Experts: Smart grid poses privacy risks

[anonymousgrower]

I don't even give a fuck anymore. I'll protect my plants whether they're legal or not, fuck cops.

they wanna kill my babies, I'll show em the same damn courtesy

 

[Skip]

I think it was in the book/movie 1984, where the main character gets awakened by his TV "monitor" cause he oversleeps.

This is exactly how they can tell if you're "oversleeping" or doing anything they don't like, or using an unapproved appliance, etc.

Now that they passed a law restricting the use of power-hungry HDTVs, they could actually see who is using those and maybe add an extra fee for those who do, just like they're going to give a lower rate/rebate to those who cut back in peak times.

So this is what 1984 really looks like. Big Brother monitoring everything you do 24/7.

Fit a certain pattern, raise the red flag, and they're at your door. Conform or get assigned to a "re-education" camp.

Seems every bit of new technology has an upside and a downside...

 

[SB7]

Given that in BC most areas have enacted "safety inspection" legislation, this worries me. No warrants required, automatic reporting of power usage to municipalities and everyone with a smart meter by the end of 2012.( BCHydro SMI ) Of course let's not forget Bill C-15 about to become law thanks to our Federal Right wing Asshats , and there will be no place to hide. Uhhmm ya, what's that 12 hour cycle of electricity usage ??? That's for my 200 Gallon Saltwater Aquarium ( I really do have one ) There's moon cycles, Light cycles, tide cylce yada yada yada... that's my story and I'm sticking to it .

 

[pipeline]

Thats how ya do it, sb7, saltwater tanks are very similar in power usage to climate controlled- growing rooms...

I have the feeling LED lights will be the thing for future indoor growers in an increasingly threatening world...

Be sure and check out the ICMAG advertiser: http://hydro-grow-led.com/blog/

 

[Darkstarlive]

Soon you won't be able to take a shit without the utility companies knowing how many squares of toliet paper you flushed.

What ever happened to privacy??
Are people so willing to lay down and be manipulated?
Under the guise of conservation these smart meters are supposed to help you save money/energy but they don't think twice about them being a complete monitor of your life.

Scary.
What's to become of us?

Peace..

 

[Centrum]

okay, you guys are getting silly and pulling out tin foil hats.

So people who run there computers <- Plural! eating up power 24/7 are growing!
People who have Dehumidifiers in there basements are growing.

People who continually waste electricity, are growing!

You guys are missing the point!
Your television cannot communicate through the plug that its a television, they can only assume its a television running. Your fridge Does not communicate with the meter and say hey i am a fridge, they can only assume its a fridge.
The whole damn thing is all assumption about what your using.

If the electric company was out to Pinpoint growers, it wouldn't be hard to say everyone on the block uses $80 a month, one house is using $250 you must be growing.

Just because they have the ability to show spikes on a graph of when electric is being used and how much your using does not mean your ability to blend is still not possible.

Put the Tin foil hats away.

 

[Purple_trees]

The latest logical statement in this thread^^^ Thanks Centrum for relieving the paranoia +rep

 

[Skip]

okay, you guys are getting silly and pulling out tin foil hats.

So people who run there computers <- Plural! eating up power 24/7 are growing!
People who have Dehumidifiers in there basements are growing.

People who continually waste electricity, are growing!

You guys are missing the point!
Your television cannot communicate through the plug that its a television, they can only assume its a television running. Your fridge Does not communicate with the meter and say hey i am a fridge, they can only assume its a fridge.
The whole damn thing is all assumption about what your using.

If the electric company was out to Pinpoint growers, it wouldn't be hard to say everyone on the block uses $80 a month, one house is using $250 you must be growing.

Just because they have the ability to show spikes on a graph of when electric is being used and how much your using does not mean your ability to blend is still not possible.

Put the Tin foil hats away.

