactured. Altering the above recipe is at your own risk.

Remember - More is not always better!
I can't obtain all of those ingredients in the UK, but I can put this lot together:

1. Seaweed Extract + Cytokinin - basically homemade Nitrozyme
2. Superthrive - it has vitamin b1
3. Growth Technology Hydrogen Peroxide - I have a bottle of this
4. Ecover liquid detergent - made from Aloe Vera, works as wetting agent
5. Grandma Enggy's Fish Stew - I already have a bottle, it's 2-3-3
6. Grotek Liquid Humic - not that similar, but might work
7. Can't think of an alternative to this

Do you think my list of substitutions will do the job?

Frequency of spraying is one thing I am mystified by, I read once every 2-3 weeks, is this enough? To me, that would mean spraying when i put the plants into flower then once again 2-3 weeks later. Seems like not a lot of feeding?

Hi Indi, wow thanks for posting so much info
This spray you speak about, on the 2 or 3 weeks, I cant say for the recipe you posted but Tri' for instance you need only apply 2 sprays the whole grow and with great results, so it is more than possible these infrequent applications are enough to get results, assuming the additive actually works.
I think a few of us are going to be looking at this with Triaconanol
looking at the optimum amount and the best time to apply etc, I ordered some last week and was going to use Polysorbate but after speaking to *mistress* and reading the reports she found I am certain acetone/solvent or cloraform is best, you need to 'cook' the Polysorbate in a microwave or safer a Bain marie, far simpler the other way.
I want to ask the same question about your spray as *m* below so will wait and see your answer for that, good to see you

tria is best dissovled in acetone or chloroform...

those are a lot of components for 1 solution... how can you evluate ea constituent?
or, how they will react w/ ea other?

enjoy your garden!

 

[*mistress*]

dont really prefer to a co, unless they intentionally mislead gardeners...
found several interesting points...

including advanc*d nutri*nts' excerpts...

So the reports in the literature describe how scientists have measured the potency of tricontanol at levels so minute it would seem impossible to prevent growth stimulation when even a tiny bit ended up contaminating the garden. Imagine handling a material that is effective at “nano-molar” amounts, which are at concentrations of 1x10-9 mol per litre ! If you touched any plant tissue with mere traces of tricontanol on your hands, it would be affected!

however,...
https://www.advancednutrients.com/advancepedia/product.php?productID=37

Tricontanol is also water soluble, and so we can extract it with hot water from alfalfa meal....

when every other description clearly states it is very insoluble in water. there is data+ on the pg, though...

Water solubility: Insoluble

seems that if place alfalfa (actual ordinary alfalfa teas [as there are reports of 1-tria found in regular black & green tea], capsules, pills, pellets, etc...) that eventually that 1 part per billion required to affect plant growth may be achieved...

also, there are many different reports of the application rate, but many only applied as foliar spray 1-2 occurences thru out entire season... w/ that same very, very diluted regime...

1-t is also found in apples, sunflower seeds, etc, etc...

it also has some inhibitors...

Inhibitory compounds, which have been reviewed... include long chain alcohols, morpholine (commonly found in distilled water from steam condensates), andphthalate esters, particularly from polyvinyl chloride tubing.

that is why they extract it from the raw sources & concentrate into pure form... the other long-chain alcohols present may inhibit its effectiveness...

@ Hazy Lady & indifferent...
there are other co's that make tria in a water soluble solution... specifically for plant growth regulation... if interested...
w/out dissolution in acetone, benzene, etc... & then emulsify w/ tween 20-80...

or...

just use regular alfalfa/alfalfa meal/capsules, etc...

btw, gh's gen org line (vegan plant food) bio thrive grow & bloom & root all contain alfalfa meal...

may be helpful to read actual research papers too... ca & k in plant may have effect on actual assimilation. along w/ other long-chain alcohols that may inhibit full effect. can get very science specific...

amount applied definitely is factor... >=... a quality digital/3 beam scale to measure actual pure tri would be ... on scale of 0.001-1ug/liter... (u=micro (gram))...
dont know if this thread good place for that topic?...

seems many just want results. whatever the science is...

enjoy your garden!

