How many Keepers do you find in a Pack??

[Sideshow-Bob]

funny you found a keeper in the sensi stars... i once grew a pack, got lucky and got 9 females out of ten...and didn't get a keeper - but i just don't like that strain... i'm sure for a real indica-lover there would have been at least one keeper

but this question in general is very difficult to answer, some people open 100+ seeds when they select, some people just take clones from a random seedplant - it all comes down to what a keeper is for you... if you know what characteristics you are looking for you can start the research on which strains you want to grow - if you then select the strains carefully and grow at least 25 seeds i would be amazed if you can't find a plant that is good enough for you to keep it... but as always luck plays a big part as well - you can get a better plant growing one bagseed than starting with 100 seeds of a good and stable strain - if you are a real lucky (wo)man just keep on searching...and i'm sure you'll find your girl in the end... wish you better luck next time

 

[nvisionary]

solarz ive grown many many many kinds of seeds in my 23 years of growing pot. I KNOW seeds.

Some were internet hackjobs for money, some were gifted hackjobs from internet friends who are probably now in the seed bizz, some were my own hackjobs (and Ive made my share for sure), some were clones friends cut from internet seed hackjobs. Some were seeds I made from friends' hackjobs...you see..they are ALL hackjobs. Because thats all there is. NOBODY is legal to do proper breeding on a proper scale. The few keepers I do have are one-in-a-million plants.
I also have people all the time trying to slip me their fancy new clones from modern hackjobs and I tell them NO THANKS, Ill let You chase that dragon... Im done trying your seeds of diminished quality. I have seen the majority of genetic diversity in the drug genepool so I know what Im talkin about. Shit ive probably spent half of my 23 years of pot growing fucking with hack seeds. Theyre junk and serve no good purposes.

How long have you been growing hack seedjobs?

You can get free seeds from just about any pot smoker. The free seeds you can get from ANYONE are going to be the same quality as the ones you would buy. They are all produced with the same poor methods.
You can also get proven clones with a little asking....its not hard to do unless youre the unibomber or the Grinch.

 

[Centrum]

For the prices we pay you should get a pack of 50 seeds period.
Any breeders wanna chime and say that's bullshit I am listening.

Its all about money, which is fine, i am all about money too, but i make things right with people and i know when i am being unfair.

As far as finding a keeper, I agree unless you buy several packs the chances of finding a good keeper, is all about luck.

Which is wrong, Who the hell is breeding this shit?

They either are so scared of giving a stable release because someone might steal there hard work, or they are full of shit and only found a good mom and made of bunch of seeds with her and that's what your growing.

I know there are a lot of trusted names in the business but i cant manage to find where the trust established, with the growers or with the dollar?

I think its time to establish a base and start rating genetics and breeders.
Based on repetitive scoring system that allows for fair user based scores. The whole thing is rated and bias against skill and if you get shitty results the first response is your skills are lacking.

I know this is a waste of my time and energy to even type this up but it needs to be said.

Until then you always have the option to buy several packs of knock offs and begin your search in a realistic direction for reasonable prices.

Good luck.

 

[solarz]

Well, my friend, i'll first start off by saying i wasn't puffing my chest out at you...so you really didn't have to defend your knowledge of seeds/hackjobs (at least not to me...). Now i haven't been growing for 23 years...so i won't venture to say that i have. However, that is why i asked the question i asked...because i am relatively new to this...and don't know everything there is to know (nor have i ever claimed to).

Your statement about a random seed in a pot smokers bag being the same as a "breeder's seed"...well i know enough about growing to know that is totally fucking insane. Now i will agree only to the extent to say that there is a *probability* of finding a better plant from a random bagseed than a "breeder's seed"...but that's about it.

Also, please explain what something other than a poor method would be to create/breed proper seeds (that would satisfy you)??

solarz

solarz

 

[solarz]

For the prices we pay you should get a pack of 50 seeds period.
Any breeders wanna chime and say that's bullshit I am listening.

Its all about money, which is fine, i am all about money too, but i make things right with people and i know when i am being unfair.

As far as finding a keeper, I agree unless you buy several packs the chances of finding a good keeper, is all about luck.

Which is wrong, Who the hell is breeding this shit?

They either are so scared of giving a stable release because someone might steal there hard work, or they are full of shit and only found a good mom and made of bunch of seeds with her and that's what your growing.

I know there are a lot of trusted names in the business but i cant manage to find where the trust established, with the growers or with the dollar?

