Healthcare passes house. your thoughts?

[basspirate]

And that is the saddest fact of all, Bobby, reality comes crashing through with a fury. I realize that my sentiments are just words and that /most/ of us think this way.

At this point, the de-industrialization of America is going to be a bad thing, I think the industrialization of the world was the best and worst thing ever in the first place.

I guess my frustration is that for all the good sentiment out there and positive thinking virtually nobody is willing to act on it, at all. I'm as lazy and guilty as anyone.

This plan, just like any other gov't plan for the past two hundred years has nothing to do with helping Americans, it's about making money. Money, money, money, money.
Will we ever see a large scale movement from our government to enhance the daily lives of its constituents? How did we go from 'power to the people' to 'power to the profit'?


Communism looks amazing on paper, but in the end I suppose that organisms that function, at their basest level, to satisfy their instinctual, biological needs will always be wired to be greedy and self-serving to some level.

Also, you are right, the best way to help a person is to put them to work. I think that people who needlessly drain the system on welfare with no plan of getting off is as heinous as a CEO mercilessly tightening the screws on his worker bees to make a few extra bucks.

In my personal life though, it's frustrating as I go to work and school every day and drive myself into the ground trying to gain an inch and when I get sick I not only can't call off work, I can't go to the doctor and I don't have any way of knowing what's wrong with me. My employer has no reason to offer me health insurance as that's not a money-maker for them. They are driven by the dollar and nothing else.

 

[Hydrosun]

Hey hydro, you've got a great point there, and your grow looks absolutely beautiful. Chasing the dream needs to result in something you can hold in your hands or see with your eyes. I treat everybody with as much respect as possible and give my energies to help those who ask. As my growing skills increase, you better believe that I will be spreading the love to those in need.

I think if we had quality, cheap cannabis for people it would save us a lot on the healthcare side too. Why do we need to treat innumerable conditions with synthetic meds that cost a ton of money to produce when mama nature is giving us what we need right out of the fucking ground.

If more people were actually doing anything at all to benefit one another, one selfless act per day, it'd be a way different world. Some call it idealism, but I think it's a practical truth, just one that is never likely to come to fruition.

Upon reading my previous posts, I want to remind everyone that I'm not blindly in support of this healthcare bill, or in support of it at all, but I do think that we need to look inside and see what really matters and act from there. You can despise this bill and be a completely compassionate human being. It's just sickening to see blatant disregard for those who are suffering and in need.

I mean are we aspiring to be a unified, healthy, harmonius human race or are we trying to live in an Ayn Rand novel?

I am trying to LIVE an Ayn Rand novel. I am modeling my life after Hank Reardon, John Gault, Howard Rorark, Leo Kevolenski, Andre Taganoff, Midas Mulligan, and even Gail Waynwrite and too many others to mention (I, know I butchered the spellings).

The very funny thing is her strong SELF-RELIANT characters never over came adversity through theft, but always PRODUCTION and most often in the face of "A non-harmonius" human race kicking them in the teeth at every turn.

I am an Randian Objectivist, Individualist, Selfist and love my fellow man and his freedom to produce or not as he sees fit.

Here on ICmag I have found an amazing group of people who willingly share knowledge which helps me be immensely more productive; and share friendship which helps me be immensely more happy and connected to my fellow man and this community.

I have shared a lot with this community too, but in the end it turns out I keep getting more than I could ever imagine and I love seeing the best stuff in the universe spread around the globe. So much more happens here between friends on ICmag than could ever be duplicated by a gvt program. Just imagine how much better the meds are to ICmagers than the average dispensary customer. Got to love this 100% voluntary community, thank you everyone!

Peace,

 

[rootfingers]

"Fucking hippies"?

Look where you are man. Hippies been carrying on that weed thing for years so you neo cons can have it now. You neo con types just take whatever you want whenever you want then call it yours. Now you want to take weed away from the hippies?

 

[rootfingers]

'Ayn Rand was a truculent, domineering cult-leader, whose Objectivist pseudo-philosophy attempts to ensnare adolescents with heroic fiction about righteous capitalists.'

 

[Bobby Stainless]

"Fucking hippies"?

Look where you are man. Hippies been carrying on that weed thing for years so you neo cons can have it now. You neo con types just take whatever you want whenever you want then call it yours. Now you want to take weed away from the hippies?

Im not sure I understand this.

Weed belongs to a group of people?

