Healthcare passes house. your thoughts?

[Hash Zeppelin]

I think everyone is forgetting that health care will pass. Democrats are just being nice right now. They can easily push everything through with a 51% majority, if need be, and they will when the time comes.

 

[rootfingers]

Good for you. You are fixing your problem of being a target for prohibition laws. That fixes health care how? Because it sounds like you are just criticizing other people's points of view. If not this heath care bill, I'd like you to point out a politically feasible alternative and please let me know when I can watch that debate on cspan, because I'd love to see it.

 

[rootfingers]

I think everyone is forgetting that health care will pass. Democrats are just being nice right now. They can easily push everything through with a 51% majority, if need be, and they will when the time comes.

 

[slappyjack]

Simple.

That is political suicide.

The majority of voters middle aged and senior citizens would not approve.

You mean teabagger senior citizens don't approve because they hate Obama.

In the real world AARP officially approves of the bill as well as most of their non-teabag members.

Quit lying please.

 

[Frozenguy]

For those of you saying that health care should be free need to realize that nothing is free.

If its free, why would doctors study 15 years eating ramen and crap for lunch?

It takes a lot of energy and time to develop medical science and you think it should be handed out to anyone/everyone and even to those who can't afford it because they dont work or spend their money on other things.

Its a lack of personal responsibility.

I wonder why the majority of people who don't have health care, don't. There are SOME situations out there that are legitimate, but most people just say they odnt have enough money but go buy a Starbucks the next minute.

Health care is expensive, but its not impossible; unless you don't work, unless you had too many kids that you could afford, or made some bad choices (bad drugs, too much food)..

For those that are truly in a legit situation that can't pay for health care, we need a program.

I'm tired of people making bad choices and and expecting everyone else to pick up the slack.

Health care is OUR responsibility. We aren't kids anymore.

With that said, health care is more expensive then it needs to be and if nothing is done about the root of the problem, no plan will work.

If you want your government to tell you what is good for you and what is bad for you and how to live your life and how to spend your money and who to spend it on, America isn't for you; although it may be JUST RIGHT for you in the near future.

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." -Benjamin Franklin

Can we all agree that you really have to be a WICKEDLY, sick, individual to wanna charge

someone for being sick,

to wanna kick someone out of a hospital because they cant pay the bill.

YOU really have to be some kind of a brain wash robot to think that everyone in the world shouldnt be given meds because they cant afford it.

i mean if you truely believe you should pay for your health, you are a canidate for the Republican party. but youre also a canidate for any extreme faction in the world
Iranian party leaders, the tea partys of US, al qaeda ,

these extreme, normally racist but not always, are just Partys for people who dont care for the advicment of the human species as a whole, they want power to stay in there favor... ie political or financial and they use untruths and lies to convice the masses.

I love people, I have a ton of compassion. But there is one thing my mom always taught me. Take care of yourself before you take care of others. Meaning, make sure you are on a stable foundation and ABLE to help someone without dragging yourself down too or else no one is in a place to do anything.

Just like in an airplane, you put your oxy mask on first, then help the person next to you.

America IS collapsing and this program will help do us in.

We are in a huge economic crisis yet we are spending more then we have ever imagined.

 

[Bobby Stainless]

Good for you. You are fixing your problem of being a target for prohibition laws. That fixes health care how? Because it sounds like you are just criticizing other people's points of view. If not this heath care bill, I'd like you to point out a politically feasible alternative and please let me know when I can watch that debate on cspan, because I'd love to see it.

Health care is fine with me as it is. That is my point. MOST people feel this way.

Fix the economy, and people will have money for insurance. Tort reform will bring down malpractice suits, bringing down malpractice insurance, bringing down costs.

As for me, I am also contributing more of the tax money used to pay for this bill, than you EVER will. Not to mention the people I employ, and provide a living to....

Not much really

 

[Bobby Stainless]

You mean teabagger senior citizens don't approve because they hate Obama.

In the real world AARP officially approves of the bill as well as most of their non-teabag members.

Quit lying please.

I am not even sure if you are on the same planet.

I was talking about Marijuana reform.

Unless AARP has approved a Marijuana Reform bill have not heard of... LMAO!

 

[slappyjack]

I am not even sure if you are on the same planet.

I was talking about Marijuana reform.

Unless AARP has approved a Marijuana Reform bill have not heard of... LMAO!

This thread is about the HCR bill, not Marijuana reform. AARP supports HCR.