You should read this, important info about the Smart Grid & Privacy:
http://www.californiaprogressreport.com/site/?q=node/7177

And no they don't have to "assume" which appliances you have. Appliances leave a "footprint" that is unique to that type of appliance. Certain appliances like fridges cycle off and on all day long.

And as I said b4, any appliance running 12/12 off-on or on 24/7 will be clearly visible.

And yes, soon appliances will actually identify themselves (down to the serial # - which can be tracked back to the store where they were purchased) and be controllable remotely (via an IP#). And once that happens it might be possible for police to shutdown a grow remotely themselves, assuming something involved with the grow is a "smart appliance".

 

[Guest]

a bit off subject but not, a tidbit or such

Off the grid sustainable power imo is the most efficient use of equipment purchase any indoor grower can purchase for many reasons. When a problem arise, solutions are make.

Good point all in this topics. This is just the thing, equipment is sold as legal throughout the entire world. Even if communicate to grid "i am a ballast, i am a yada yada" who to say is not a indoor veggie garden or tropical utopia of indoor tropical variety in a cold northern climate?

I have not a side chosen on this topic as of yet, is not so much black and white. Keep in mind it/sustainable energy is good for our mum earth. just a few quid .02

 

[Skip]

a bit off subject but not, a tidbit or such

Off the grid sustainable power imo is the most efficient use of equipment purchase any indoor grower can purchase for many reasons. When a problem arise, solutions are make.

Good point all in this topics. This is just the thing, equipment is sold as legal throughout the entire world. Even if communicate to grid "i am a ballast, i am a yada yada" who to say is not a indoor veggie garden or tropical utopia of indoor tropical variety in a cold northern climate?

I have not a side chosen on this topic as of yet, is not so much black and white. Keep in mind it/sustainable energy is good for our mum earth. just a few quid .02

Good points there. Staying off the grid means they can't read your electrical usage. And yes, one could assume other things are growing under grow lights besides marijuana. And I'm sure we all know ppl growing veggies under lights, right?

Actually I did have peppers and herbs growing under lights last year (just an aerogarden), so it's not so far fetched.

However those BIG grows with massive lights are going to be hard to pass off as home veggie gardens. After all if you're paying $1000+ a month for electric, those are gonna be some expensive veggies!

 

[intlplayr]

They've been using software to analyze data on a basic level using technology available today (not even smart meters) gained from electrical companies in some municipalities that have lobbied for it in BC now for some time. Here is an article describing the process and teh approach that Surrey, BC is taking (several other BC municipalities have jumped on board as well):

Click here to read the bullshit privacy breaches...

 

[Lazyman]

Good points there. Staying off the grid means they can't read your electrical usage. And yes, one could assume other things are growing under grow lights besides marijuana. And I'm sure we all know ppl growing veggies under lights, right?

Actually I did have peppers and herbs growing under lights last year (just an aerogarden), so it's not so far fetched.

However those BIG grows with massive lights are going to be hard to pass off as home veggie gardens. After all if you're paying $1000+ a month for electric, those are gonna be some expensive veggies!

Yeah I was about to set up a 16kw getdown, but I think even an 8KW flip would be glaringly obvious on the graph. Fuck.

My mom said she had heard that it will let you compare with your neighbors too, I don't have any citation but that's my next step. If your neighbors can see your graph we're fucked.

 

[intlplayr]

Keepin a close eye on LEdGirl and the other test LED units she gave out to mods for exactly this same reason...

 

[Lazyman]

Click here to see when PG&e will install smartmeters in your area, mine is in May!

http://www.pge.com/myhome/customerservice/meter/smartmeter/deployment/index.shtml

 

[Scrogerman]

Hey People,
I see a Whole 'New Era' of meter fiddling. There's always a way-out, i'm sure someone will invent something or other to mask our-little prediciment, someone probably already has.
Be-Lucky........Scroger
Ps - 'Calling All Inventors', 'Get Inventing & Make it foolproof while you at it!!....Peace!'

