How are those clones not secure? Hundreds of people are growing it besides the threat to their freedom. What situation do you see arising that's going to change this fact before legalization sweeps the globe?
What Male to use in a cross?
- Thread starter groady-ho
- Start date
ahhh wow,,,V,,,,,,your makin me blush,,,
now i just need everyone to agree.....imo every clone is subject to its hormones,,,an expreshion can easly be changed by blocking just a few of them,,,,,dont you agree V?........female to male is just hormone thrapy an its easy too,,,not to mention every clone works in the same way,,,,
i agree,,,,,presevation is relitive to climate,,,be it political or whatever,,,,,seeds are natures ultimate bankstatment......i want the right account
isa!,,,no tax,,mother fukers
now i just need everyone to agree.....imo every clone is subject to its hormones,,,an expreshion can easly be changed by blocking just a few of them,,,,,dont you agree V?........female to male is just hormone thrapy an its easy too,,,not to mention every clone works in the same way,,,,
i agree,,,,,presevation is relitive to climate,,,be it political or whatever,,,,,seeds are natures ultimate bankstatment......i want the right account
isa!,,,no tax,,mother fukers
i support docs crew,,,,,,,,,,,i do what i do for people like them,,,,they all seem like my kinda people,,,,id be happy to call them my friends
nvisionary: Do you not think if you spent your life growing out 100 at a time you couldn't end up with some sort of genetic gain by the time you croak? Didn't you happen upon a novel leaf mutation that could be useful while being a pollen chucking seed hack?
I hate Tom's quote there because it has the word 'absolutely' in it...but I too believe SOME individuals could accomplish SOME goals while only growing 100s at a time. After all, the 2000 number that you reference is based on maintaining 99% of the alleles in a wide population of hemp. I don't think you HAVE to grow out 2000 at once to take a good look at the genotype of SOME individual clones. But post legalization I wouldn't say it could hurt. 
Figured I had to argue if everyone else is too pussy.
^^^^your getting better and better G
oh come on now GitT
possibly the best way to answer that in your case is to refer you to one of your own posts - where you kindly gave me some info on sweetest sative
clones need attention every day or so and they need a maintained environment. seeds can be put in the freezer, or even some non grower's freezer, and they will be ready to go for years with no maintainance whatsoever.
i really hope you are right about legalisation sweeping the globe, but i wont discard all my contingancies just yet thanks. we've had the rug pulled out from under us already here in the uk recently. politics are a fickle bitch.
V.
Fair enough, but it's unlikely that all the hundreds of gardens which maintain Cheese will all be destroyed. Like I said Cheese is RELATIVELY safe. At the same time I'm not arguing against backing anything up. I told Rick to make S1s, just to stop there.
And damn, you had to bring up my lost loves
And damn, you had to bring up my lost loves
P
Paco
the cheese is everywhere. It is safe. Rick conserves nothing. i wish he would stop trying to make seeds like he knows what he is doing.
Nvisionary,
On fishing.. Last week it was, FISH ON!! A couple of days ago it was all OK because real BIOLOGISTS gave you the green light, and now you understand it all but don't like it. What I am implying, is that you -the fisherman- according to your own reasoning are facilitating all that erosion - you have caused it, and you are helping to pay the bills to continue it. So, would you care to explain here how you are any different than the seed buyer etc that you are oh so fond of slamming?
On C. AM.. I am not on vacation, I have a home here. My only point is that I am well enough positioned to call GROSS EXAGGERATION when you say that the entire globes gene pool is integrated - or anything close to it.
On numbers.. I have posted it over and over. Are you listening or are you just waiting for people to finish writing so you can continue with your rant? If it's a numbers game, then some of these guys will succeed, and you have no idea who's who on that point.
On Selfing etc.. You ask me for pics though I have already stated that I am just getting started, building a library of candidates. Forgive me if I am not moving fast enough for you or living up to this Tommy-hackem-up-Hill shit you wanna hang on me. This phase, the assembling of superior phenotypes is one that does indeed require larger numbers, and this does take time in todays environment. Later stages, genotyping via progeny testing, developing families for evaluation/ranking, test crossing to locate superior combinations etc are not as demanding and are well within reach of many folks here.
I am not at your call to write a book on the subject (it's a long subject and you know it) to suit your immediate wishes. If you doubt that I can do it better than what we have now (I'm not sure myself, but I will try) then you can just follow along with everybody else who cares to and see -not that it's your call in the end- but you are welcomed along with everybody else to question me on any of it along the way. I document my work and thoughts behind it as I go.
I have been open pollinating for decades, this is nothing new to me. Everything I am currently offering comes close to complying with the type of move/shift you'd like to see. You are only hammering me because I am here to question some of your thoughts on some of this. If you were to approach with a bit more tact and speak more generally I'd be more comfortable backing you up on much of it. You won't go there though, you want to deal in absolutes, and with all due respect, nobody -not even you- has the juice to do that. I hope this was written clear enough for you.