BTW, do you have any comment re: the immediate provisions that I posted for your lying ass? You can ignore reality if you want, but that also means you lose the debate by default.

 

[Bobby Stainless]

Mad little boy aren't you.

The list prepared by Pelosi??? Yeah, let's see all that play out exactly as written.

It's like you guys have just become involved in Politics, and don't get how it works. Half that shit will NEVER HAPPEN. Like closing Guantanamo. Like the Patriot Act (which has been extended). Like the Signing Statements, not raising payroll tax, not raising capital gains tax, etc.

 

[sorcival]

This so-called healthcare 'reform' has less to do with actual healthcare or reform and
more to do with Congress's need to add to the 'power'. The healthcare bill is a disaster
of a monument to an idea gone bad. Mandated(read forced) coverage that you MUST
by law fork over out of your tax from your wages, and if you do not, then you are
subject to a fine and/or imprisonment..and add to that the IRS will be the administrator
governing the wage/tax/health premiums and you will have both the fine/jail time for
your lack of coverage as well as tax evasion and fraud. The fine for evasion and tax fraud
is $250,000 and up to 10 years imprisonment. Add 1+1 and you get a fine of up to
$500,000 and imprisonment for up to 15 years simply for exercising your FREEDOM of
choice.
NO...I say again...NO!!!!!
I am a FREE person, born free with freedom of choice and the RIGHT to decide what is
best for me, not some damn bureaucrat.
I did 4 tours in-country in Vietnam and fought and killed and was badly wounded for mine
and your freedoms, the freedoms to choose for ourselves. Now you pansies want to toss
away what hundreds of thousands of vets have fought and died for...FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!
This healthcare 'bill' is nothing more than a lessening of my civil liberties and my freedom
as an american and a person...I will NOT stand for it. Enough is enough!
Where does congress or the president get their creator given right to make me a criminal
for being an american or a free person by demanding that I pay for someone else who is
sick even though I may not be? I do not pay for your movie tickets, nor your stash, nor
your smokes, nor your bills, nor your pleasures....so why then should I be FORCED to
pay for you when you get sick. To hell with that shit!!!!

ANY free loving person, who is self reliant and only wishes to pay for their own play or
their own mistakes in life will censor this bill and not allow the communist, socialist,
facist style of forced nanny state limited freedoms that this represents.
If you require proofs of what I write here, just google it or visit a few alternative
media sites and get your head out of the butts of the corporate media.
nuff said.

 

[slappyjack]

Mad little boy aren't you.

The list prepared by Pelosi??? Yeah, let's see all that play out exactly as written.

Yes, liars make me mad, because they're liars.

The list is the EXACT law that will go into effect when the bill is signed. Period.

You're in denial because you're a wingnut and you just got caught in a whopper of a lie. Republicans in congress do the same thing.

 

[KnowBudz]

Yes, liars make me mad, because they're liars.

.

That is, unless they are liberal liars, then they are OK!

 

[Bobby Stainless]

http://edlabor.house.gov/documents/111/pdf/publications/AHCAA-Immediately-102909.pdf

TOP 14 PROVISIONS THAT TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY

1. BEGINS TO CLOSE THE MEDICARE PART D DONUT HOLE — Reduces the donut hole by $500 and institutes a 50%
discount on brand-name drugs, effective January 1, 2010.

Thank God! That worried me. WTF? Is this?

2. IMMEDIATE HELP FOR THE UNINSURED UNTIL EXCHANGE IS AVAILABLE (INTERIM HIGH-RISK POOL) — Creates a
temporary insurance program until the Exchange is available for individuals who have been uninsured for several
months or have been denied a policy because of pre-existing conditions.

So this creates a program until the program is ready?

3. BANS LIFETIME LIMITS ON COVERAGE—Prohibits health insurance companies from placing lifetime caps on coverage.

Is not a big deal. Usually people get these to lower the cost, so now they are banned... Hmmmmm.

4. ENDS RESCISSIONS—Prohibits insurers from nullifying or rescinding a patient’s policy when they file a claim for
benefits, except in the case of fraud.

This is already Law.

5. EXTENDS COVERAGE FOR YOUNG PEOPLE UP TO 27TH BIRTHDAY THROUGH PARENTS’ INSURANCE— Requires health
plans to allow young people through age 26 to remain on their parents’ insurance policy, at the parents’ choice.

Extending existing coverage, is not really insuring others. This keeps young people in the system, rather than what most do... Opt out.