Weed is illegal, and belongs to those who shoulder the risk IMO.

 

[rootfingers]

Of course weed doesn't belong to anyone. Neither does land. We all still try to believe that line though don't we?

 

[JimBeamKush]

This is why we must ignore pressure from the health care lobby, now spending $1.4 million a day spinning its story in Capitol Hill offices (that’s chump change when you consider the top ten health insurance companies saw profits soar 426 percent between 2000 and 2007).


No way americas healthcare is fine I mean check that out ^

Anyone making that much money must be looking out for us!
not

 

[JimBeamKush]

So what are we getting for our money?

• Better health? No. A 2008 London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine study looking at deaths that could have been prevented by access to timely and effective health care placed the U.S. last among 19 countries. If the U.S. had performed as well as the top three countries (France, Japan, and Australia) 101,000 deaths per year would have been prevented.

 

[JimBeamKush]

• The high cost of health care causes a bankruptcy every 30 seconds. In 2007, 60 percent of U.S. bankruptcies were due to medical costs. Reid points out medical bills force 700,000 Americans into bankruptcy, while there are ZERO medical bankruptcies in France, Britain, Japan and Germany.

 

[Hydrosun]

'Ayn Rand was a truculent, domineering cult-leader, whose Objectivist pseudo-philosophy attempts to ensnare adolescents with heroic fiction about righteous capitalists.'

Really, then she must not have been any good at it because 99.9% of American teens couldn't carry a 1,100 page book around for two months, let alone read it in that time. I as a good example of a lazy teen NEVER read. In my thirties I was finally able to study her work, it was my free choice.

If we want to talk about "ensnaring children and adolescents" why not open the conversation with the "Educational" techniques of organized religion. Have you seen ridiculous cartoons and coloring books for many different religions? I have, but I have never seen RAND for Dummies, or watered down Rand for the American masses.

Why the venom? Do you have any cool weed shots you can post on this thread, you know keeping the weed culture alive for me and all

Peace,

PS I am much more of a hippie than a neo con; because I don't want into anyone else's business, and I'm always wishing peace and This applies to my real life too All that being said, my land belongs to me. The Hydrosun empire is a very welcoming environment to those who are welcome; those wanting to use force to steal from me are not welcome. I own my land.

 

[rootfingers]

Exactly, that article very cleanly describes the real problems with our health care system. And tort reform is not the basis of our dilemma.

 

[JimBeamKush]

The alternative health bill House Republicans first unveiled Tuesday – more than 135 days after they first promised to have a bill – would force people with pre-existing conditions to pay up to 50 percent more for insurance coverage. Their measure has no limits on annual out-of-pocket costs and provides no direct assistance for uninsured people to get insurance. Republicans rejected tax credits for poor and middle-class families as too expensive. While they decry our efforts, they offer no alternative even though – as National Journal has reported – nearly half of the House Republicans (84 of 178) come from districts where the proportion of the uninsured exceeds the national average of 15 percent. Conservative think tanks cry for deregulation, but this to me is like trying to get a fox out of the hen house by letting in more foxes. The CBO said a 2005 bill allowing plans to be sold across state lines would have caused about 1 million people to lose employer-sponsored insurance. More bad plans and fewer people insured sounds like a step backwards to me.

Please tell me you guys are reading this.... serouisly....

 

[basspirate]

Hey hydro, I respect your position. Any position taken after thoughtful reflection and in consideration to his brother or sister is to be respected.

I'm one for self reliance, but don't you think the idea of the self-reliant man is as idealistic as the hardcore commie?

Notice that you give props to a large COMMUN(E)ity of people who willingly give something of themselves for the greater good of others. If we were all so willing to give ourselves in other ways, mandatory gov't involvement wouldn't be an issue. I hate having Sam any more involved in my life than necessary. But, the truth is that we aren't all always going to be able to support ourselves and be as productive as we need to be. If someone asks for help, or needs help, why shouldn't there be a solid, structured way for them to be able to make a step forward in life. Not everybody has the same resources available to them from birth.
I feel like those at the bottom of the ladder get the help they need, but what about someone like me who kind of slips into that grey area? I'm not poor enough to get all of the welfare that others get and I refuse to slip into greater poverty just to take advantage of those services; but at the same time my life is literally hand-to-mouth and I struggle as if I were at the bottom of the economic ladder..it's just that thread that I am hanging by that keeps me housed, clean and fed.