I think its time to establish a base and start rating genetics and breeders.
Based on repetitive scoring system that allows for fair user based scores. The whole thing is rated and bias against skill and if you get shitty results the first response is your skills are lacking.

I know this is a waste of my time and energy to even type this up but it needs to be said.

Until then you always have the option to buy several packs of knock offs and begin your search in a realistic direction for reasonable prices.

Good luck.

I think that the trusted breeders established this respect trust thru their actions more than anything (and of course the genes speak for themselves). I for one don't kiss ass...to no one, however, i MUST give Tom Hill his due respect. In the short time i have seen dude back and posting on these boards, i can't count the time where he's offered to make a situation right, when it was the FURTHEST THING FROM HIS FAULT. He has even offered to gift genes/seeds to people to do "test runs" knowing the end result will probably be the seeds dying off (due to the nature of the "test").

So to me...this is where he gains my trust/respect. It shows he doesn't give a shit about the money, and is more in it for the love/interest of the plant/hobby. Every post the guy makes is honest, and to the point. He doesn't feed you hype, nor does he beat around the bush about shit. I've never seen the guy "dodge" a question, or flat out not answer. Once again...over time, this will build a person's trust within him (as much as you can have over the net).

solarz

 

[zenoonez]

Lol there are people in this thread bitching about genetic exclusion and narrowing of the gene pool and then those that are screaming about finding 4 phenos in a pack of seeds. Seeds are just that, seeds that give you a shot at finding your grail plant. The reason its a grail plant is because it takes so long to find. Great plants are rare but you could always breed your own so you don't have to buy seeds.

 

[nvisionary]

You can have UNSTABLE seedlots(no uniformity) as well as genetically eroded seedlots, in the same seedlot. In fact, this is the TYPICAL arrangement today; random below average phenotypes due to multiple generations of small populations.

There are lots of genes in cannabis that arent genes the typical stoner even realizes are important, yet they are EQUALLY or MORE IMPORTANT. i.e. Genes that support adaptive ability, reproductive ability, disease resistance, genes that hold deleterious alleles in submission, genes that are pieces to a polygenic puzzle, epistatic/interlocal genes that we dont even KNOW ABOUT can be lost by poor breeding. Poor breeding is the only kind of breeding possible under prohibition. So you wanna be a rock and roll star? hah. forgetaboutit.

Make a big open pollination. make a million seeds and pull the seeds as needed, always looking for a clone you can call an elite. You dont need to keep exploring the 'dumpster'. Theres nothing new in there, I guarantee it.

 

[Sideshow-Bob]

You sure have a point there... nobody in the cannabis seed buisness is able to work with the numbers that breeders of legal crop do... wheat breeders work with millions i have heard...

BUT: that does not state this much about quality, it always depends on what the goal of a selection is, and in the commercial breeding this nearly always is quantity and NOT QUALITY. Sure they create lines that grow uniform and stable (and for them that does mean something entirely different than with cannabis strains) but that only shows how much of the gene-pool is lost - take f.e. apples there now is a movement which tries desperately to prevent that many apple strainsdie out, because the commercial breeders have only one interest: apple trees that grow fast, carry a lot of fruit (every year not every 2nd or 3rd) and that grow apples without visiual flaws and with high resistency against mold... because of this selection goals (which doesn't have much to do with how the apple tastes at all) many old lines are for those commercial breeders just not worth to work with... until now there already have been lost a variety of old apple-strains, now imagine you would try to find the apple that tastes best - you won't really have a better chance in the commercial strains

legal and bigger does not mean better! as bad as the whole seed biz situation is (i agree on that it's fucked up in many parts) there are still keepers to be found for everyone who searches... so stop moaning and grow some seeds good luck

solarz ive grown many many many kinds of seeds in my 23 years of growing pot. I KNOW seeds.

Some were internet hackjobs for money, some were gifted hackjobs from internet friends who are probably now in the seed bizz, some were my own hackjobs (and Ive made my share for sure), some were clones friends cut from internet seed hackjobs. Some were seeds I made from friends' hackjobs...you see..they are ALL hackjobs. Because thats all there is. NOBODY is legal to do proper breeding on a proper scale. The few keepers I do have are one-in-a-million plants.
I also have people all the time trying to slip me their fancy new clones from modern hackjobs and I tell them NO THANKS, Ill let You chase that dragon... Im done trying your seeds of diminished quality. I have seen the majority of genetic diversity in the drug genepool so I know what Im talkin about. Shit ive probably spent half of my 23 years of pot growing fucking with hack seeds. Theyre junk and serve no good purposes.

