Too much light in veg??

[basspirate]

Hey folks, quick question;

I /had/ three seedlings under 84w of 2700k CFLs in my basement. The only survivor went it's first seven days under only 42w. It seems the last two little ones to break soil have mysteriously broken their stems somehow- like literally popped outta the ground, no roots, just the stem. They were only a few inches from the lights, so I don't know if they would have stretched /that bad/. They were only cm's away before, but it seemed to harsh them out and burn the leaves on the survivor. There's no way anyone would have touched it. Soil was moist, no nute feedings or anything silly...

Are they literally trying too hard to grow fast and kinda ODing on light? It's not super hot under these two lights at the moment as they are in the bottom of a rubbermaid with the top tub left off.

It sucks, the first one to go was a super stout contender that I had hoped would bring me lots of sticky brain joy.

Should I maybe break these two lights up and keep my survivor under one and the next batch under another (thank God these are all bagseed/seeds i grew out from my outdoor this year). I have my future mommy box, as far as the container itself goes, I just wasn't planning on putting anything in there until someone was sexed. If they are ODing on the light, how big should they be before putting them under the full 84w?

Am I going nuts? Poltergeists? Bad luck?

Thanks folks!!

 

[hashit]

Dude, I put my seedlings under a 400 watt MH with no problem...you sure heat isn't an issue? Do you have good air circulation?

If too much light was a problem, then nothing would survive under the outdoor sun...

 

[SmokeyThaBandit]

yea theres really no such thing as too much light....

 

[geopolitical]

There's such a thing as too much light but it's REALLY hard to achieve indoors without cooking the plants first.

That sounds like a heat issue or that you have cutworms or damp off at work.

 

[Green Supreme]

They grow under the sun, grow room lights cannot compare. Plants may need a hardening period when going to higher light intensity. More often indoors its the heat created by the light that is a problem than the lumen intensity. Good luck. Peace GS

 

[soulles]

Man i had my seedlings stem broken and still don't know why.
What do you mean the leaves where burned????Maybe your soil had to much nutes(nutes that come in the soil i mean) and burned them.Did you check the soil PH???

 

[MaLaN]

There is such thing as too much light.

Plants need 25000-50000 Lux to grow fast.

Now, 90000Lux is the most intensity that excists on earth... = too much light for plants.

Note: 140000 lux this is the intensity above earths atmosphere.
-Just so you get an idea.

WHATS LUX?
lm/m2, the intensity of light which falls on a surface.


The sun gives about 50,000 Lumens 1meter sq. so to get the Lux you do the equation.
lm/m2

50,000/1 = 50,000Lux this is the ideal intensity for a plant. (perfect for a 400W light ina 3x3ft area)

So, One 1000W lamp gives out about 150,000Lumens... this means this lamp can cover over 3 meters squared.
this = 28SqFt. @ 50,000Lux per squared meter. (5x5 area)

Makes sense?

 

[djam]

Oh there is definitely issue of way to much/close light . My reflector was to close to my plants just around 2 feet but it was still light bleaching them
So I just moved the light up and the growth is way faster and healthier . Temps where not the issue here , there was too much light .

 

[MaLaN]

Basspirate: I doubt very much its the light, it seems you have insect or rodent issues. I've personally had insects eat through the middle of my stem and another which was bitten in half by a rat(i believe). So now my garage grow failed, and moved it inside. Those babys will grow fast and you may find them tilting, but never out of their soild. Unless the bottom soil was too hard to go through and they grew tall enough to actualy push themselfs out (which is not probable)...

 

[basspirate]

Thanks for the responses. It's super troubling as I put such high hopes in the little bastards when they poke out. I haven't ever checked the PH of the soil, that is probably something I should do- it's potting soil left over from some flowers I brought in for the year, but I didn't think I ever fed them anything but superthrive this year and that certainly would have been washed out from the various rain/weather they would have encountered during Sept. and October.

As far as the leaf burn, that happened when I had the plant like 2cm from the light over night and had just added that second bulb. I think it had to be burned from that.

This issue is, hopefully, just heat related. I am gonna go to wally-world today and find a small fan to put down in there and get them some air. I really doubted it could be too much light, I mean it's a couple CFLs for cryin' out loud, but it just seemed like those things jumped outta their seat.

MaLan, thank you for the detailed explanation regarding Lux.

To you all, once again, thanks much. I will be starting a thread on here with my grow in the next week or two, once things really get cookin' and will have some fotos.

 

[MaLaN]

np, anytime...

Hmmm, It is a bad idea to use "used" soil from other plants. They can carry diseases and things like this. It's highly recommended using brand new soil, personally, I'd go Soilless mix, get a revers osmosis system and water the babys with a low amount of nutes, 150ppm-200ppm.
Id kick in some root stimulator just to make sure there going to be happy as hell.

Never use outside soil, I tryed it once, horrible idea lool... they grow slower then compared with some soilless mix. You can tell the difference by a huge ratio. Greener, bigger, and quicker!

 

[basspirate]

Greener, bigger, and quicker!

And that sir, is the idea! Yes!

I'm gonna go grab some soilless mix today, hopefully they have some at the garden center in Home dePOT. My funds at the moment are so fucked due to totalitarian college financial aid despots, but I want the children to be happy. It'll be well worth whatever the fuck it costs-which I doubt will be very much. And, considering I've got these shits starting in little 20oz bottles, it shouldn't take a mountain of dirt.