 

[Hazy Lady]

Final weights/findings & thoughts, bit of rambling, the odd thanks etc

Final weights/findings & thoughts, bit of rambling, the odd thanks etc

Conclusions side by side............... A lot of this regulars will know/have read some of this, so for anyone else jumping to the end, I will be repeating myself a little.

First, the final weights, this is the weight after 4 weeks dry/cure, the top 24 inches of each stem was taken, popcorn left out of the weights, only the cured bud. I just want to point out a couple of things relevant to the weights.
Although I tried to ensure all things were even, using similar sized, same age cuttings etc, I found allowing the plants to grow multi stems didn't help me at all, for instance the A's, the control, 1 plant grew 3 average sized stems but oddly 2 of these stems grew with less bud, more gaps than on other plants. And the other A plant, it grew one huge cola that luckily weighed around 20+ grammes, it had a pair of smaller than average stems, without the larger cola the A's would have been lower. All in all and balancing in my head how much bud is 'missing' and the extra from the one stem, I think I would have seen 2, 3 or 4 grammes more if it wasn't for this anomaly.
I should also mention the C - Molasses plants, they were smaller all round for some reason?, it could be just sheer chance that the C's ended this way, who know's? but as both C's were equally small I can't rule out this was caused by the Molasses?. This is one of reasons I will run this again. This is how they add up +/- 1g
Group A total = 68g
Group B total = 81g
Group C total = 72g
Group D total = 78g

So it seems that on this occasion the Canna Boost has indeed 'boosted' the crop, while this was a side by side comparison between the boosting effects (not the microbe feeding side organic growers use molasses for) of Blackstrap Molasses and Canna Boost, this was also in part to see what effect (if any) Canna Boost had on our favourite plants.
I have seen an increase in the final yield without a doubt, taking into account what I have just said regarding the control and would say on average you could hope to see an increase of around 5g on 30g plant, in % terms around just on 17%, not too shabby!, I am certain it would easily reach 20% when it's fully dialed in, in particular the amount of Molasses for coco, and the ratio of Boost to Molasses needs working out.

The weight is only half the story, it is also only half of the claim from Canna, they say the smells/tastes of fruits and flowers will improve!, again I have to agree with them, all through this grow, the 4 plants receiving Boost have had stronger richer scent's with a better range of aromas expressed. I have to say they have improved with the cure no end, the buds from these groups are slippy when broken open, they have a nice resiny, waxy feel, they smoke beautifully, full flavoured smooth smoke, the B's have a more fuelly scent but still the fruit is always detectable.

The D's have a more balanced flavour, they are just that much nicer in every way, I said before but it is quite similar to the Boost fed buds but with a sweeter, softer smell and taste, still full flavoured, the softening/sweetening has not taken anything away, far from it!. I can only say it is like it has cream added, a B bud with cream, and everything tastes better with a drop of cream, it is a warmer smell, does that make sense?, like vanilla! that is a warm scent, if that helps?.

I half expected the D's to be a bit firmer bud than the Boost only (B's), If you recall the C's - Molasses had the firmest buds, they cured quicker, got a sort of chewy quality as the buds parts fused together very soon after chopping, I assumed the sugar from the Molasses caused this? I imagined the D's being fed both Boost and Molasses would have the benefits the B's have - better size, aroma and taste - with this 'chewiness' the C's exhibit. I have not found this to be the case, the D's are very very similar to the B's. Softer than the other 2 groups.
The C's are the firmest of the buds.
The A's are the 2nd firmest of the groups and the B's and D's are really about equal as I just mentioned.

The C's are very nice buds and not lacking in anything apart from the size, the early curing I saw is no bad thing, it is a positive plus for those who can't keep their hands out of the cookie, sorry mason jar!, it hasn't changed much from the last time I spoke about the smokes and again leads me to believe the cure is indeed quicker, the buds are more sweet than sour, none of the fuel side but lots of fruit, leaves a very nice taste on your palette, I am sure this is from the sugar.

