6k vertical show... Need opinions on my design.

[mikeross]

I started this exact thread in the vertical forum but their really isn't to much activity over there. I hope I am not breaking any rules duplicating this thread... just figured I might get more replies in this area.

I wanted to start this tread to get a little more knowledge from members with some vertical growing experience. I am in the process of starting up a new room/location and was dead set on a 4.8k flood and drain table setup, sealed room with co2… Simplified the system was 4-4x8 tables under 2-600’s on a mover, 48 plants each table in hopes to set up a perpetual system harvesting every 2 weeks.

This was the plan for my next grow… http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=138915

The above was the planned setup and I researched all aspects of that setup. Even did a trail run over 1 4x8 table with 2 600’s + mover. Yielded 34zips, first run with 48 plants thrown @ 12/12 @ 12”(16day veg).



Anyways, That was the plan until I stumbled upon Krunchbubble’s 6k vertical setup. I am loving these vert “wall of green” setups. After doing a little more searches and reading about a few nice size vert setups I am thinking of changing everything already planned and start the plan for a 6k setup. I was hoping to start this tread to get some insight to my questions. I am good at searching for the answers to my questions but unfortunately the vertical growing section of this website is kinda lacking. I really feel that vertical is the future in growing. I plan to have this room up and running for awhile so I want to build something very permanent.

There are many very knowledgeable members on this site who go out of their way to provide helpful insight. I know I have had a lot of help in my initial plans and those members know who they are. I am hoping we can all brainstorm within this thread to build a beautiful 6k setup. Thanks to all willing help with some of my questions… very much appreciated.

 

[mikeross]

This is a quick sketch I did to try and explain the room layout. The room is about 19' long and 10' wide, exact dimensions depend on how wide i decide to build my shelving... Room height is 8'.

The room is divided in half with a doubled sided shelving unit. From the pics you can see I plan to make it about 5' long division with plants on either side of the wall. All other shelving is 8' long except for the two areas that share the wall with the door to the room. There will be a 36" metal door to enter the room... The two shelving areas that share the wall with the door will be around 7' long to allow space for the door. Kinda confusing to explain but I hope the picture helps. I plan to run 2 gallon pots but open to all suggestions. This will be a perpetual setup... I plan to harvest one side a month. Rooted clones will have up to one month to veg. I really hope someone can give me an idea as far as plant numbers in this setup with a 1 month veg... same goes for pot sizes.

 

[mikeross]

The above dimensions are just a quick sketch and the actual dimensions are sure to change. I need to figure out how deep each shelving unit will be before calculating exact lengths of everything.

I decided to duplicated the design of Heath Robinson 4x6 room and apply it to my 8x8 room x2. I know every vertical grower have seen these pics.

Awesome Photo

 

[mikeross]

I am hoping the above gives everyone a pretty good visual of what I intent to build. I do plan to fully document everything and post a detail journal to help others who may have similar questions that I had.

Were do I start lol... so many questions.

I planned to run 3k worth of lights for each 8x8 area... 6k total. Should I run all HPS bulbs or would a 1000mh in the middle be a better option?

Do you suggest sticking with 3 rows of shelves or would 2 be better. I have followed 2 journals where the growers first run was with 3 rows of shelving but second run both growers decided only run 2 shelves. Each never came back to explain why the change. I assume they space the distance between shelves with the 2 shelve setup and throw in bigger plants. So which option would you suggest... 2 or 3 rows of shelving.

Air cooled vs open bulbs? This grow will be in a basement which has a steady 60*temps all year round +- a few degrees. I have never run anything but air cooled hoods so i am not really sure how the temps are in a open bulb setup. Keep in mind this is a sealed room with co2 so exhausting the room is not an issue. What size A/C will I need to run this system bare bulb? Is bare bulb worth it or should I just use cooltubes? I have no issues air cooling but If I could do away with aircooling by using an A/C it might be worth it... KISS. Opinions please

I was set on using 100% coco in the flood and drain setup I had planned but with these drippers maybe hydroton might be a better option. Anyone who has runned a similar setup please share your experience with either medium you used. Its either gonna be 100% coco or 100% hydroton.

I know its a lot of questions but hoping someone can help me out or point me in the right direction. I did a lot of searches in icmag but there is limiting info about vertical style growing.

 

[Dr.Dank]

I like this man, I don't know crap about vert but it sure call my attention looks real neat.

 

[mikeross]

I like this man, I don't know crap about vert but it sure call my attention looks real neat.

This is what caught my attention and made me really think about making the switch to vertical grow.

http://strainguide.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/heaths-vertical-racks-strainguide.html

• floor plan 4 ft by 6 ft
• 4ft growing height
• 2 600Watt lights hung vertically side by side
• 7.5 litre (2 gallon) square pots, filled with hydroton
• each site is fed by an individual tube, no drippers that clog
• 3 rows vertically (2 rows after changes)
• 84 sites with 3 row config(56 with 2 rows by my math)
• fed from a 45 gallon reservoir with a 7000 litre per hour pump
• gutters catch runoff and drain to a secondary reservoir
• smaller pump on float switch empties secondary reservoir into main when full
• feeding : 3 times a day for 15 minutes each
• achieved 1.5 grams per watt running from rooted clones (damn)

achieved 1.5 grams per watt running from rooted clones (damn)
​

 

[somebody041]

hey mike, its obvious you've done lots of research into the matter. i don't have anything to contribute other than my opinion that you should definitely include some MH along with the HPS to provide a more balanced spectrum.

i hope you continue to post your progress with the thoroughness you've already displayed.