 

[Roortokeage]

There is such thing as too much light.

Plants need 25000-50000 Lux to grow fast.

Now, 90000Lux is the most intensity that excists on earth... = too much light for plants.

Note: 140000 lux this is the intensity above earths atmosphere.
-Just so you get an idea.

WHATS LUX?
lm/m2, the intensity of light which falls on a surface.


The sun gives about 50,000 Lumens 1meter sq. so to get the Lux you do the equation.
lm/m2

50,000/1 = 50,000Lux this is the ideal intensity for a plant. (perfect for a 400W light ina 3x3ft area)

So, One 1000W lamp gives out about 150,000Lumens... this means this lamp can cover over 3 meters squared.
this = 28SqFt. @ 50,000Lux per squared meter. (5x5 area)

Makes sense?

Listen to what he has to say, He does lknow what he is talking about and these others dont.

There is such thing as too much light, and too much light can and will damage your plants. Be aware and watch how you grow.

 

[basspirate]

Thanks for the input, Roortokeage!

It did certainly sound like wise advice. I am trying to think though...these lamps have 2700k as far as lumens go (I do think I remember hearing that you dont add lumens-so does that number stay the same?)

I am growing in an area that has, let's say, a solid 10x16 inches of growing space as well as 30 inches of height (but height doesn't go into this calculation or I am going to end up in cubed units. according to an english to metric converter that's .25m x .4m= 0.1m squared , yes?

so that should give me 27000 lux ?? Looks like enough, but it seems I am still at the low end of the spectrum-is increasing the light going to really help me out, or am I going to see good, fast, solid growth with this much light?

Or did I really fuck up my calculations-it seems like people veg with so little light that 84w of cfls should be plenty; i'm willing to go with more though if I am going to see my growth rate increase exponentially. I guess I need to consider heat issues and everything too.

Thanks again for the input.

 

[MaLaN]

You have to remember, 25,000 to 50,000 for fast growth... People grow with CFL's and Regular house bulbs which in my opinion you need LOTs of to simulate the sun or a decent quality growing light, but that doesnt mean they wont grow, it just means, slow if not very slow growth.

I had my plant under a 26W Fluorecent bulb. It grew well, for its seedling life, but then after two weeks, it was too big for it, But still i left it on. The plant was still growing fast, so when i transplanted her to my 4gal container, 1 week later i put her under a 400W HPS... I was surprized how fast it grew regarding it was an HPS and not an MH... Besides growth, the plant was happier.

Pic, 1 week after being on the 400W HPS

To get topgrowth, you dont need just a light... It's a combo of things, like... Humidity, Soil, Nutrients, lighting, ventilation, and most importantly Love(interest for your babys). and if you have love, You have time to read and take care of ur babys haha!

 

[SmokeyThaBandit]

Ok, so to reply to these posts that say there is such a thing as too much light. Sure there is, but you nor anyone else could humanly produce it. You cannot produce more light than the sun emits without making international headlines and spending enough money to support a small country, so no dont worry about too much light. As for lights being to close to plants, yes but again that has nothing to do with HOW MUCH light is in your room. If anyone does think that too much light is possible to produce at home in a little grow room they're retarded. You could use the wrong spectrum of lgiht, but again that has nothing to do with HOW MUCH light is in the room. As for Roortokage's comments, that is the absolutely correct formula but again you dont need to worry about producing too much light, unless you talking about spending a fortune and filling warehouses with HID lighting, and again it would still be tough.

 

[DankHank]

poor soil will have bugs that cut your fresh seedlings off at the base. cfl lights work great for seedlings but if you dont have the best soil you can find you are going into this half ass! goodluck

 

[geopolitical]

You cannot produce more light than the sun emits without making international headlines and spending enough money to support a small country

You are exceptionally bad at math aren't you?

http://starhop.com/library/pdf/studyguide/high/SolInt-19.pdf

 

[basspirate]

Well, folks, I think it was a soil and ventilation problem primarily. I went and got some fresh potting soil and have been seeing fast growth from this second generation. My first plant that was in the used soil is looking beefy and growing fast too, luckily for me. I am going to transplant it in a week or so though just to get it on an uber solid track.

As far as light goes, I guess originally I was just wondering if I was really stressing the little seedlings by changing the light in its environment so quickly. It does seem like it would be a stretch to think there was 'too much light' with a couple cfls, but I think I mentioned that.

As far as going in half-assed, yeah, a couple weeks ago I just decided to get started. I had minimal supplies, but I decided to act now and ask questions later. I only had half an ass to start with!

But, I've made another Home dePOT trip, got some velcro for mounting my lights, learned how to wire a pc fan and started seven seedlings in some 20oz bottles (cut to 16). I've got six on the move with a fury and as I said earlier, my one survivor/contender is looking like it could turn into one nasty bitch.

Once again, thanks for the thoughts and input.

 

[SmokeyThaBandit]

hey geo thats cool info you provided with that pdf link. As far as giving advice on a thread where a begginer is looking for some easy advice on lighting i think maybe you're swimmin in the deep end. i understand the super tech heads always want to brag and demonstrate their great in-depth knowledge, (which is ironic considering your quote at the end of your posts), maybe your just in the wrong thread.