The A's despite lacking as powerful a smell or taste have still turned into some very nice potent smoke, I am in no doubt the A's are the least tasty but in a way it helped judge the various potencies, a couple of weeks ago I noticed after smoking an A sample I would end up grinding my back teeth as I came to my senses I said at the time it was just in front in the potency stakes. I think now I can say for sure what is what on this score, I found it easier to concentrate on the A high more than the other groups and think the lack of flavour has a lot to do with this, it just seems so much easier to focus on the high

B and D are more heady high's, I don't know if the additive can alter ratio's of THC's CBD's etc, but there is a definite difference, they were almost ready to go amber, the B'and D's and had been cloudy a while compared to the others, you would imagine the further along the more of a body hit but it isn't the case, or it is a stronger 'head high' still being cloudy overall? I do feel them(B&D) more in my head thats all I am certain of.

By now all the buds are full strength and about as strong as they are going to get, all make me bite my back teeth to a degree so none stands out as the A did, I have wondered if the A having less additives to break down got this side finished quickest, reached full strength first?
For me the C was the quickest to cure, or so I thought, it just felt done, looked cured after only 10 days or so, and I must say tasted further along too!, things just don't go the obvious way, like the D's I just spoke of, not having the chewy quality I found in the C's. All in all, they are bloody hard to keep track of when they are still changing from the cure but still pretty much the same bud!, but I think I am there.

I would say the D's are my favourite all round, whenever I have smoked these buds without taking notes for this thread, I smoked D buds. I did say at the start of this I was using both Boost & Molasses and wasn't sure if I needed to add either or any?, I guess there must be a certain degree of familiarity swaying me to prefer these buds as the mum grew on the D diet. But I am convinced all the more by these tests. I am sure the D's are the all round best buds, I would have to say the B's are next because they are very similar to the D's then C's in 3rd place, A's obviously last, the A's don't lose out on potency just not as nice to smell or taste, the leaf and calyx are 'thinner', dryer if you like, you do notice the twig more when you open one up.
Putting the B 2nd, If I had to choose in order of my own favourite smoke from the 4, I think I would choose a C's after the D's, the B is too like the D and I would want something a little further away, I do like the C's a lot, nothing wrong with Molasses as I see except the size issue, but as that could be improved and/or was just chance I had 2 small clones?, then it can be a great cheap addition to a growers nutrient stocks.
For this reason I would say both Canna Boost and Molasses can be of benefit, in the simplest terms ( my forte ) You could hope to add around 20% to the total yield without any other changes, using Canna Boost. Actually, If you check I use Boost @ around 1/2 Canna's recommendations so maybe I am underestimating?.
You can improve the scents & tastes of your flowers quite dramatically too, it really does improve the final quality of the bud, they have a waxy, resiny feel, they feel smooth when broken compared to an A that feels twiggy, sticky by comparison, I am in no doubt about this.
Using Molasses certainly helps bring the sweet side of these buds at the least, it has produced a very different bud than the control, both are quite firm buds but taken apart they are black and white, the control A's you just run your finger nail backwards down the stem and calyx and leaves pop off, clean as a whistle, it is impossible to do that with a C, they are stuck together in a way you either pick it apart or use scissors, it doesn't stick to you but to itself. The Molasses seems to sweeten the smoke, or maybe highlights the sweet part is better, I don't taste much fuel in these buds and there is a real fruit to these, very nice, very full bodied smoke, they don't lack for missing the fuel side though.

Boost in combination with Molasses, this has turned out to be the best of both worlds, these plants have every benefit of the Boost with the sweetening effect of the Molasses on the final product, I said earlier I need to find the ideal Molasses amounts and none more so than for the D's, I had imagined these to be the best yielding group and wonder if extra Molasses could up the weight?, I will know after a test or two more, the D's are only a few grammes light anyway and have a nicer, rounder, creamier taste that makes up for a little shortfall.

If you prefer it in a table?
Best Yielding
1, Group B - Canna Boost
2, Group D - Canna Boost & Molasses
3, Group C - Molasses
4, Group A - Control

Best Bud,- best scent/taste/smoke.
1, Group D
2, Group B
3, Group C
4, Group A

So finally.....................
There really is quite a difference in the Boost fed buds smell and taste, however, if this was the only improvement I think the cheaper Molasses would produce different but equally improved flowers, on this occasion on the sweet side I couldn't say if this is always the case with Molasses, If you want to improve the yield and the taste it looks like Boost is the way to go. ( or a.n.other Booster)
I believe a blend of the two, Booster & Molasses really could work wonders. I am sure 17% is the least you should expect and as I said I am using 1/2 recommend doses, you could get a lot more?.