 

[Dr.Dank]

yeah thats sick I need to take my time and read it all but looks very clean how I like it. I usually run 4 plants per 1000w with 1lb to 2 1/2lb on soil since I can't have that many chicks in my garden due to laws fucking you in the ass for plant numbers so i must keep numbers to a minimum 2 plant to 4 per 1k but how Id love to be able to built that maybe I'll give it a shot sometime thanks for sharing mikeross

 

[mikeross]

yeah thats sick I need to take my time and read it all but looks very clean how I like it. I usually run 4 plants per 1000w with 1lb to 2 1/2lb on soil since I can't have that many chicks in my garden due to laws fucking you in the ass for plant numbers so i must keep numbers to a minimum 2 plant to 4 per 1k but how Id love to be able to built that maybe I'll give it a shot sometime thanks for sharing mikeross

Yeah no worries... I actually was trying to get some comments and opinions on my setup. Maybe this thread can also help you with any questions you have... feel free to post them up if they have any relevance to the above vertical grow style.

 

[krunchbubble]

wow! never seen that setup before! interesting!
as for the bulbs, maybe go with the sunpulse mh's, thats what heath robinson used.

i went with 2 shelves in my vert's, i should of went 3 rows.

if the rooms are that cold, maybe you wont need a cooltube, but when i tried without cooltubes, i got bad wind burn from all the fans.

100% coco works great! adding some coco croutons help out a bit with drainage.

 

[mikeross]

Thanks for the comments guys. I am still doing a lot of reading and will return with more questions later I'm sure.

 

[mikeross]

wow! never seen that setup before! interesting!
as for the bulbs, maybe go with the sunpulse mh's, thats what heath robinson used.

i went with 2 shelves in my vert's, i should of went 3 rows.

if the rooms are that cold, maybe you wont need a cooltube, but when i tried without cooltubes, i got bad wind burn from all the fans.

100% coco works great! adding some coco croutons help out a bit with drainage.

Yeah this setup looks very clean... I wish he went into a little more detail on how everything was put together but I can figure it out.

If you were to build your room with 3 shelves I assume you would space out the bulbs to position each bulb in the middle or each shelve? Any idea on the spacing between the 3 shelves considering the room is 8' tall?

Any difference in yield with the cooltubes vs bare bulb?

I have never used a MH bulb before but I assume I would place it in the middle... hps x mh x hps.

what model A/C are you running in your 6k vert room?

Lastly, beside the 3rd shelf is there anything you would have done differently in your 6k setup if you had to plan it out all over again?

 

[mikeross]

I quickly did a redesigned to the sealed room to incorporate light movers. Because of the movers I made the width of the room slightly shorter and made the length a few feet longer.

I think the picture will give a good idea of what i'm trying to build. Each side of the room would be 7' wide by 10' long, making the entire room 14'x10'. If you factor out the foot prints of the racks it would give each aisle a 5'6" width x 9'3" length of space. Given the width or 5'6", Every rack in the room will be 33" away from the bulbs. The end of the light rail would stop 33" from the 5'6" racks and pause. The string of lights would only have to travel 45" up and down the light rail. Not sure yet how long they would need to pause at each end. Also not sure if its better to have the lights move as fast as possible or maybe a slower speed?

** I am not sure exactly what the optimal distance the plants should be. Would love come comments on light distance. Also not sure how fast the light mover should be traveling.**

Because of the light movers I would not run cool tubes in this setup and would just run open bulbs. There will be a lot more circulation in this room. Each aisle will have 2 16" fans centers in the middle of the aisle on the floor pushing air up towards the bulbs and plants. There will also be 1 16" fan for each aisle mounted on the wall pushing air down the length of each aisle... 6 16" fans total.

** do you guys think the fans are overkill... Would like recommendations of fan sizes for the wall fans and fan that will be under the bulbs**

Room with have a can150 with a 12" max fan setup just to scrub and circulate the room. I think I would place it at the end cap of the two back to back racks in the center of the room.

**Not sure were to mount the co2 generator though?**

** With the above info what size mini split system would u suggest. I was thinking a 16k mr.slim would work.**

Only issue with the mini split is having a hvac guy coming over to flush the linesets. I am not worried about the initial setup but more worried if it breaks down and he needs to come back.

I remember Lazyman mentioning a a/c system were the line sets are precharged... ** any info on this would be great**

I would really lover some comments good and bad about the above plan.

 

[whatissixbynine]

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[mikeross]

The original thread I made is in the vertical forum. This is the current topic of discussion in the other thread. Would love some feedback on this idea... Lazyman?

