Healthcare passes house. your thoughts?

[slappyjack]

Lots of bullshit. Glad you are loving it. Drone.

It's real health care reform, not bullshit. Think whatever you want, the majority wants HCR and we will get it without your help.

BTW, the reform items in the list are supported by Republicans. Even they aren't so ignorant to believe the status quo is a solution.

 

[Bobby Stainless]

There is a difference between trying to insure 45-50 million people through a Government mandate, and fine tuning/ fixing what you have already.

You are WRONG. This bill will not pass, not without a lot of negotiation.

Medicare is govt. run and waaaaaaaaay over budget.

The budget is a Trillion, what will it really cost.

With this bill, each and every American now owes 300,000.00 in debt.

 

[slappyjack]

There is a difference between trying to insure 45-50 million people through a Government mandate, and fine tuning/ fixing what you have already.

Medicare is govt. run and waaaaaaaaay over budget.

The budget is a Trillion, what will it really cost.

With this bill, each and every American now owes 300,000.00 in debt.

1. They've had decades to "fix what you have already" and they have failed miserably. It's getting worse every year.

2. Medicare funding is down because tax revenues are down at the same time the baby boomers are retiring. The HCR bill streamlines Medicare precisely to keep it funded and functioning. Without this bill it WILL go broke.

3. The cost is deficit neutral, aka it is paid for, unlike Bush's wars.

4. Got a link? Are you really claiming the entire cost is funded by taxes? Why are you ignoring the SAVINGS?

 

[FreshlyShaven]

There are only about 10 million people in that situation, not 50 which this bill is shooting for...

So fuck those 10 million, then? Exactly who do you think we should let die?

Medicare is bankrupt. It is waaaaay over budget. Advantage members are also going to see a cut in premium benefits

Medicare is not bankrupt. Yes, it will need additional financing in the future, but that doesn't change the fact that it's still the cheapest way to pay for healthcare. The true road to bankruptcy is to continue relying on private insurers.

Not true. That was made illegal in 96. Do your homework.

What was made illegal? Recision or pressuring companies to dump sick employees? Yes, the latter is illegal but it's also widely done mainly because it's very difficult to prove. The only way to stop it is to stop depending on profit-hungry companies for insurance.

You do realize you are comparing the Size of France with the entire US?

Not at all. I'm comparing the competency of the respective systems. "America is big" isn't an excuse for ignoring the evidence from the rest of the world.

Wrong Again!

Care to explain how?

Just to summarize: single payer is the only way to affordably cover more than just the richest 5 percent. For all of your cries about freedom and the constitution and the free market, there is no other feasible proposal from anyone in this thread.

Allowing insurers to market across state boundaries would result in all the country's insurance being based in one or two states with no real regulations. As a result, insurers will be able to defraud their customers, ration care as they please, and basically do whatever they damn well please with no thought to the rights of their patients. More patients would find their treatments unaffordable and their conditions uncovered. Moreover, it would only result in a minor and one-time-only decrease in premiums; costs would rise just as fast as they are now. "tort reform" would cut costs only infinitesimally and would result in more individuals screwed over by the system.

 

[Bobby Stainless]

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

My bad 344k. That's total.

Medicare holders will LOSE benefits, due to this "streamlining", but what do you care?

It's getting WORSE on PURPOSE. This is all part of the eventual... Well. Whatever.

We will see what finally passes. As always, those not paying do not really care.

 

[komrade komura]

I don't really see what the fuss is about....oh yeah...there are billions of dollars at stake and greedy people who want it.