6. ELIMINATES COST-SHARING FOR PREVENTIVE SERVICES IN MEDICARE—Eliminates co-payments for preventive
services and exempts preventive services from deductibles under the Medicare program.

Medicare is already bankrupt.

7. IMPROVES HELP FOR LOW-INCOME MEDICARE BENEFICIARIES—Improves the low-income protection programs in
Medicare to assure more individuals are able to access this vital help.

See above.

8. PROVIDES NEW CONSUMER PROTECTIONS IN MEDICARE ADVANTAGE— Prohibits Medicare Advantage plans from
charging enrollees higher cost-sharing for services in their private plan than what is charged in traditional Medicare.

Also lessens their advantage coverage.

9. IMMEDIATE SUNSHINE ON PRICE GOUGING—Discourages excessive price increases by insurance companies through
review and disclosure of insurance rate increases.

Discourages....So are we not doing this now? I cant believe this got a number...LOL

10. CONTINUITY FOR DISPLACED WORKERS—Allows Americans to keep their COBRA coverage until the Exchange is in
place and they can access affordable coverage.

Continued Coverage. Nothing created.

11. CREATES NEW, VOLUNTARY, PUBLIC LONG-TERM CARE INSURANCE PROGRAM—Creates a long-term care insurance
program to be financed by voluntary payroll deductions to provide benefits to adults who become functionally disabled.

WTF is a "voluntary payroll reduction"????????? This is a RED FLAG FOLKS.

12. HELP FOR EARLY RETIREES—Creates a $10 billon fund to finance a temporary reinsurance program to help offset the
costs of expensive health claims for employers that provide health benefits for retirees age 55-64.

These people will just be laid off...

13. COMMUNITY HEALTH CENTERS—Increases funding for Community Health Centers to allow for a doubling of the
number of patients seen by the centers over the next 5 years.

14. INCREASING NUMBER OF PRIMARY CARE DOCTORS — Provides new investment in training programs to increase the
number of primary care doctors, nurses, and public health professionals.

New investment in training programs...

PREPARED BY OFFICE OF SPEAKER PELOSI – OCTOBER 29, 2009

Lots of bullshit. Glad you are loving it. Drone.

 

[FreshlyShaven]

The only reason Americans are not eating soup and bread right now is because Obama passed a stimulus bill that propped up the system. This is a Keynesian experiment of unprecedented magnitude AND it WILL FAIL! Just like it always has.

Yeah, just like the last time we tried that experiment from the 30s to the 70s. What a dark time that was. We really should have just let the Depression hollow out our economy and cut spending.

Yes i could not give a rats ass if a lazy fat fuck dies of cardiac arrest because he has bee gobbling down McD-s for the last 10 years..I really do not care if he dies..

What a compassionate person you are. What about if someone's diagnosed with leukemia and promptly kicked off his health insurance plan or laid off(insurance companies regularly pressure small and medium businesses to get rid of sick employees by threatening astronomical premiums increases)? Do you care if he dies?

There is absolutely NO evidence that government interference ever leads to anything other than waste, fraud, and universally-shitty outcomes.

Except that Medicare is better in every way, shape and form than any private insurance. It's much cheaper, much more efficient, and much less likely to ration care. Out of all the developed nations, we're the only ones to use private for-profit insurance companies and we have the most wasteful and most expensive system in the world. Drop the Ayn Rand and do some research.

So many folks miss the obvious....that most of our current insurance woes are the end result of years of government tinkering. Medicare and Medicaid simply transfer costs to private insurance.

It's the other way 'round. Private insurance companies dump unprofitable patients into the public system in order to keep up their billions of profits. When you come down with an expensive illness, insurance companies try to find any pretext for rescinding your coverage("you twisted your ankle three years ago and didn't mention it on your application form, so we're canceling your insurance"). You lose your coverage, you go bankrupt and then you're eligible for Medicaid. Either that or you die. And Medicare takes the sickest patients(65 plus patients require a lot more care than younger patients) and provides them with better coverage for a lower rate than the private insurers.

We are experiencing a de-industrialization of America. This is bad. This health care bill is another nail in the coffin. More jobs will fly away...literally.

Wrong again. Jobs are flying from the US because, among other reasons, we have the highest health costs in the world. It is cheaper to hire employees in Canada than it is in the US in many cases because, despite the higher taxes and costs of living, you don't have to pay 15, 000 dollars a year for each employee. Health care costs are rising at almost 10 percent a year and it's expected to double within a decade. Not only is it wildly expensive, it's also unpredictable. One year's change in premium costs can wipe out a business' yearly profit and there's no way to prepare for it.

