To much lime !!! Ph 8.0

[mikemoister]

SOIL:

How long has this problem been going on? 1 week - 2?

What STRAIN are you growing? White widow, Satori

What was the establishing technique? (seed)

What is the age of your plants? 3-4 months

How long have they been in the soil mixture they are in now? 6 weeks

How Tall are the plants? 2 1/2 feet

What PHASE ( flower) are the plants in?

What Technique are you using? (lst)

What size pots are you using? (3 gallons)

What substrate/ black gold,1/8 happy frog, 1/8 ferti lome ultimate potting soil)
What Nutrient's are you using? pura vida, high p guano

How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? 1/2 tsp per gallon for satoris and 1 tsp for widows

How often are you feeding? every 3rd watering some times 4th

If flowering, when did you switch over to using Bloom nutrients? 3rd week

What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used? ?

What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"? 8.0

What method of pH test was administered? drops

How often are you watering? every three days

When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding? five days ago

What size bulb are you using? 1000watts

What is the distance to the canopy? 1 1/2 feet

What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity) 30-40

What is the canopy temperature? 70-80

What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range) day ranges from 60-75 and night 60

What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.) 200

Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ? exhaust cfm

Is the fan blowing directly at plants? oscillating underneath

Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist? moist

Is your water HARD or SOFT? 200 ppm

What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water? tap and RO

Are you using water from a water softener? no

Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched? no

Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when? no

Are plant's infected with pest's? no

 

[Ziggaro]

dolomite is neutral dude.. doesnt raise your pH above 7.. probably your tap water messing things up.

 

[mikemoister]

They were flushed with RO water ph 6.5 and still the run off is 8.0. i thought it might be that high because they were watered with tap water (ph 8.5 +) but after the flush me thinks it has to be the lime added to already ph balanced soil. When the deficiencies showed more ferts were added ... rookie mistake!! next day problems got worse.
whats the solution?

peace.

 

[barletta]

How much lime did you add? I believe that Lime will take the soil to ~8.2 ph if you use too much. I had a mix that was was too alkaline that I had to toss into the compost pile.

What is the recommended feed rate for the pure vida? Do they take into account the RO water? I'm just guessing, matching your pics to the descriptions and pics in my head from mynamestitch's infirmary sticky, but it looks like potassium (k). What is the NPK on the pure vida?

If the problem just started 1-2 weeks ago, I would think that it would be under/over feeding/watering before it would be too much lime. When I used too much lime, my plants hated it from the get go. I tried to 'acidify' it with cottonseed meal, and that lead to more problems. When I trashed the soil, and built a new one, the grow got back on track. Unfortunately, I still had a few dozen plants in the fukked up soil...

 

[mikemoister]

Ziggaro, it is dolomite... a little less then a cup per cubic foot plus whatever is in the soil. barletta... pura vida bloom is 2-6-6 and the recommended dose is something like 4-6ml per litter...i feed so little becuse they were healthy almost turning dark green, after reading mandala mikes how to water article i started to water 2quarts of water with no run off every two ...three days.

would liquid karma help with these problems.

thanks for the replies.

 

[cashmunny]

Ziggaro, it is dolomite... a little less then a cup per cubic foot plus whatever is in the soil. barletta... pura vida bloom is 2-6-6 and the recommended dose is something like 4-6ml per litter...i feed so little becuse they were healthy almost turning dark green, after reading mandala mikes how to water article i started to water 2quarts of water with no run off every two ...three days.

would liquid karma help with these problems.

thanks for the replies.

1 cup fer cubic foot of dolomite is a little over 2 tablespoons per gallon of soil. Might be a bit much, and giving you a really strong buffer in your soil that holds the pH steady at over 7.0 I used 3 tablespoons dolomite per gallon of 50/50 moss/perlite and fucked that medium up beyond repair. Even with the moss being very acidic!

 

[mikemoister]

Hmm. the reason i suspect lime to be the cause is because after flushing with 9 gallons of Ro water run off is still 8, could this still happen if the cuase is buffers in the tap water?
yea! does it matter is the plants become stress during transplant this late in flowering, probably better than leaving it in this soil to die right?
widows have three weeks left and the satoris have 5-6 .

 

[EvilTwin]

MM,
It's my understanding that dolomite lime takes a really long time to integrate into the soil. The lime Baletta was referring to was probably the fast acting lime. In any case...
the damage is done.

It's really too late to swap out soil. Root damage would occur and you'd be so delayed...better to finish this run and start fresh with new clones.
ET

 

[Senor_Bueno]

mikemoister. dolomite does not go over 7 flat. and by seeing ur pics at the top only showing the leaves. if you look closly you will see your stem is red and the graying. im gonna have to call it phos. def.

 

[barletta]

Senor_Bueno dolomite does not go over 7 flat.

