Vertical Systems

[Mr.Jones]

but dont you think that if the coli's lights were spread out - some on the inside and some on the outside, that it would yield more?

i think coli's use around 2400 watts or so, so i'm thinking that if you have 1000w in the center and 4- 400's on the outside of the cylinder, that it would be much more efficiant.

i dont know how you would figure the watts per square foot of a circle though, pi?
i'm not very good at math.

okay the whole concept of a coli is that the centred lights spread the lights very even over all the plants resulting in a close to 100% usage of the light available. you dont need reflectors which always take some light for themselves. so if you put the lights around the coli you will most likely lose more light compared to putting them in the centre:

more lost light - less efficiency.

if there would be some biological effect which would lead plants to be 4x as productive when they get light from all sides you might could have success with your concept - but well ive never heard of anything like this.

 

[river rat01]

no one has ever heard of anything like this because it has never been done before.

the concept is similer to a t8 flouro system the i just finished building.

the idea is to totally surround the plants with light.

dont you think that if this system yeilded a certain amount using only one bank of lights, that it would yield twice that amount using both?

 

[Mr.Jones]

no one has ever heard of anything like this because it has never been done before.

the concept is similer to a t8 flouro system the i just finished building.

the idea is to totally surround the plants with light.

dont you think that if this system yeilded a certain amount using only one bank of lights, that it would yield twice that amount using both?

can you draw a scratch of what you are going to build? would help me to make up my mind

 

[ScrubNinja]

no one has ever heard of anything like this because it has never been done before.

the concept is similer to a t8 flouro system the i just finished building.

the idea is to totally surround the plants with light.

dont you think that if this system yeilded a certain amount using only one bank of lights, that it would yield twice that amount using both?

Just wanna let you know first off that I can't see the pics you posted (noticed when I quoted)

I've seen your setup though and you have to note that, no matter how many bulbs you put in, each one is wasting roughly half it's light by being shone into the wall, then back past your fluoros, then finally to your plants if it even makes it that far. This is dreadfully inefficient in lighting terms. It's the 360º direct usage of the bulb that makes a vertical grow what it is. Not simply placing some bulbs up and down instead of left and right.

So the bulbs in most of the examples on this thread are getting used 100% efficiently. If you placed bulbs around the edges, those lights would be detracting from your gpw/efficiency because they are not being used 100% 360º.

Edit: You might get a kick out of these pics, rr.

 

[Mr.Jones]

Just wanna let you know first off that I can't see the pics you posted (noticed when I quoted)

I've seen your setup though and you have to note that, no matter how many bulbs you put in, each one is wasting roughly half it's light by being shone into the wall, then back past your fluoros, then finally to your plants if it even makes it that far. This is dreadfully inefficient in lighting terms. It's the 360º direct usage of the bulb that makes a vertical grow what it is. Not simply placing some bulbs up and down instead of left and right.

So the bulbs in most of the examples on this thread are getting used 100% efficiently. If you placed bulbs around the edges, those lights would be detracting from your gpw/efficiency because they are not being used 100% 360º.

Edit: You might get a kick out of these pics, rr.

thank you

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Scrub Ninja is right in the less efficiency area. There is a point of diminished returns in terms of grams per watt of light used. Not only the points of the reflecting of the outer perimeter lights being valid, you also must consider that a particular plant will produce X amount of flower via several variables including medium, atmosphere, root ball size, grow space, etc...
Simply doubling the lights, does not equate to doubling yield.

 

[river rat01]

those are cool pics scrub!

i dont get what you mean when you say, each one is wasting roughly half it's light by being shone into the wall, then back past your fluoros, then finally to your plants if it even makes it that far.

there is a sheet of mylar directly behind the tubes, (touching them actually) so the light is not having to travel far at all. the space in the middle (where the plants go) will only be about a foot wide, so the lights will be very close, about 6'' away on each side.

each bank of lights is 4' tall & 6' long.
24 tubes on each side for a total of 48=1536 watts.
you can see the 5 gal pots at the bottom of the pics - the plants will be sandwiched in between the two rows of lights with very little width, im trying to make it as 2 dimentional as possible.

 

[odin_]

My high-pod mini is obviously just a toy compared to what these guys have going on, but I like to think I solved your issues above very well. I plan to keep the plant pinned to the medium in veg and then grow straight up for a tube filled with buds growing through the lights.

Awesome thread too.

how much it cost to build that thing? lol

ok, heres the pic.

well thats not a coli and i m sure that he will agree isnt designed the same way

dont you think that if this system yeilded a certain amount using only one bank of lights, that it would yield twice that amount using both?

twice the light doesnt equal twice the ammount of yield like i said

for instance if you are already beaming in more light than the plant can use, adding more light isnt going to do a damn thing except make it harder to cool

obviously the coli is already running a very high watt per sq foot esp the big ones with 4 1000s

this isnt to say you couldnt get any gain, but you said you would double the colis yield - not gonna happen my friend
plants only have the potential to grow at a certain rate - the coli prob isnt maximised, but you surely arent going to double it

and i agree that thing is stupidly expensive, esp when people with homemades and stadiums are getting close to the same weight

 

[odin_]

i dont get what you mean when you say, each one is wasting roughly half it's light by being shone into the wall, then back past your fluoros, then finally to your plants if it even makes it that far.

first flouros are alot less efficient and the light needs to be right on top of the bulb - this is esp true for the long tubes, not as bad for cfls

when the light is in the middle, it sends light out in a 360 degree pattern and if you have a circle of plants around them, you will use all of the light

when the bulbs are outside or above the plants, you need a reflector and lose alot of light before it ever gets to the plant

 

[TheBudFather]

im thinking... if you have vert lights in the centre 4x 600w, this is enough light for the plants A: not to stretch while v young and B:flower perfectly.
all the leaves facing the lights will have enough light to produce to full effect. (the circumference of the system is purposely designed to produce maximum light for every plant sized about 1-2 weeks veg.
having fluorescent bulbs behind the plants will probably only effect some of the buds on the very low branches of the plants in close proximity of the bulb, as foliage will soon cover all the walls, I'm not sure how the undersides of leaves react to sunlight... but I'm sure the leaves will still face the 4 x 600w bulbs down the centre...
more electricity... and were suppose to be considering our carbon footprints....
I just think.....if its not broken... n all that.