How long have you been growing hack seedjobs?

You can get free seeds from just about any pot smoker. The free seeds you can get from ANYONE are going to be the same quality as the ones you would buy. They are all produced with the same poor methods.
You can also get proven clones with a little asking....its not hard to do unless youre the unibomber or the Grinch.

and solarz: i was talking about 100+ seedselection and bagseed clone... and i'm not making that stuff up, i'm growin a jack flash that was selected from 12 packs jack flash (15 seeds per pack) and i'm also growing a clone that comes from a bagseed - there are quite a few people i know who think the bagseed clone is better

 

[solarz]

^^ i feel you on that. Sometimes it takes that many to find what you are looking for, and sometimes...it only takes but one pack.

solarz

 

[whodair]

typically zero keepers per pack. every strain ive ever purchased from a seed bank is in the trash. except one pheno of rez chemdd. ive got some kick ass clones though.

 

[solarz]

Whodair...could you give a quick run down as to why all the others didn't make the cut and the dawg got to stay around?

solarz

 

[StellarP]

Chiming in, taking clones from seed stock is a must. Meaning, growing a plant from seed might present a "stellar" find, but the clones taken from said mother will present more definite traits. ie: The clones turn out better than the original mother!

Some strains require more work(see effort) and time, which plays against what everyone is trying to achieve.

Winds of change are among us.

peace
StellarP

 

[Sideways]

Lots of feedback...... it's great to see. Elite clones are out there. They come from seed, I will find something special soon enough! I can and have done some simple pollen chucking with some great success and failure. I am not here to produce a ton of seeds or bud for the masses- for me n the fams you know. I like some/most here lost a plant- seedline about 6-7 years ago that I have not been able to rival. I combined two freak plants to produce a Grail plant- for me. StinkyStinkystinky -where has the smell gone in most weed these days? Ultra Stoney, nice to look at- All uniform. Hindsight being 20/20, I'd give up my left nut for that strain again...

 

[whodair]

Whodair...could you give a quick run down as to why all the others didn't make the cut and the dawg got to stay around?

solarz

some that sucked:

nirvana ice and wh rhino. sweet skunk daddy is resinous but mild

sensi NL. not an indica. lots of thai. a stretcher

dp oasis. herms

freebie MIS. leafy hemp

seedsman sk#1. sweet and lanky

reserva privada RKS. sickly sweet

but the chemdd was different. neither sweet nor mild. not your typical dutch bred strain. very old school skunky genes. great long lasting high.

 

[Rouge]

The guy who can market and ship proven (elite) clones is going to be a very very rich man indeed. Nvisionary got it 100% true blue right. I'm sick & tired of seed hunting. It's all hype.

 

[anonymousgrower]

I love how much shit some of these pot snobs talk, I wish some of the people who talk about how easy breeding is and how we should get seeds for $1 each would get off their lazy asses and do something about it, but the fact is; they are just failures at life and want to talk shit about something because that's what they're best at.. talking.

don't expect to find the super duper purple grapefruit smelling pheno off whatever strain you bought out of 10 seeds, it won't happen unless you have the best luck ever.

Mailed clones would be quite nice though, I can agree with that.

 

[Smokeone1]

This could all be put to rest if clones/cuttings were for sale instead of seeds. The breeders would make a lot more money and the majority of the smoke would be great. Then again that just to makes to much sense and is the right thing to do so it won't happen!!

 

[Smokeone1]

The guy who can market and ship proven (elite) clones is going to be a very very rich man indeed. Nvisionary got it 100% true blue right. I'm sick & tired of seed hunting. It's all hype.

Sorry to double post! But that is the quote of the year. That is so true!! People like myself who have no access to clones or people with clones, I bet would be willing pay a $100 per cut easy. I know I would lol!. I hope someone has the balls to do it.

 

[solarz]

There are people already doing this ^^ and aside from it all...you also have to remember, that within this community of ours...there are TONS of hoarders...who won't let a single cut of anything leave their site!!!

If you are in canada...you have a good chance of making your wishes come true...do some searching bro.

 

[Smokeone1]

I wish I was in Canada,Great Buckeye state!! my friend finding a clone here is like finding a virgin lol!!