That's bad info. Senor, check your book on organic soil. Dood clearly states that the Ph of ground limestone (not hydrated/treated lime) is ~8.2. If you add a substance who's Ph is 8 to a soil who's Ph is 7, the Ph of the resulting mix will go up. It is entirely possible to raise the Ph of your medium above (alkaline) the desired range by adding too much limestone.

All that said, I still don't think that lime is the problem here. When I overlimed (with ground AG lime), I had problems as soon as the plants hit the soil.

 

[happyherb]

i did something similar once...not as bad though ...found my tap water ph was so high it was through the roof too(at that house but perfect previous house)...lowered that with ph down and bought some iron chelates(found in same place as ferts in garden shop...cant find it ?ask and say you over limed you garden patch) and used that at a lower rate(half dose) that was on the pack for veggies/flowers.....found within a week new growth was coming on fine...had over 50 or 60 plants it happen too...28 in the flower room and only say 3 took there time to get back to normal...it worked!!! .HH. =]-~

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

dolomite is neutral dude.. doesnt raise your pH above 7.. probably your tap water messing things up.

depends on how much you need vs how much you use. you certainly can overdo it with lime. the ph of lime is much higher than proper mj pH. That's why it's used as a buffer.

example - if your mix needs lime at the rate of 1 teaspoon lime per gallon of mix, more than a teaspoon per gallon will result in too high pH.

edit: didn't see you up there, barletta.

 

[Senor_Bueno]

barletta, mikekioster says he using Dolomite lime. and....Dolomite lime will never raise above a flat 7. I'm still going with P def. Look close at the leaves at top of page all four leaves show red stem and grayish leaves. You might want to read on ur books. Brotha

 

[Senor_Bueno]

Also, Phosphorus floculates when concentrated and combined with calcium.
Dolomite CaMg(CO3)2 or Calcium Magnesium Carbomate. Dolomite is 30.4% CaO (calcium)
it could be like the title on mikemiosters thread says "To much lime".

 

[Hammerhead]

I would agree it's not the lime the amount he used would not cause that kind of damage. I accidentally used to much dol lime and had no issue from doing it. What are you using to measure the PH? If you used a pen type ph meter when was the last time it was calibrated?

I just read you are using a drop? method to test pH. Those are not accurate and you may not have a ph problem. Get a PH pen.

 

[barletta]

Bueno, do a google search for 'MSDS of dolomite'. The Ph for each test substance is listed. I don't know where you got the idea that dolomitic limestone (calcium carbonate containing magnesium) is a ph neutral substance. It is about as alkaline as baking soda. Even the book that you lent me listed the Ph of limestone (didn't specify dolomitic or not) as 8+.

 

[Senor_Bueno]

my good friend. ive been reading the same canna bible since i came home. and in the bible it states that you can NOT raise dolomite over 7. And that book you are reading, although a good book, is from the 60's. and while you are googling check what high concentrations of calcium does to the phosphourus levels. im not hear to tussle with ya, just want to fix this guys problem. anybody else have any ideas?

 

[Hammerhead]

Its worth pointing out that what is sold as Dolomite lime is actually powdered dolomite rock with no heat treatment, therefore it is only neutral to very mildly alkaline. Dolomite will shift soil pH from acid to neutral, or from neutral to slightly alkaline, but not alkaline. For that you require slaked lime, which has been roasted at high temperature to drive off the acid carbon dioxide and leave the basic Calcium oxide. This is sold as builders lime, because when mixed into a paste it reabsorbs CO2 from the air and slowly sets to form limestone once more.
In many case dolomite is added to soil to provide magnesium to plants. Magnesium is an essential trace element, the chlorophyll molecule is based around a central magnesium atom

I still think he needs to recheck his PH with something more Accurate

 

[mikemoister]

Just want to give thanks for the replies. the drops are general hydroponics, what kinda pen do you use Hammerhead? also the soil had lime then i added the recommend dose for peat that has none. If tap water is the cause ...wouldn't the run off ph change after an ro flush?
I might just have to ride this one out but next grow will be a lot smoother for sure. I t sucks !!!!these satori smell sooooooo sweet ..like grape sour candy and some sandal wood type scent.

happy herb ill check up on the iron chelates to see whats up with that . thanks

 

[Senor_Bueno]

ok MikeM dont give up so easy on this problem. You should try to find out what it could be. Or it may happen next time when you try to fix a probelem that may be something else.
I'm only bringing up what I have found thru your facts and what I believe it may be. At least look into it.
1) You told us you water every 3-5 days
2) When you do water there is never any run off.
3) When you feed it is ONLY 1/2 to 1Tsp per gallon. Every 3rd or 4th watering
4) You started to feed 3 weeks into flower.
5) The Pura Vida recomends you to feed 4-6ml per litter. or 4-6Tsp per gallon (conversion)
other facts are.........
1) Underwatering can cause nuitrents to transport very slowing.
2) You are growing Indica dom. plants. And Indicas can eat LOTS of food.
in my opinion you are not giving your plants enough water or food plus the fact that excisse amounts of calcium can affect your phos. intake. before you bow down check it out plz.