Have fun with Govt. Health Care. They do such a good job with everything else. I will be paying for my private care, and some others it seems.

How do you think a private insurance pool works? How would a government plan be any different?

And I'm getting sick of government bashing. The government put a man on the moon. It built the highways, the Internet, the Library of Congress, and ensured that all of America had electricity and running water when private industry couldn't. Thanks to the government, I can send a letter from Alaska to Maine for 44 cents and once I'm 65, I'll be able to get Medicare which provides better care for less money than any private competitor. In Europe, government-run rail systems provide some of the most advanced travel networks in the world whereas privatized rail systems(the US, Argentina) are sclerotic, obsolete and inefficient. France's electricity network, run by the government, is one of the most efficient in the world and is leaps and bounds ahead of the US' largely privatized system which hasn't been updated since the 70s. I went to a public university, which not only gave me an affordable education but has led to billions of dollars of local growth. Meanwhile, if I want decent service from most private services I'd have to fuck the CEO's daughter. I'd rather wait in line at the DMV than try to use Charter's telephone help line for instance.

For those of you saying that health care should be free need to realize that nothing is free.

Nobody's saying it should be "free". Of course it's not free. It's not free to hire a detective or a policeman or a DA and it's not free to house a murderer or a rapist in a jail. That doesn't mean that each victim should have to pay the costs of their investigation. Everyone contributes to the police department through their taxes with the understanding that should they need it, they too will be able to use their services. That's how insurance works- you pay into the pool every month and then when you do need it, you can take from the pool. Whether it's through private insurers or the government, it's the same shit.

Its a lack of personal responsibility.

I wonder why the majority of people who don't have health care, don't. There are SOME situations out there that are legitimate, but most people just say they odnt have enough money but go buy a Starbucks the next minute.

Health care is expensive, but its not impossible; unless you don't work, unless you had too many kids that you could afford, or made some bad choices (bad drugs, too much food)..

Or get sick. Btw, the average policy costs over 12, 000 dollars. Do you seriously not know people who aren't able to afford 12, 000 dollars every year?

ix the economy, and people will have money for insurance. Tort reform will bring down malpractice suits, bringing down malpractice insurance, bringing down costs.

Premiums are expected to rise over 10 percent this year ignoring the bill passing. Any slight savings from tort reform will be wiped out in a year. Single payer could cut the per-person cost in half and would have the yearly increases.

 

[Bobby Stainless]

Also remember this thing probably will not pass until 2010.

The bill will be VASTLY different, if and when it passes. The thing has a 22% approval rating at this point...

The Cap and Trade bill had been there since this Summer.

 

[cashmunny]

I did 4 tours in-country in Vietnam and fought and killed and was badly wounded for mine and your freedoms, the freedoms to choose for ourselves. Now you pansies want to toss
away what hundreds of thousands of vets have fought and died for...FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!

Which one of the amendments to the constitution enumerated in the bill of rights were we protecting in Vietnam? And which ones are threatened by a health care bill?

And for that matter many who fought and died in Vietnam were conscripted. What kind of freedom involves being forced to give up your life?

 

[Bobby Stainless]

Yeah, just like the last time we tried that experiment from the 30s to the 70s. What a dark time that was. We really should have just let the Depression hollow out our economy and cut spending.



What a compassionate person you are. What about if someone's diagnosed with leukemia and promptly kicked off his health insurance plan or laid off(insurance companies regularly pressure small and medium businesses to get rid of sick employees by threatening astronomical premiums increases)? Do you care if he dies?

There are only about 10 million people in that situation, not 50 which this bill is shooting for...


Except that Medicare is better in every way, shape and form than any private insurance. It's much cheaper, much more efficient, and much less likely to ration care. Out of all the developed nations, we're the only ones to use private for-profit insurance companies and we have the most wasteful and most expensive system in the world. Drop the Ayn Rand and do some research.

Medicare is bankrupt. It is waaaaay over budget. Advantage members are also going to see a cut in premium benefits



It's the other way 'round. Private insurance companies dump unprofitable patients into the public system in order to keep up their billions of profits. When you come down with an expensive illness, insurance companies try to find any pretext for rescinding your coverage("you twisted your ankle three years ago and didn't mention it on your application form, so we're canceling your insurance"). You lose your coverage, you go bankrupt and then you're eligible for Medicaid. Either that or you die. And Medicare takes the sickest patients(65 plus patients require a lot more care than younger patients) and provides them with better coverage for a lower rate than the private insurers.