 

[FreshlyShaven]

cashmummy...you cheapen the lives of every fallen vet who has ever served out of a
sense of patriotism regardless of how misguided at the time.
I did not, nor do I agree with war, its inception nor its conception...however, I do agree
that many men and now women enter military service out of a sense of loving freedom
and being willing to fight and die for the concept of liberty, regardless if any amendments
were or could be quoted. do you think the revolutionary war was fought and quoted
concerning an amendment or just for the basic ideal and concept of FREEDOM from
tyranny and forced oppression?
I also was 'drafted' by my local judge, as in go to nam or prison....but since I was stuck
there, I tried to stay alive. We all did. One of the reasons that can be alluded to is
the sense of fighting for a principal, otherwise we all killed and a lot of good people died
for naught...as did in all our 'wars'.
I believe in freedom, not the 'nanny' state freedoms that the Govt. wants you to take
as a handout in todays world. This Govt. would have you believe that they give you
your freedoms as a privilege, when nothing could be closer to the truth.
Our freedoms are our inalienable rights as human beings, and we all arbor the same rights
and freedoms tto do as we choose - as long as our expression of our concieved rights do
NOT infringe on anyone elses rights and liberties.
This healthcare 'bill' is an infringement on my and your basic right to choose as a free
person and it criminalizes us for being free to just say no, I wont pay for someone else.

Thank you so much for risking your life in the name of the freedom to die from a preventible illness due to lack of funds and the PRIVILEGE to pay twice as much as any one else on the planet for the worst healthcare system in the developed world. GOD BLESS AMERICA!

 

[slappyjack]

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

My bad 344k. That's total.

Medicare holders will LOSE benefits, due to this "streamlining", but what do you care?

It's getting WORSE on PURPOSE. This is all part of the eventual... Well. Whatever.

We will see what finally passes.

Bwhwhahaha. Now you're talking about the debt clock? Why weren't you complaining when Bush was exploding the debt by spending trillions on fake wars? Pop quiz hotshot.. Do you remember the last time the debt clock counted down instead of up? Was it under Reagan? Nope. Bush I? Nope. Bush the idiot? Nope. I'll let you figure it out, and it's going to be painful to you when you do.

What do I care? You sure have some gall for someone who has proven on this very thread that you don't care about anyone but yourself. Such levels of selfishness are rare, but here you are, and apparently you are quite proud of it.

I want every American (and every human being for that matter) to have access to affordable healthcare. You don't. Next.

 

[Bobby Stainless]

Actually Yes I was. Same with the war going on RIGHT NOW. But let's get Obama's agenda through first and let a few more soldiers die, before he eventually pulls them all.

No. I just don't want to pick up the bill.

Must be nice being in young and dumb. Unfortunately, I dont have that luxury. I have people that count on me to provide for them. You want people to provide for you.

That is the main difference. Those who do for themselves, and those who dont.

 

[Littleleaf]

What happened to Darwinism? You know survival of the fittest.

 

[JimBeamKush]

I am american and I can tell you one thing, we are the most greedy people in the world. Not only do we not want to provide good health insurance for future generations, as long as we have ok health insurance now we are fine!

 

[Bobby Stainless]

Leave then.

 

[cashmunny]

I am american and I can tell you one thing, we are the most greedy people in the world. Not only do we not want to provide good health insurance for future generations, as long as we have ok health insurance now we are fine!

It's funny, I was listening to a woman from South America speak this weekend. And her impression of the US before she moved here was that we are very generous people. Always ready with assistance if there is a natural disaster anywhere in the world.

But then she moved here and had a rude awakening.

Leave then.

Better to stay and work for social justice.

 

[Bobby Stainless]

Social justice huh?

Cashmunny... I am sure you spend all your time working for social justice.

Buncha kids, with out a CLUE/CARE in the world.

Gets different when you have to think of others. Not just feel good cause you have a Obama sticker on your car.

 

[iGro4Me]

I want healthcare...I wish it would be more simple. Either way....this shit of letting poor people die is sickening. You have to be a welfare mom, disabled or have health insurance to count in this country. Ironic that the people who pay a big leg of our taxes are losing their health insurance left and right and keep paying for the trash in this country.

Let's reform welfare a little. I'm sick of seeing so many welfare moms get their cars fixed, food stamps, housing improvements. Just so they can sit on their asses. That is a HUGE problem in this country.

That's a GREAT place to start Miss B.