If you have a grow pretty well dialed in and getting regular even results it could be well worth trying, I would make sure everything is growing right first or you could waste a lot of cash though. All things considered, if I was to sell my flowers, I could say the Boost and the Molasses have more than paid for themselves.

Thanks for reading .

 

[*mistress*]

@ Hazy Lady...

end of thread?
does this conclude the thread, for all intents/purposes?

lobby moments for the experimental forum... this thread should have garnered enough attn for such a sub-forum......

enjoy your garden!

 

[Hazy Lady]

Thank-you

Thank-you

dont really prefer to a co, unless they intentionally mislead gardeners...
found several interesting points...

including advanc*d nutri*nts' excerpts...
however,...
https://www.advancednutrients.com/advancepedia/product.php?productID=37

when every other description clearly states it is very insoluble in water. there is data+ on the pg, though...


seems that if place alfalfa (actual ordinary alfalfa teas [as there are reports of 1-tria found in regular black & green tea], capsules, pills, pellets, etc...) that eventually that 1 part per billion required to affect plant growth may be achieved...

also, there are many different reports of the application rate, but many only applied as foliar spray 1-2 occurences thru out entire season... w/ that same very, very diluted regime...

1-t is also found in apples, sunflower seeds, etc, etc...

it also has some inhibitors...

@ Hazy Lady & indifferent...
there are other co's that make tria in a water soluble solution... specifically for plant growth regulation... if interested...
w/out dissolution in acetone, benzene, etc... & then emulsify w/ tween 20-80...

or...

just use regular alfalfa/alfalfa meal/capsules, etc...

btw, gh's gen org line bio thrive grow & bloom & root all contain alfalfa meal...

may be helpful to read actual research papers too... ca & k in plant may have effect on actual assimilation. along w/ other long-chain alcohols that may inhibit full effect. can get very science specific...

amount applied definitely is factor... >=... a quality digital/3 beam scale to measure actual pure tri would be ... on scale of 0.001-1ug/liter... (u=micro (gram))...
dont know if this thread good place for that topic?...

seems many just want results. whatever the science is...

enjoy your garden!

Thanks *m*, this getting ridiculous, I suppose in the end we will need to find out ourselves, great finds. Yes very interested in the one already in solution, I am prepared to try any versions we can come up with
I was planning on weighing the vial, or rather the contents, and repeatedly 1/2 the amount until it is impossible to go smaller, count the amount of divisions then take it from there, as long as the first weight is correct I should have a good idea what I end up with no matter how minute?, dissolve that smallest part and dilute to taste

 

[Hazy Lady]

Stayin' Put

Stayin' Put

@ Hazy Lady...

end of thread?
does this conclude the thread, for all intents/purposes?

lobby moments for the experimental forum... this thread should have garnered enough attn for such a sub-forum......

enjoy your garden!

No No *m*, I hope to keep this going at least till we have a home for our experiments, I would like to see how the folks already doing bits go on too, I certainly won't close it, I am glad you pointed this out, ta

 

[Greyskull]

nice update hazy lady

way to stay with the thread and keep on top of things... that gets difficult with life and all

i am especially stoked for your results, showing in detail how boost works... even at only 50% reccomended dosage (which is what i like to give). its expensive sure, and imo definately not for those who aren't working in a dialed setting (theyd be better off spending time and money dialing in environment and learning growth traits first... they arent gonna see/notice the difference anyway).. but for those of us that kind of understand how our environments work and effect our favorite ladies - boost takes things to another level for sure. it makes te grow more fun to watch and the flowers more fun to burn. mmmmm

thanks for the show!

 

[indifferent]

This is one of the best experiment threads I have ever seen, way to go hazy lady, and thanks to everyone else who's contributed, there is a huge load of good info in this thread to be digested.

