EWC questions

[richirich_99]

I just bought a bag of EWC to not only make teas with but also to put in my bubble cloner to help fight the slime. my questions are, how much ewc should i use per gal of water when making teas and for my bubble cloner? Also i feel that there should be some use of the used ewc after making a tea. should i mix it in my soil? i use ffof. is it safe and benificial to use my ewc teas to mix my nutes with? i use the Earth Juice grow, bloom, catalyst, and alaska fish emulsion.

Any help with these is great. just getting started with teas, and have some other goodies laying around that i may try adding after i understand a lil more. thanks guys!

 

[ganja din]

Hey

Are the EWC fresh or in a sealed bag? (...sealed more than a few days). If sealed then making ACT for introduction of the soil food web to your media is most probably impossible. Most Commercial EWC are 'dead' or microbes are dormant.

CT Guy's shipping method of compost and EWC are in a breathable burlap sac which is an ideal method IMO, and the only responsible one.

Unfortunately most store bought compost and vermicast (aka Earth Worm Castings - EWC) are generally void of active microbes and don't offer the soil food web.

I find farmers markets are good sources of live compost and EWC. Also, if you have a state university near you asking them about compost sources is a good bet, especially agricultural schools.

HTH

 

[ganja din]

I just bought a bag of EWC to not only make teas with but also to put in my bubble cloner to help fight the slime. my questions are, how much ewc should i use per gal of water when making teas and for my bubble cloner? Also i feel that there should be some use of the used ewc after making a tea. should i mix it in my soil? i use ffof. is it safe and benificial to use my ewc teas to mix my nutes with? i use the Earth Juice grow, bloom, catalyst, and alaska fish emulsion.

Any help with these is great. just getting started with teas, and have some other goodies laying around that i may try adding after i understand a lil more. thanks guys!

Application of EWC for PGRs (Plant Growth Regulators) like auxins, hormones, etc, or for nutrients, is generally suggested at 5-20% media (volume/volume). I usually add 5% to my soilless mixes.
HTH

 

[DARC MIND]

i use a cup or 7-10 TBSP per gal of water of EWC, when making tea's. As for the bubble cloner...i dont know??
i foliar spray with casting diluted too 1 part casting 9 parts water and i only do this so often.
id mix the casting with your soil, just dont add to much, EWC is a great soil amendment IMO, just dont over do it, this may screw up the texture of your media.
follow the less is best rule or be sure to add something to help with oxygen when adding EWC to potting soil. (perlite, vermiculite, rice hulls, ect what ever you got)

EWC and catalyst is a good mix IMHO & experience, same with the fish emulsion, add 1-2 TBSP (depending on stage of growth, strain, soil, etc) of any, with a cup of EWC to a gall of water and be sure its properly aerated.

As fot the comment on sealed bags of EWC, most bags have holes. I dont believe the commercial EWC wont make good ACT, but thats my experience with what I used.. i do agree fresher is always better

ps if any commercial compost or EWC smells bad, its no good, compost it till it smells good

 

[ganja din]

Hey DM

I can pretty much guarantee those EWC do not have the full soil food web, which is the main reason one applies ACT to media. I can also pretty much guarantee EWC which is bagged for more than a couple of days will be pretty devoid of active microbes. Think about it, shipping and all the heat and compaction...the microbes we want from EWC are aerobic. Also most bagged, commercial EWC are pretty much devoid of fungi if from bins, or at least low fungal numbers, they are put through a de-wormer, a series of ever finer screens which serve to injure fungi which might or might not be present in the first place. I find it hard to believe even fresh and homemade vermicast (from bins) offers the full soil food web...compost is key IMO.

Also, just a few holes does not aerobic make. O2 needs to be refreshed often.

Most journal articles cite a minimum of 5% vermicast to gain benefit of PGRs. A strong microherd will help hold media particles in place. I wrote much about this topic in the "best soil" thread on pages 4-7.

Many PGRs are lost in the heat of transport in a sealed bag.

All this is why its important to get the OM assayed for microbial content and activity, it needs to offer the soil food web for nutrient cycling. Or look at the ACT before applying (ie. "direct enumeration method"), that method is best IMO.

HTH

 

[ganja din]

Compost EWC??? What's the point of EWC then?

 

[ganja din]

Re; fish emulsion = crappy product, a 'left-over' by-product...doesn't feed fungi well at all compared to hydrolyzed fish.

Hydrolyzed fish = great product, especially those which use true microbial enzyme processing, this is what is meant by fish product when brewing ACT. It the oils and protiens present in h.fish which makes it a superior fungal food, and bacterial food too.

HTH

 

[DARC MIND]

I can pretty much guarantee those EWC do not have the full soil food web, which is the main reason one applies ACT to media. I can also pretty much guarantee EWC which is bagged for more than a couple of days will be pretty devoid of active microbes. Think about it, shipping and all the heat and compaction...the microbes we want from EWC are aerobic.

I understand your points, but i have used bagged EWC in my brewer and brewed some nice LOOKING compost tea.
When applied to my plants, herbs ect it worked very well. Full soil food web or not my plants responded great..
i tend to lean towards the art of growing more then the science behind it. im a more Urban gardener and i dont own lots of land, so i use what works for me.
Thought i do agree fresher EWC does my garden a lot better.

Also most bagged, commercial EWC are pretty much devoid of fungi if from bins, or at least low fungal numbers, they are put through a de-wormer, a series of ever finer screens which serve to injure fungi which might or might not be present in the first place. I find it hard to believe even fresh and homemade vermicast (from bins) offers the full soil food web...compost is key IMO.