 

[J. Greenstein]

At what wattage would you guys recommend going flip/flop? I'm thinkin at 2k and up wouldn't be a bad idea?

 

[Lazyman]

I've been thinking about it, I don't think a flip is always a good idea, there are drawbacks:

You have to run one room during the day, not fun in a heat wave
Power is more expensive during the day if on E6 rates
One room will always be dark and harder to maintain
AC and ventilation systems need to be split
CO2 is harder to run when split up ($$$)
Watering/irrigation/reservoirs will probably need to be split
You have to buy a flip relay

Besides, on a smartgrid, I don't think having a continuous high power draw is any less suspicious looking than a 12/12 or 18/6 light cycle. If I did a 8/8 flip room, one would SURELY have to wonder:

What the HELL do you have plugged in that draws 8KW 24X7? I can't think of a thing that draws that much power or runs constantly. With 16kw I can say I run a big pottery kiln all night or something, I guess. Neither is perfect, but is the flip so much better that it's worth all of the buillshit in my short list above? I am starting to think no.

 

[Skip]

With 16kw I can say I run a big pottery kiln all night or something, I guess.

Yeah, right! And of course you won't mind showing the police your kiln then, right?

You know what you can do? You can get solar panels or a wind turbine. With the smart grid you can get PAID to add electricity to it! So if you generate your own electric you might even come out with a credit every month. With your own electric source, you will probably throw their readings way off.

Solar power in the day time, wind power when it's windy, your draw on their power will vary a lot more each day. There may be a way for them to segregate your input from your draw and keep separate track of each, I don't know. But in any case your overall draw on power from the electric company will be far less, and it will be less likely to raise any flags.

I just had a funny feeling I'm going to be starting an Alternative Power forum soon...

 

[Lazyman]

Yeah, right! And of course you won't mind showing the police your kiln then, right?

You know what you can do? You can get solar panels or a wind turbine. With the smart grid you can get PAID to add electricity to it! So if you generate your own electric you might even come out with a credit every month. With your own electric source, you will probably throw their readings way off.

Solar power in the day time, wind power when it's windy, your draw on their power will vary a lot more each day. There may be a way for them to segregate your input from your draw and keep separate track of each, I don't know. But in any case your overall draw on power from the electric company will be far less, and it will be less likely to raise any flags.

I just had a funny feeling I'm going to be starting an Alternative Power forum soon...

Oh c'mon Skip, like anyone is dumb enough to talk to cops, let alone show them anything? If they have a warrant they aren't knocking anyway.

Solar panels big enough to offset that much usage runs about $40K after rebates, there are several good sites on it. Maybe down the road (when I'm not renting) but I think that size PV array would raise some eyebrows itself.

Wind power is a joke, zoning permits to install the requisite towers are a bitch even in the country, and damn near impossible to get in any urban area. Wind turbines are also very expensive, output very little power, and do not produce electricity consistently.

If you don't believe me, check out what kind of wind setup you need to offset 7000KWH a month and get back to me. You'll be in shock at how bad it is.

 

[Guest]

Sustainable energy sources such as wind, solar, and hydro electric all have advantage and disadvantage depending on geographic location. IMO the initial investment compared to rate of return (much higher for this hobby than a traditional application) make for a great benefit!

Application of the system paired with the geographic are paramount, but to call wind power a joke slap in the face to many. Especially mother earth. Cost is relative to time and demand, sustainability not even comparable. A combination of sustainable energy tied into a backup imo is no comparison to paying for juices. Just on an economical plane, not to mention the piece of mind from being off grid and clean/green energy. Then again, economics are like polls. They can be skewed in any favor. IMO long run, sustainable energy is the only choice. Not just for this hobby, but for survival if one wish to have affordable energy for the future.

What are the most re-occur cost for most indoor grower? IMO electric/juices.

Not to mention sustainable energy become more and more better for return on investment the more power that one draw. Not follow you lazyman, usually I agree with 99 percent of you statements, hehe. Just not this one.