Quicker Cloning?

[_Dude]

I'm here to eat my words, I got into a flap here a good while back stating how trying to speed up clones is a waste of time, yadda. Well, now I'm up against it because I need to figure out how to speed up my clone times. It usually takes mine about 2 weeks to show roots, and I want to get it down to as quick as possible.

Trying to stay under F limits you see.

I clone in a DIY bubbler. It's a Rubbermaid tub with air stones glued to the bottom. Right now I just take cuttings (from lower part, since I trim that stuff off anyways) with a razor, trim the fan leaves and stick them in the holes in the lid. The stems are trimmed so they hang just above the water line.

I have some rooting hormone in a box in the cabinet but I'd like to hear other ideas. I have some aquarium heaters lying around, will water temps make a big difference? Some kind of dome? It would be a pain in the ass to add one but I would if the old hands told me it would help much.

 

[FreezerBoy]

I do the DIY bubbler with lower cuts also and get the same results. The few times I used the top of the plant, which I try to avoid, I saw roots in 5-7 days.

 

[_Dude]

Somebody on another clone thread says the GH Rainforest roots clones the fastest he's ever seen, 5-7 days. That's what I'm talkin about! How do I get down to 5-7 days? I'm a DIYer but I'm willing to spend the cash on this phase if I can get it down to under a week.

FreezerBoy:

Ahh. So I need to take top cuts? What kind of temps do you have, air and water? I don't have good insulation in my grow area, and I have it cut off from the central heat and AC, so this time of year it gets chilly, especially during lights off. Should I be thinking about making a tent and trying to warm it somehow?

 

[FreezerBoy]

I keep an aquarium heater in the tub to maintain 75-80ºF in the water. Room temp swings between 65-90 depending on time of year. I run it in a C13 type cabinet so it retains what little warmth the single 23 watt cfl pumps out. I run the light 24/0.

Personally, I don't like cutting off tops, I'd rather wait. I only suggest it as a way to do it with what you have on hand. If you like to keep tops and want 5-7 days or less all the time, some of the aero guys (ez cloner etc) claim 3-5 days.

 

[NBtrichgrower]

Id build a new cloner , and change to aero style with misters , I see first signs of roots on some strains at 5 days This is just my opinion. A few years back i tried a bubble cloners a couple different times. I didn't have any luck and a there are a few factors with them i find a pain in the butt. Dont mean to offend any bubble cloners, just my experience and opinion

 

[Scrogerman]

Where's your level??

Where's your level??

Hey Dude,
I noticed you say you are keeping the water level below the bottom of the stem-Bad Move imo, try keeping the stem submerged about a couple of inches", Should do the trick!!
BTW-You can take cuts from anywhere,"i've found" rooting times variably different(not much in-it).Keep res temps 75-80f and reduce temps daily once you have a good root set-ie,-80f-78-75-72-70-68f-where it will/should stay(apply h2o2 if required). If i'm wrong & you said something else then accept my humble apologies.(No i read ya first post & its my understanding that you do not submerge your stems-what a diff that will make!! yeah get them submerged and you'll be flyin,Scarify too, really helps them root)
Peace......Scroger!!

 

[Hydro Cabbage]

I agree with NBtrichgrower; i use a aero cloner and i get roots in about 5 -6 days. Oh and i haven't lost a clone yet since going to aero. Their are some really good instructions at http://www.stinkbuddies.com/downloads.htm if interested.

 

[_Dude]

NBTrich, don't worry about offending me, I don't get all wrapped up in my methods. The only thing I know about my bubbler for sure is that it was easy to build and it's easy as hell to use and gets me consistent results. If something else will cut me down to under a week I'm bout it.

Scroger, no I don't submerge them. The way I learned was to use the mist from the bubbles to make the cuttings "thirsty" for the water they "know" is down there and thus sprout roots faster. If you say submerging them is the way to go, I'll try it next time, thanks for the tip.

What do you mean, scarify? The thing where you strip the outer layer of the stem off? A thread would be handy since I've never tried that.

Hydro, thanks for the link. I'll have to consider going aero I guess.

Thanks for all the advice guys.

 

[Old time lurker]

I've gotten in the habit of adding some hormex to my bubbler...seems to help me get roots in 5 to 7 days.

 

[Scrogerman]

Hey Dude,
Yeah i can get roots in about 7-10 days in a bubbler-np!. Submerged! The way you do it is aimed at aero, and i'm thinking you just dont have the right moisture levels relying on popping bubbles, Although doable, 'imo' keeping the water level below the stem is aimed at Aero and not meant for Bubbling. I'm certain you will have faster results submerging the stem. Tempreture managment of your solution is paramount!
Scarify=Try running/scraping the edge of a razor down the stem,(2" or so up from the base tip of your cut) rather gently just enough to expose some of the inner cortex/fleshy bit. I do this every 90 *degrees, you see the roots come pissing out of the place you scarred. Some people like to split the base of the cut but i find this method effective.!

Ps if you want to encourage rooting try lowering light levels and placing your fl's? light further away, do this after about 5-6 days.-Hope this Helps'
Peace.............Scroger' 'your gonna luv it!!