I wouldnt consider EWC as a good fungal compost, but thats me. IF i wanted a fungi compost id use another method of composting or diff compost, built with lots leaf mold, red wood chips and no turning.

Compost EWC??? What's the point of EWC then?

???, if this was a question towards me then the point is diversity.

Re; fish emulsion = crappy product, a 'left-over' by-product...doesn't feed fungi well at all compared to hydrolyzed fish.

Hydrolyzed fish = great product, especially those which use true microbial enzyme processing, this is what is meant by fish product when brewing ACT. It the oils and protiens present in h.fish which makes it a superior fungal food, and bacterial food too

Agree hydrolyzed fish is superior, but fish emulsion works well. We all dont grow herb or use products like you my friend.
your points are legit, id put money on that. But some of use grow a little different with good to outstanding results..

i am just giving advice on what worked for me, I and I is sorry if its not as sound as your methods

 

[richirich_99]

thanks for the great discussion, and help. Im going to play around with some different tea mixes and see how the girls like it. I am on a budget just trying to grow as much of my own smoke as possible, so i would like to keep things cheap and simple.

 

[oddsman]

Has anyone else used sealed earthworm castings to make EWC tea with good results?

I'm pretty sure the only earthworm castings available in my area are sealed, and probably have been sealed for weeks or months before the public gets around to pulling a bag off the shelf. It seems like the vast majority of us don't have access to fresh castings, especially in the winter or in extremely dry climates.

 

[C21H30O2]

Compost EWC??? What's the point of EWC then?

Don't microorganisms go dormant under those conditions. I have brewed plenty of ACT with bag sealed EWC. Do you know it won't work in ACT for sure (as in you have looked at sealed bag ACT under microscope) or are you just making a supposition based off the premise that the beneficial microbes require a constant source of oxygen to remain alive?

 

[jaykush]

it works yes, its better than no castings most of the time and of course if you can local is better because theres a chance its somewhat fresh. not everyone making castings on a large scale is careless about there product. honestly really you never know until you try.

but i can say the results are not as good as homemade castings. which is so easy and takes no space at all. if you just want some for ACT you dont even need a big bin. and with smaller bins you can spoil the worms with a good diet to make high quality castings for the best results when brewing ACT. and in the long run, very happy plants.

 

[maryjohn]

Ganja, I would like to take issue with your insinuation that compost represents the food soil web. I believe that is incorrect.

 

[big_daddy]

I've read that a lot of the sealed EWC products come from Canada, and are the by products of worms composting paper and cardboard. These EWC's are said to be higher in N than castings made by feeding a more diverse diet.

Are the casting's made this way less desirable as far as their nutrient value? I get my castings from a local worm farm, and they are way richer and loamier (? is that a word?) than the sealed/bagged variety I have used in the past.

 

[C21H30O2]

no doubt fresh castings (local castings) will most likly be better. But perhaps CT guy or one of the others can tell us if aerobic microbes can go dormant in sealed bags of ewc.

 

[CT Guy]

no doubt fresh castings (local castings) will most likly be better. But perhaps CT guy or one of the others can tell us if aerobic microbes can go dormant in sealed bags of ewc.

Don't have much time to type right now, heading out the door. Did want to drop a few quick points on this thread.

1. We no longer ship in burlap sacks because we had too much microbial activity and they were eating through the bags in a matter of a week or two. We've now got breathable plastic woven mesh bags. I think they're superior becaus they still allow the compost to breathe and are not a food source for the microbes.

2. Jay is right about making your own. If you can do it, go for it, problem solved.

3. I lean towards GanjaDin on this one. If it's in a sealed bag it's probably been compromised. Sure, you'll have many go dormant, but you'll probably have some microbial loss as well. How long will it take for conditions to become right for them to become active again? Will it require inputs of foods? How do you know when it's viable again without a microscope?

4. We're attempting to brew BIOLOGY when we make ACT. We also are looking to maximize our diversity and numbers of active microbes and biomass. To do this, you need a good brewer, good compost, and proper amounts of foods. Sure, you can make less than perfect ACT that will still provide some plant benefit, but if we're talking about ideal situations (which is what we should all strive for), then Ganja's comments are right on.

5. Lastly, you really need a microscope to know if you made good tea. However it looks or smells isn't going to tell you all that much. If your plants respond well, that's great! It doesn't necessarily mean you made a good tea though...

 

[vonforne]

Well great points CT Thanks for the input on this one. I prefer home made also but do search out EWC or Compost at local fresh sources. Right now I use it out of the bag but my compost is fresh and home made. We have tons of compost stations here and I dop by and pick up a fresh pile now and again and use that for the ACT.

And since it is Christmas tie I wonder who is going to send me one of those Microbeman Microscopes?

V

 

[CT Guy]

One thing I meant to say and didn't.....

If all you have is bagged EWC, by all means use it! It's better than nothing at all. In the interim, you can search out some better local sources or determine if you want to make your own.

 

[jaykush]

1. We no longer ship in burlap sacks because we had too much microbial activity and they were eating through the bags in a matter of a week or two.

lol been there, microbes are hungry for burlap haha.

 

[C21H30O2]

One thing I meant to say and didn't.....

If all you have is bagged EWC, by all means use it! It's better than nothing at all. In the interim, you can search out some better local sources or determine if you want to make your own.

I think this goes for almost anything organic, lol hell even growing cannabis in general.... do it yourself and it will most likely turn out better.