I think the next experiment should be something along these lines:

A: Boost + Molasses
B: Boost + Molasses + Foliar Boost
C: Boost + Molasses + Foliar Triacontanol
D: Boost + Molasses + Foliar Cytokinin

I've found a new booster that could be the next big thing as it's based on phosphites rather than phosphates, it's all the rage in the pro horticultural world right now, but virtually unheard of in the general gardening world. There is only one product for sale in the UK so far, apart from the pro horti products that come in big drums and cost a fortune. This phosphite spray has an NPK of 0-29-26 and is said to increase blooming like nothing else.

I'm also looking at the food additive lecithin, which is cheap to buy in granular form, it is 90-odd percent phospholipids, which are a form of phosphorous, and I am pretty certain manufacturers like AN, Grotek and others are putting phospholipids in their bloom boosters. Dutch Master mention 'phospholipid technology' in the blurb for their MAX Bloom.

A short list of the substances I would like to experiemnt with in the coming months:

Chitosan
Triacontanol
Cytokinin
Minamino Liquid Amino Acids
Chelated Boron
Chelated Potassium Gluconate
Phosphite
Fulvic Acid
Liquid Castille Soap
Phospholipids

There's a lot of work to be done trying all those out. They can all be bought cheaply and are all to be found in various bloom boosting products.

 

[Scrogerman]

Nice Job'

Nice Job'

Great results Hazy,
bouncing.!!! Think i'm gonna stager and increase the dose wk to wk from half to start(20ml) up to full(40ml). i havent decided just how much to increase weekly, but i'm sure it'll be on a full dose of B/A in No time!! after reading your results. Not yet sure if i'm gonna go with the mollasses now, but i may, we'll have to wait n see!
A very informative thread with positve & interesting controls & results.
Respect to all who now lead me on a new path of discovery!!! Especially you Hazy
'Be-Lucky All' - 'Peace & Respect'.............Scroger'
............................................"Stickytastic".............................................................. 'Like My Buds'

 

[Dislexus]

Whoa this thread has gone beyond itself. It hath become epic. Lots of great info...

What about Thidiazuron (TDZ)? This scientific study found it to be the best cytokonin inducer for cannabis: http://www.pakbs.org/pjbot/PDFs/41%282%29/PJB41%282%29603.pdf

But maybe its some chinese plot to give Western potheads cancer.

 

[haze crazy]

Bravo, well done Hazy Lady!

 

[gmanwho]

Hazy , For all i know, i have read some really crazy nonsense here before, and for all i knew it could have been just as simple as a teenager hearing what his friends said an believing him or her. Just had to get it straightened out cause i do believe super grow has some great products, and realitivly cheap too. Just had to straighten it out...

I think greyskull said the conclusion best. ( an he has tool lyrics in his sig, maynard jesus, right on)

i agree totally with using bb, i have noticed improved results in the visual department, and final size. Witnessed how a stressed plant laging will go into overdrive almost.

good stuff. an thanks for taking the time to write all this up. It means alot to many..

B-safe

 

[Badgermonkey]

Now is when we discuss the results! How exciting! Grats to Hazy! More after I have some time to digest all this. 8)

 

[hilbie]

it seems like molasess rules your guys life, its the most talked about thing on theese forums, all ive learned is that u dont flush with it, the 17percnet increase is little hard to swallow much like too much molasses itself, but i use it, as i have a bottle i bought for personal health a while back.. dam the molasses talk though, lets thank the stater of this thread n move on.

 

[*mistress*]

it seems like molasess rules your guys life

us garden grrllz too?

no. molasses does not rule the life of *mistress*...

it does seemingly chelate some elements & stabilize ph, to some degree.

its the most talked about thing on theese forums

how did you come to this conclusion?
by randomly sampling all active threads for the term 'molasses'?

all ive learned is that u dont flush with it

and nothing else?

the 17percnet increase is little hard to swallow

where is a 17% increase in y*eld attributed to molasses supplementation?

dam the molasses talk though, lets thank the stater of this thread n move on.

move on to what?

what suggestions does member hilbie have for improving plant physiology? for influencing their responses to external stimuli?

what novel approaches does hilbie apply to enhance the flowers in the garden?

enjoy your garden!

 

[Scrogerman]

At it again hilbie, bit of a flamer you aint ya! lo
Hey M.