Copy and pasted from other forum...

Hey mike, If you have those hanging bulbs moving back and forth over the fans, their going to be swinging around like a trapeze artist.

You could try hanging one fan with the bulbs at the bottom blowing up, this way the fan will be moving with the bulbs, but it might get squirrely at the ends when it stops and turn into a light bulb weed eater. Unless you hang the bulbs and fan with some of those long screws, so it will be a rigid structure moving instead of dangling wire.

I like the light mover idea, its a sure winner. I've never heard of people who bought one and didn't like it.

That actually sounds like a good idea. I have honestly never seen anyone try it in all the research I have done thus far.

**I would need to locate a fan that is somewhat light weight. I wonder if I could place the string of lights in a cooltube with a 6" vortex connected to the bottom of the cool tube, pushing air upwards. The top of the cool tube would be open to the air will just escape out and back into the room.

I plan to run the slowest light rail 3.5 motor they offer. I don't think this will sway back and forth at all really when the motor stops at the end of its run... the 3 rpm motor moves pretty slowly.

I plan to secure 4" eye hooks on either wide of each cooltube, 6 eye hooks total per 3k lights. I would then sting some metal chains connecting to each eye hook on their way up the motor of the light mover. The metal chains would be secured to 2 4" eye hooks on the light rail motor. I am not sure how I would secure a 6" fan to the bottom of the cooltube but I am sure I can rig somthing up.

The light rail 3.5 can handle 33lbs. Not sure how much everything will eight but that might be strong enough... if not the LR5 can carry 90lbs, also comes with a slow moving 4rpm mover which is also a good rpm for this setup.

 

[mikeross]

Upon further thought I think I might try to eliminate the cooltubes and figure out a way to just hang the fan under bare lights.

 

[mikeross]

I know I am going to do 1 month veg and seriously considering 1
2-gallon pot per linear footage.

I would not have any plants in the corners. I figured I would run a total of 138 plants, 69 plants in each area.

I am sure I can get 2oz per plant from both my ak47 and white russian cuts. That would put total harvest of entire room a little over 17lbs. If I harvest one side per month that's 8.5lbs per month... not bad off 3k worth of lighting.

The above figures would achieve 1.28grams per watt... very nice IMO. I guess this is my goal to reach. I feel its very possible with the above setup.

Opinions on plant counts? With one month veg my plants would be about 18-20" tall going into flower. Once the room if up and running it won't take much to figure out optimal veg times and plant heights.

 

[Brazilianfire]

Mike: I am almost finished building a setup just like heaths. Any questions, fire away on pm. Also, I have built many of these, they do give you a lot of coverage. I build them out of wood. I found that 4 4x4 wood racks are good with a 600 watt hps coliseum style. Thanks.

 

[mikeross]

After one more day of research I have once again decided to change the room up a little. I decided make everything smaller to fit the plants 22-24" away from the bulbs It will give me room to make a little mechanical room and have my res, ballast and controllers on the outside of the room. Would give me a lot of walking space within the room to train, plus it would make the room look so clean. I figured I should bring the plants a little closer to the light if I am gonna run a light mover and extend the room out to 9'.

The room is actually going to be 8' tall, with 3 shelves roughly 12" deep. I am going to veg these plants out for 1 month. I figure they will get well over 20" in that time, my plants would finish at about 40" give or take. If I make the width of the room 6' minus 12'x2 for the shelves that would give me 4 feet of aisle space meaning the plants would be 24" from the light... This is also not factoring that the plants are placed on the shelves at an angle. I would assume that the plants would stick out well into the aisle before growing upwards, If I know my plants I would assume that the actual distance from the bulbs would be more like 16-18", shouldn't have any burn issues because of the light mover. I plant to tie and train everything. Gonna pull the bottom growth of the plant downwards and train the tops upwards, The top shelve plants would be trained into the ceiling and the bottom shelve plants trained to the floor... Should give me a nice even wall, shouldn't even be able to see the face of the shelves or the actual pots. Everything will be watered with drippers. Planning to run 2 large reservoirs outside the room, 70-100gal... gutters will be under each plant all linked to flow excess water to the bottom shelve... A 2" flexible hose will connect to the last downspot and go outside the room into a 100gal reservoir. 396gph pump will be placed in each res just to circulate the water/nutes. Another larger pump will be hooked up for the drippers and will be set on a time. Still not sure of the larger pump size... probably something in the 1200gph range?. I am hoping I can go the whole grow without changing my res... just doing a add back method using floranova @ 8ml per gallon with floralicious plus.

3 gallon posts with 100% coco or possible some coco croutons on the bottoms of each pot. Gonna experiment with hydroton and see what I like more.

Gonna run the first grow with 69 plants each side, 138 site total, and then modify the number for the second grow once I see the growth rate. I have a feeling the the plant numbers will be a lot lower once the first cycle runs through the room... Don"t know exact numbers until I get one run finished.

Lazyman, Krunchbubble care to comment on the redesign?