I don't think that it's right to greedily take from the working class to provide for the poor-but what about all of the wasted gov't spending, what about taxing the fuck out of the rich? Is anyone on ICMag in the 250k plus club? ...well, maybe some of the more productive of our fellow horticulturalists.

Maybe Gault and those other chaps overcame with life kicking them in the teeth at every turn, but do you think that's what we should strive for? To suffer greatly in order to produce, in the name of higher principle?

I don't think everything should be free, life's not going to be a cakewalk for anyone, but we should at least try to make the best of this experience and have someone there to pull us up when we reach out.

Really and truly, I guess more than anything, is that I wish it wasn't so hopeless for us to achieve some kind of middle ground. Why is everything so left or right?

 

[Bobby Stainless]

Of course weed doesn't belong to anyone. Neither does land. We all still try to believe that line though don't we?

I don't.

The land I own is mine. Try and come for it...

I understand the underlying Native American theme you mean though.

As for 100s of thousands dying...

How much of a dollar amount of weed do you smoke? Now...

Ask yourself if it is recreational or medicinal.

Now stop smoking (if recreational) and send that money to a third world country to save the people there...

It would take maybe a 100 bucks a week to feed a village in Africa. This is not happening because, the powers at be are worried about the effect it would have on the planet.

Less people on the planet, means a better environment.

I would like someone to show me where this Bill will save lives. Seems to me those about to be out of work are going to have their lives destroyed.

Think 20% unemployment.

I don't think that it's right to greedily take from the working class to provide for the poor-but what about all of the wasted gov't spending, what about taxing the fuck out of the rich? Is anyone on ICMag in the 250k plus club? ...well, maybe some of the more productive of our fellow horticulturalists.

The number is now 100k. Family income. So 50k each.

Like I said, I am fine. However, a lot won't be.

 

[JimBeamKush]

bobbystainless if you would read my posts.

So what are we getting for our money?

• Better health? No. A 2008 London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine study looking at deaths that could have been prevented by access to timely and effective health care placed the U.S. last among 19 countries. If the U.S. had performed as well as the top three countries (France, Japan, and Australia) 101,000 deaths per year would have been prevented.


that my friend is lives saved,

 

[basspirate]

Truth, friends; weed belongs to no man, much less any group. Mother Earth graciously gave us cannabis and nothing but arrogance could lead one to claim it as their own.

I do wonder what one would expect on this site besides a bunch of "fucking hippies" though. I mean I wouldn't go onto a forum for fans of kababs and get pissed because there are a bunch of arabs on there. (not that i dislike arabs at all, just an example). Though the herb belongs to no single group, the trend has tended to sway that way throughout history. Nonetheless, it is diversity that truly makes us aware. I think everyone throughout the 360 degrees of the political spectrum needs to have a chance to voice their opinion.

 

[basspirate]

Now stop smoking (if recreational) and send that money to a third world country to save the people there...

What about take some of that money or time and invest it locally, to help a situation that you can see for yourself. I think part of the problem is that people see their money being pissed away and don't see the result of it.

Marx, who I rrrrrrrrreally rrrrrreally hate to bring up in this conversation was really onto something when he talks about the fact that not seeing the fruits of your labor makes one lose hope.

If you took that one hundred dollars, found some truly hurting people in your community and paid their heat bill and they looked you in the eye and said thanks...wouldn't that be better than paying tax to some giant gov't agency?

Just like one might feel better if they were a blacksmith selling their wares to locals who would use them rather than working on an assembly line to make components of a product they never see.

 

[Bobby Stainless]

Oh you mean the UK study that speaks bad of the US...

I think it is a common thread, that no one here is a super villain bent on world domination.

Not so sure about the UN though...

This Health Bill grows government. That is bad. Meanwhile troops in Afghanistan die, Health Care "benefits" won't be realized for 3-4 years, and Medicare/Medicaid are in the toilet.

I hope for the best, and prepare for the worst.

 

[rootfingers]

Why not just read the article instead of talking trash about it. That way you can formulate a real opinion based on facts instead bantering cosmetically. I'll post it again for you:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/ynews_ts960

 

[Bobby Stainless]

By Rep. John Dingell (D-Mich.) Pretty much Biased propaganda.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhHcTwFygJw (Japans GREAT health care)

Listen.

Have fun with Govt. Health Care. They do such a good job with everything else. I will be paying for my private care, and some others it seems.