Respectfully,
Tom
On fishing.. Last week it was, FISH ON!! A couple of days ago it was all OK because real BIOLOGISTS gave you the green light, and now you understand it all but don't like it. What I am implying, is that you -the fisherman- according to your own reasoning are facilitating all that erosion - you have caused it, and you are helping to pay the bills to continue it. So, would you care to explain here how you are any different than the seed buyer etc that you are oh so fond of slamming?
On C. AM.. I am not on vacation, I have a home here. My only point is that I am well enough positioned to call GROSS EXAGGERATION when you say that the entire globes gene pool is integrated - or anything close to it.
On numbers.. I have posted it over and over. Are you listening or are you just waiting for people to finish writing so you can continue with your rant? If it's a numbers game, then some of these guys will succeed, and you have no idea who's who on that point.
On Selfing etc.. You ask me for pics though I have already stated that I am just getting started, building a library of candidates. Forgive me if I am not moving fast enough for you or living up to this Tommy-hackem-up-Hill shit you wanna hang on me. This phase, the assembling of superior phenotypes is one that does indeed require larger numbers, and this does take time in todays environment. Later stages, genotyping via progeny testing, developing families for evaluation/ranking, test crossing to locate superior combinations etc are not as demanding and are well within reach of many folks here.
I am not at your call to write a book on the subject (it's a long subject and you know it) to suit your immediate wishes. If you doubt that I can do it better than what we have now (I'm not sure myself, but I will try) then you can just follow along with everybody else who cares to and see -not that it's your call in the end- but you are welcomed along with everybody else to question me on any of it along the way. I document my work and thoughts behind it as I go.
I have been open pollinating for decades, this is nothing new to me. Everything I am currently offering comes close to complying with the type of move/shift you'd like to see. You are only hammering me because I am here to question some of your thoughts on some of this. If you were to approach with a bit more tact and speak more generally I'd be more comfortable backing you up on much of it. You won't go there though, you want to deal in absolutes, and with all due respect, nobody -not even you- has the juice to do that. I hope this was written clear enough for you.
Respectfully,
Tom
nvisionary
Member
Gitt,
You COULD grow out 100 at a time for the rest of your life, selecting ~10% of the population that meets your criteria(if its even available), and thats better than not growing at least 100 at a time and selecting ~10%, but you still are not doing your selection in one environment, so selection on the Population is skewed. This reduces efficiency of your selections. But yea,.ok..thats better than whats happening now. Its still too much to deal with for 999 out of a thousand typical cannabis breeders, so whats the point, really? Thats not going to happen on any kind of necessary scale.
Yes I have a variety I made, from thousands of plants and 18 generations of mating and selection, over 10 years time. I was able to do that because it had a novel mutation and was quite unobtrusive. That is the only way it could have been done. Even then it was a hell of a lot of risk that I wouldnt recommend to anyone.
And no, I didnt make it from a hackjob that I made. haha. The pure seeds that started the program came from australia, through Cannabis Culture.
Doc? i didnt check your link. nope. lol. Im no longer interested in what you have to offer this kind of discussion. You have shown me enough.
... even if you had dug up one pic of a large population, it would be the only one anyone you know could come up with, so I would still not be impressed with that.
p.s. you never corrected anything I myself wrote for the OG FAQ. lol. You may have done some work correcting things on there, I dont know. From what Ive seen, you may have screwed the thing up..
I didnt do it forever. And I didnt write the entire breeding FAQ, it came from the posts from within the 'community', and so almost every post on breeding was stoner logic that needed to be fixed.
You COULD grow out 100 at a time for the rest of your life, selecting ~10% of the population that meets your criteria(if its even available), and thats better than not growing at least 100 at a time and selecting ~10%, but you still are not doing your selection in one environment, so selection on the Population is skewed. This reduces efficiency of your selections. But yea,.ok..thats better than whats happening now. Its still too much to deal with for 999 out of a thousand typical cannabis breeders, so whats the point, really? Thats not going to happen on any kind of necessary scale.
Yes I have a variety I made, from thousands of plants and 18 generations of mating and selection, over 10 years time. I was able to do that because it had a novel mutation and was quite unobtrusive. That is the only way it could have been done. Even then it was a hell of a lot of risk that I wouldnt recommend to anyone.
And no, I didnt make it from a hackjob that I made. haha. The pure seeds that started the program came from australia, through Cannabis Culture.
Doc? i didnt check your link. nope. lol. Im no longer interested in what you have to offer this kind of discussion. You have shown me enough.
... even if you had dug up one pic of a large population, it would be the only one anyone you know could come up with, so I would still not be impressed with that.
p.s. you never corrected anything I myself wrote for the OG FAQ. lol. You may have done some work correcting things on there, I dont know. From what Ive seen, you may have screwed the thing up..
I didnt do it forever. And I didnt write the entire breeding FAQ, it came from the posts from within the 'community', and so almost every post on breeding was stoner logic that needed to be fixed.
nvisionary
Member
jesus christ you wrote something clear!!!
I didnt mean to say that every single seedlot in the world was mixed yet.