Not true. That was made illegal in 96. Do your homework.



Wrong again. Jobs are flying from the US because, among other reasons, we have the highest health costs in the world. It is cheaper to hire employees in Canada than it is in the US in many cases because, despite the higher taxes and costs of living, you don't have to pay 15, 000 dollars a year for each employee. Health care costs are rising at almost 10 percent a year and it's expected to double within a decade. Not only is it wildly expensive, it's also unpredictable. One year's change in premium costs can wipe out a business' yearly profit and there's no way to prepare for it.

So we should further burden the Employers by mandating health care, which is unconstitutional.

How do you think a private insurance pool works? How would a government plan be any different?

And I'm getting sick of government bashing. The government put a man on the moon. It built the highways, the Internet, the Library of Congress, and ensured that all of America had electricity and running water when private industry couldn't. Thanks to the government, I can send a letter from Alaska to Maine for 44 cents and once I'm 65, I'll be able to get Medicare which provides better care for less money than any private competitor.

No you wont. It will be long dried up.


In Europe, government-run rail systems provide some of the most advanced travel networks in the world whereas privatized rail systems(the US, Argentina) are sclerotic, obsolete and inefficient.

The UK is trying to sell the Chunnel....

France's electricity network, run by the government, is one of the most efficient in the world and is leaps and bounds ahead of the US' largely privatized system which hasn't been updated since the 70s.

You do realize you are comparing the Size of France with the entire US?


I went to a public university, which not only gave me an affordable education but has led to billions of dollars of local growth. Meanwhile, if I want decent service from most private services I'd have to fuck the CEO's daughter. I'd rather wait in line at the DMV than try to use Charter's telephone help line for instance.

Ummmm. WTF.



Nobody's saying it should be "free". Of course it's not free. It's not free to hire a detective or a policeman or a DA and it's not free to house a murderer or a rapist in a jail. That doesn't mean that each victim should have to pay the costs of their investigation. Everyone contributes to the police department through their taxes with the understanding that should they need it, they too will be able to use their services. That's how insurance works- you pay into the pool every month and then when you do need it, you can take from the pool. Whether it's through private insurers or the government, it's the same shit.

Wrong Again!



Or get sick. Btw, the average policy costs over 12, 000 dollars. Do you seriously not know people who aren't able to afford 12, 000 dollars every year?

Premiums are expected to rise over 10 percent this year ignoring the bill passing. Any slight savings from tort reform will be wiped out in a year. Single payer could cut the per-person cost in half and would have the yearly increases.

Drink it up.

 

[JimBeamKush]

Maybe we should all agree to disagree,

Noone here is going to talk anyone else out of anything, but I do have to say I have seen a better argument from the Pro-healthcare side, All I see from the anti-healthcare side is YOUR WRONG YOUR WRONG without any facts.

 

[sorcival]

cashmummy...you cheapen the lives of every fallen vet who has ever served out of a
sense of patriotism regardless of how misguided at the time.
I did not, nor do I agree with war, its inception nor its conception...however, I do agree
that many men and now women enter military service out of a sense of loving freedom
and being willing to fight and die for the concept of liberty, regardless if any amendments
were or could be quoted. do you think the revolutionary war was fought and quoted
concerning an amendment or just for the basic ideal and concept of FREEDOM from
tyranny and forced oppression?
I also was 'drafted' by my local judge, as in go to nam or prison....but since I was stuck
there, I tried to stay alive. We all did. One of the reasons that can be alluded to is
the sense of fighting for a principal, otherwise we all killed and a lot of good people died
for naught...as did in all our 'wars'.
I believe in freedom, not the 'nanny' state freedoms that the Govt. wants you to take
as a handout in todays world. This Govt. would have you believe that they give you
your freedoms as a privilege, when nothing could be closer to the truth.
Our freedoms are our inalienable rights as human beings, and we all arbor the same rights
and freedoms tto do as we choose - as long as our expression of our concieved rights do
NOT infringe on anyone elses rights and liberties.
This healthcare 'bill' is an infringement on my and your basic right to choose as a free
person and it criminalizes us for being free to just say no, I wont pay for someone else.

 

[Bobby Stainless]

Here are the facts.

Won't pass like this.

Won't pass this year.