 

[wickedpete66]

What do you guys think of adding h2o2 to a bubble cloner? i know quite a few people add it to their aero cloners. I have a 5 gallon bubble cloner. How much h2o2 would you add to that

 

[_Dude]

Damn, I've got most of what I'd need for that project already! I love PVC. I'd just need to buy a new Rubbermaid, the sprayers, the collars, and some PVC glue.

Do the net pots take medium, or do you just throw the cuttings in there naked?

 

[Scrogerman]

What do you guys think of adding h2o2 to a bubble cloner? i know quite a few people add it to their aero cloners. I have a 5 gallon bubble cloner. How much h2o2 would you add to that

As a Cleanser most definatly, insurance, added O2, look at it anyway you want, it's worth adding-at the right time imo, you dont have to use it straight away do you, i would after i see roots.
use correct ratio's i add 5 mls per 10 ltrs at 17.5 % strenght(I think)50% of that at first. some use more or less, you'll wanna check and follow a known hydroponic products strength like the one i have just mentioned!

Peace.............Scroger'

 

[wickedpete66]

Damn, I've got most of what I'd need for that project already! I love PVC. I'd just need to buy a new Rubbermaid, the sprayers, the collars, and some PVC glue.

Do the net pots take medium, or do you just throw the cuttings in there naked?

The net pots are used to hold the neoprene collars. Cut the bottom of the net cups off. It will be easier to remove the clones without damaging the roots.

 

[_Dude]

The net pots are used to hold the neoprene collars. Cut the bottom of the net cups off. It will be easier to remove the clones without damaging the roots.

Guess I shoulda RTFM.

Funny thing is I just looked at my notes and I don't need to speed up cloning at all. I had a brain fart but now I realize have more room under the lims than I thought.

I'll be sticking with my bubbler for now (at least now I know I should be submerging the stems). I hope someone else finds the thread useful. I might build one of these down the line anyway.

 

[Scrogerman]

You dont need the net pots to hold the neoprene collars-this is just wasting nets sorry!!
The only time you would use a net-pot is if you are keeping it that way, after they have rooted. Ready to put hydroton in then after they have rooted(carefully)!

 

[NS775]

My personal observations...

*Keep stems slightly above water line - Bursting bubbles send spray all over just like an aerocloner, so there is no need for a true Aero style cloner (unless your going to do a true aero 50 micron type cloner)

*Slightly warmer environment speeds up clones slightly, but fouls up res much quicker requiring res changes more often.

*Cut clones from lower branches. Tops dont seem to clone as well as lowers for me

*Cut clones from new green growth. The older the plant matter u are cloning the slower it seems to go

*Cut clones so stems contain many node points, and place the base cut right under a node. Roots seem to form more easily right around node points.


These are my observations. I don't know how much faster you can really get clones to root because you are still working within the limitations of nature.

Also, I have experienced a strange phenomenon which I haven't had time to investigate/replicate yet. I notice sometimes in my 3 bubble cloners that I have seen clones struggle to root further down the stem but the section of stem covered by the neoprene puck literally EXPLODES with root growth, I mean so many roots you can barely see the original stem. I am not sure what is causing this.

 

[FreezerBoy]

You dont need the net pots to hold the neoprene collars-this is just wasting nets sorry!!!

True that. Loose roots in a net pot can become torn and damaged. Fill the cups with Hydroton or lose the cups and use a collar. Use of a collar will require you to support the plant above the res to keep it from falling into the tub.

*Slightly warmer environment speeds up clones slightly, but fouls up res much quicker requiring res changes more often.

*Cut clones so stems contain many node points, and place the base cut right under a node. Roots seem to form more easily right around node points.

Also, I have experienced a strange phenomenon which I haven't had time to investigate/replicate yet. I notice sometimes in my 3 bubble cloners that I have seen clones struggle to root further down the stem but the section of stem covered by the neoprene puck literally EXPLODES with root growth, I mean so many roots you can barely see the original stem. I am not sure what is causing this.

Water only fouls if you put something foul in the water. I dump water between batches but, that's it.

Too much plant material slows things down. 3 nodes is sufficient. Two above ground with well trimmed leaves and one to bury. Unrooted cuts can't provide the transpiration needed to support large stems and leaves without the use of domes. Dome weaning can be a major cause of death. Clone without a dome and you wont have to wean.

The collar observation is most interesting. Wonder what's going on there?

 

[Scrogerman]

I've seen this before, it makes sense to me that the moisture/humidity immediately around that point of the collar is higher and therefore encourages rooting, notice it only happens Res side of the collar!! Interesting!!
As for leaving the stem above the water-line, this is why its taking you 2 weeks to root as apposed to my 7 days+ using the same system. However, in Aero its much more saturated at this point with the spray nosils spraying directly at the stem anyway! try submerging n see what happens!
My cut point for my cuttings is right through the middle of the node too, not below it, cut on a 45* angle straight through the middle of the node - to expose more of the inner core, which is also why i scarify! G'Luck....
Peace.......Scroger!

 

[_Dude]

I cut mine 31/1st and they started showing roots yesterday, so not too bad for low maintenance style, about 11 days. I'm going to try scraping and submerging half of them next time to see if it helps.