I meant to say that there is not any NEW, USEFUL or IMPORTANT genetic resources left to explore from drug accessions in this world. ALL the genes you can come up with at your C.AM location are already IN the genepool. All the genes for flowers, seeds, stems, yield, potency, aromas, height, adaptive ability, resistance,etc... are already ALL IN. All the pot breeders in the world have already gathered the genetics that are useful for marijuana, and integrated them. Youre just getting to wherever you are now.. This had all been done before you got there.
what you are going to collect is a REPEAT of what is already in the genepool.
I didnt mean to say that every single seedlot in the world was mixed yet.
I meant to say that there is not any NEW, USEFUL or IMPORTANT genetic resources left to explore from drug accessions in this world. ALL the genes you can come up with at your C.AM location are already IN the genepool. All the genes for flowers, seeds, stems, yield, potency, aromas, height, adaptive ability, resistance,etc... are already ALL IN. All the pot breeders in the world have already gathered the genetics that are useful for marijuana, and integrated them. Youre just getting to wherever you are now.. This had all been done before you got there.
what you are going to collect is a REPEAT of what is already in the genepool.
Gene-weaver
Member
the cheese is reletively safe gentlemen!
i will point this out though!!! if rick wants to do something who are any of you to judge him? if he wanted to throw himself off a cliff would you judge him and tell him he cannot? this is his life not any of ours and with it he may do as he pleases!
hey rick and doc hit me up fella's i really need to see if any of you are good with graphics!
i will point this out though!!! if rick wants to do something who are any of you to judge him? if he wanted to throw himself off a cliff would you judge him and tell him he cannot? this is his life not any of ours and with it he may do as he pleases!
hey rick and doc hit me up fella's i really need to see if any of you are good with graphics!
Yeah I would,, (slap him n tell him to behave himself..lol) ,, although the parallel in working a line of selfed cheese plants isn't quite as drastic,, or as harmful to rick's health.. lol
Personally we dont see selfing as a way of 'preserving genetics for the future' ,, otherwise everyone would be blowing all these feminized breeders off.. lol!
nvisionary,, i pointed you towards the work of a really mindful breeder in Growdoc. If you dont wish to benefit from some of his experience and skill in breeding from large numbers of seedlings,, (for medicinal aim),, then that's your loss. You can lead a horse to water, but....
FRT got Cali. overgrowing haze genetics again,, FREE,, ask about ,, stush!
Peace n love
Really? If you make all these selections indoors exactly how different is this environment going to get. Mine's been relatively the same for 3 years now. How big of a deal are you making of the most micro-environmental factors?
Oh, so there's Australian breeders who use OP and grow out thousands of seeds at a time? Or did you only count them as pollen chuckers AFTER you gathered up some useful germplasm from them?
Also, on the subject of Tom acquiring Landrace germplasm. How is it that you maintain that our poor genepool is eroding at an alarming rate but also maintain that ALL of the interesting and beneficial genes in the landrace that Tom's currently looking at are in the pool. How is it that all the important traits are perfectly integrated and we're not losing any? What traits ARE being lost if it's none that came from C America?
no need to right a book tom
,,slowly but surly your all writing the best book ever,,,im in it too....G`s there,,,but your top dog in my story,,lolOBSERVED TRAITS,,,,,,,GENETIC VIEWPOINTS,,,,,SPACE,,,,,,LIGHT,,,EXPRESHION,,,,IMPRESHION
you guys are the best
an btw.....^^^^^^,,,that post you made on selfing is like a jack in the box to me,,,,,,,,,,,are you making an indoor hybrid for TargetedEnviroment??? .........what Targeted TRAITS ae you thinking of incorperating tom??........im very exited if ive got this right??????
every plant/line has the ability to be something it once was not,,,,,,the whole concept of Penetrance is laughable imo,,,
evoloution is like light,,,its not always balck and white,,,,,,,,we are not seeing all the colours that all our availabe sources have to offer ...
think outside the box
its all about viewpoint
![wheel_spectrum.jpg[IMG]](http://www.candymana.co.uk/oldham_project/pictures/wheel_spectrum.jpg[IMG])
evoloution is like light,,,its not always balck and white,,,,,,,,we are not seeing all the colours that all our availabe sources have to offer ...
think outside the box
its all about viewpoint
sorry,,,now i look a lil stupid
OP will not = presevation
OP = A WIDER GENETIC VIEWPOINT
OP = A WIDER GENETIC VIEWPOINT
If you're bringing as many genes as possible from one generation to the next OF COURSE THAT'S PRESERVATION! Rick, you post some dumb shit; OFTEN. If you can look at the "wider genetic viewpoint" wouldn't that be because you preserved those genes? You can't see what's not there, so obviously you preserved those genes into the next generation. I cannot fathom how you don't understand this. My goodness I don't know what to do with you. Forget everything you know, start over. Never talk about penetrance, evolution, target environments, or OP until you learn them all properly. The only way I can see you doing that is to start from scratch. I don't know what's going on in that head of yours