How about about S.S. and Medicaid as well....

You'll have to pardon my cynicism when it comes to the government running ANYTHING effectively/efficiently.

I WANT MY MTV !!!!

 

[Amstel Light]

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

My bad 344k. That's total.

Medicare holders will LOSE benefits, due to this "streamlining", but what do you care?

It's getting WORSE on PURPOSE. This is all part of the eventual... Well. Whatever.

We will see what finally passes. As always, those not paying do not really care.

i love the self rightous right... had all of 8 years to fix chit....made it real worse....now when it's time to fix it they have no solutions just negativity...so whats your solution or your party's 11th hour solution look like BS (bobby stainless)?

 

[komrade komura]

Any system where a healthcare executive makes 100 times the salary of a school teacher needs to be changed...if not destroyed....cause them priorities are fucked up and I don't remember ever getting a vote on that.

But then as someone said: 'If voting changed things, they would make it illegal'

As an American living in the UK, I just gotta say I like the system here. It works and I prefer it to the Wealthcare system in the US.

Sure, It is stupid around the edges (tickertape display boards in all the offices...for the hearing impaired I guess), but when I get sick they fix me right up.

Office visits last much longer than in the US and the depth of care seems higher...questions about work, activities, etc...leading to a higher level of comfort than the fast pill dispenser experience I have occasionally found in the US.

But the doctors here get the same salary no matter 1 patient or 100...so they go for quality of care big time and it leads to higher levels of health.

Big chunk of money comes outta my paycheck for this....but:

I will never go bankrupt due to medical costs or

die waiting for some insurance administrator to say my problem is covered while the CEO is living large from the mathematical difference between premium collected and claims paid/denied.

So America is making a step in the right direction...a very small one. Ain't no big deal really...except to those feeding at the trough.

 

[AntelopeDope]

I will never go bankrupt due to medical costs or

die waiting for some insurance administrator to say my problem is covered while the CEO is living large from the mathematical difference between premium collected and claims paid/denied.

No. You will die waiting for the bureaucrats to make the final cost cutting measures to the budget. After which, you will be far too along to save, and deemed too deep a cost for treatment. After all, the only numbers the government has to look at are costs. Ponder that a moment...

Or maybe you will die due to lack of medical innovation, something that is completely de-incentivised in the UK's glorious social "health" system. Keep life expectancy down, keep COSTS down...

There, doctors are penalized if they provide too much car to a patient. They lose money for "exhaustive" measures. Everyone is divided by the common denominator... Just because you havn't encountered a problem personally, does not mean the system is working.

Rather than CEO's raking in the cash, the politicians would be. Moral equivalence is never a bettering factor.

some fun factoids from our 2,000 page bill:

Section 7203 — misdemeanor willful failure to pay is punishable by a fine of up to $25,000 and/or imprisonment of up to one year.


• Section 7201 — felony willful evasion is punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment of up to five years.” [page 3] That anyone should face prison for not buying health insurance is simply incredible. And how much will the stay-out-of-jail insurance cost? The Joint Committee noted that “according to a recent analysis by the Congressional Budget Office, the lowest-cost family non-group plan under HR 3862 [the Pelosi bill] would cost $15,000 by 2016.

We need reform, not Government intervention.

One of the silver bullets to premiums would be TORT reform, something the Democrats totally excluded from the current bill. That has been estimated to have an immediate effect on premiums. But I guess they are waiting on that one, right? :lol:

 

[slappyjack]

some fun factoids from our 2,000 page bill:

Section 7203 — misdemeanor willful failure to pay is punishable by a fine of up to $25,000 and/or imprisonment of up to one year.

• Section 7201 — felony willful evasion is punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment of up to five years.” [page 3]

These sections are from the US Tax Code, not the HCR bill. Proof that you haven't even skimmed the bill in question. Next.

 

[iGro4Me]

These sections are from the US Tax Code, not the HCR bill. Proof that you haven't even skimmed the bill in question. Next.

His points are dead on. Next.