Sorry lads, im mashed and its Monday in the morning... what a bit*h

 

[Relentless]

Thanks, Relentless.
There are two tubes connected together.
When the plants get larger I place a small cage made of hurricane fencing around the lights to keep the buds and leaves back from getting burnt. The cage blocks light, so if I don't need it, I don't use it.

thanks man.
i notice a lot of people doing vertical grows are utilizing the walls, but if u dont want to do a high number of plants(sog), if u want to do a low number say 10, vegd for 60 or so days, on the ground with lights vertical, should the vertical bulbs still outperform horizontal?

 

[Relentless]

Heres my new flower setup.. Im currently finishing some clones in there, and in 3 or 4 weeks my la confidential and purple wreck go in.. next grow will have shelves on all sides with like 30 or so clones..

 

[ScrubNinja]

River Rat - Sorry pal, I never noticed this got replied to. The thing is, your mylar is an opaque "solid" object. Talking about reflected light, you're talking about scraps. Compared to 100% direct light, it's no comparison. Then you must consider that light that would have shone out the back, where the mylar is touching. The light has to travel from it's source, through a coating that cuts down light, then a thin layer of glass, it gets reflected off a solid object, then back through a sheet of glass, then the coating, then another coating, then a sheet of glass, and it has only now left the bulb and is heading towards your buds.

Compare that light with the light coming out the front of the bulb originally. Which one is best? Also, a flat reflector like a sheet of mylar is a terrible reflector in terms of efficiency. If you look at how individual rays of light will react and bounce off at their various angles, you'll see that a parabolic is a much more efficient reflector. But even then, it's just reflected light. Nothing to wet the bed about.

Now, picture this, my good fellow. Instead of a wall either side of the plants, you want the wall in between the plants. No reflectors involved and imagine for yourself what happens to the light rays. See how efficiently you are using the light now?

I know, it didn't take long for you to notice that there will still be inefficiencies right?

O O O O O O

These 6 lights are still shining into each other, but sheeeit, we are fluoro growers, we get better bud quality so we have to take the good with the bad The only way you could get it more efficient really is to just use one bulb, and that's simply not enough for our needs with a fluoro. Hope it makes sense!

 

[river rat01]

i hear what your sayin ninja.

all i know is this crazy experiment is putting out approx 62wpsf, so i think the results will be amazing.

whenever i had plants that were touching the bulbs, they always burned the leaves- T8s, so i dont know how you get away with it.

 

[ScrubNinja]

Oh they will be awesome buds bro, no doubt! I think I linked you to a pic of this before, but I found the original thread bookmarked. Pretty awesome, huh? Pretty similar to how you are doing it in some ways so yeah, you will get great buds man.

 

[Brazilianfire]

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=125244&page=2

sorry ... it was a certain time below this thread so i figured you would find it ... i think im gonna post a progress report the day after tomorrow



that system looks fun!!!
you could put it inyour kitchen and watch your favorit plant grow!
... would buy it if mj was legal



i think for calculating the systems diametre you really need to know the strain you are growin ... in my calculations for my system i did it like that:

250w bulb means 25cm distance ... flowering an indica after a week of veg stretches about 100% so im at 20cm height: 25+20+5(for insurance) ... so i made it 100cm diamtre ... in my case i use a cooltube and growing sog so i made it 80cm ... for another insurance you could use some kind of fence around the ''critical area'' of the bulb!

i dont know about the pots ...

i like those heath robinson systems - they look so nice and clean

I can Build you or anyone that wood system of vertical racks and send them either to you or your nearest hydro store. They are very simple to build and very nice to have.

 

[~Shhh~]

Ahhhh, just the kinda thread I needed to get my creative juices flowing (along with some lemon haze!) Cheers for all the pics, ideas and designs ya'll have stuck into here really makes my job of sorting out a vert system alot easier.

I'm going to try my hand at building one of these:

I have read through all of Heaths vert threads, and chose this one as I have worked with drip n rockwool/ coco slabs before... but more importantly to me right now....... It's the cheapest!!! lmao I think heath used plants per slab for a total of 108 plants in that system and got back around 1.25gpw with a good yielding strain green giant (a derivative of big bud).

I would also like to build a octagon with shelf type system that holds 24 plants around 2 x 600w and see if it was able to compete with the SOG given the right amount of veg time. That's the project for next year 2 x systems probably give them each 2 runs before adopting one or the other.

 

[rythmic intent]

dude

dude

these are all very tight setups...i was intrigued by the ecosystem.... now i got new ideas....thank u

 

[danishpassion]

a friend and fellow grower has spoken highly of this way of growing so it has caught my interest also
great to keep sharing ideas and experiences and ill be lurking for sure to onbe day try this way of growing out

 

[isthislegal]

This is an awesome thread!!!