15 plant coco grow, recurring Nutrient/Magnesium deficiency problem

[bonecarver_OG]

you are starting to get the point

hydroton has nothing to do with coco in capabilities, etc.

a ball of hydroton occupies space, coco doesnt. a pot with a 1/3 of hydroton has 1/3 less root space.

peace

 

[bonecarver_OG]

The other thing that has made me think along these lines is that my friend who is growing this successfully is mixing nothing in with her coco, something I`d totally overlooked in comparing set-ups as I though it could`nt have a bearing, just thought mine would have better drainage.

im gonna smoke a fattie

 

[opt1c]

 

[Tokesome]

So you think it may be down to the hydroton layer at the bottom too. Mmm. . . I`m thinking it may have a significant difference having given it some deep thought, inspired by Bonecarver, if I was there mate I`d gladly build the fattie for ya.

I`ve just completed transplanting tray 2 and going to start on tray3 in a few mins. I doubt its going to make any significant difference at this stage in the game, but I wanna stop my plants hurting and it may just help the nugs a little.

The roots are`nt as bad as I thought they`d be, a little discoloured by the nutrient and booster products, and one or two patches of dying off roots, but you can see from the pic that there is a big gaping hole in the middle where the hydroton was. I`ve replaced the hydroton with coco after lining the pot with spreader mat to stop the coco coming out of the bottom of the pot.

I`m feeling a little more hopeful today, and if the little ones pick up after the same treatment I may give this cheese strain another go, maybe not though

Cheers Tokesome

 

[Tokesome]

Could there be much benefit in giving them something to help new roots spread so late into flowering, and if so what, Superthrive, rhizo?

Tokesome

 

[bonecarver_OG]

go for rhizotonic it works well

you can both water with it, AND spray lower fan leafs.


its a shame on suchs healthy roots. im sure in a week or two things gonna be better. and it might even be one of the better cheese runs in coco

id give her one more run and also when i see how much root mass that cut produces, i would definetly get bigger pots for next round

looks like she got some mean root vigor...

peace mate

 

[Tokesome]

Yeah I`ve got some bigger pots I might use for the next grow for the next grow, though I dont aim to grow my plants so tall next time. I might go with one tray of cheese and maybe big bud in the other 2. Just had a call from another mate offering some cuts, but not sure what they are yet.

Mind you I`m getting carried away here, its not proved to be this causing the problem, though I am more hopeful.

Here are pics, one of the overall and one of each of the 3 trays after transplanting and a feed. Lets see how they progress over the next couple of weeks. Chop date is 2 weeks this Friday, though I`ll leave em longer if they`ll benefit and may just take the tops down at first and leave the lights on the bottoms for a week or two if my next lot are`nt ready.

 

[bonecarver_OG]

well..

next round will show.

2-3 weeks till chop.. lest see if it has time to do any difference... but im sure they will fatten up a lot more anyway..

 

[Tokesome]

Hey there guys, The plants seem to be showing no signs of stress from having their bums exposed and then shoved into fresh coco so I`m hoping they`ll carry on and fatten up some more for me over the remaining 2 weeks. I cant hope for too much though as my last lot got so far then just never improved, though they didn`t get the effort or attention that these ones have had.

I wanted to ask you something guys. I`ll be taking some cuttings soon for my next grow soon, and need a bit of advice.

I`ve heard a lot about flushing/rinsing coco through before using. I`ve never done this. Does the same apply to the little compressed jiffy net sacks?

What I normally do is soak the jiffy`s in ph6 Rhizotonc solution, dip the cuttings in clonex cloning gel and leave them in the propagator. Despite foliar feeding them every couple of days they always look a bit starved compared with many cuttings I see, even though I usually get 100% root up, they always need to recover once they`re potted when I give them ec8 A+B plus Rhizotonic.

How do I rinse the jiffys, with plain ph6 water? Then soak again in ph`d rhizotonic.

Then for rinsing coco prior to transplanting, is that just a good flush through with ph`d water?

Its just that I hear and read about pre treating the coco with calmag etc. Why is this deemed necessary, is it for those using RO water because of the lack of calcium etc in the RO water?

Many questions, but I want to have every stage at its best for this next grow.

Thanks Tokesome

 

[bonecarver_OG]

good coco like canna coco is ready to use when you buy it. it really pays off to use their coco

i dont use jiffys, i prefeer rockwool tabs

i dont foliar feed clones neither. i only mist with low ec water or rain water, but as little as possible.

 

[Tokesome]

Yeah I use canna coco, in fact I see there is Canna natural, which I`ve always used, and then there is Canna professional. The pro is a little dearer and the guy in the shop could`nt tell me much about it other than its "treated" (whatever that means) and its finer quality, though I dont know that finer is as good as coarse bearing in mind drainage requirements.

Anyway I bought some of each for my next grow, so I`ll see if there`s a difference between them, or whether its just a ploy to suck more money from the punters, lol.

Mmm, I like jiffys, I get a better success rate with them compared to rockwool cubes. I also tried one of those aero cloners but could`nt get it going right.

I`ll rinse the jiffys through well before running Rhizotonic through them.

Wow, I took a look at your Eden project BC, one smooth operation you got going there mate, I`m well impressed.

Tokesome

Ps. What do you line your pots with to stop the coco coming out of the 1 inch holes you have drilled in the bottom?

 

[bonecarver_OG]

the profesional is the one that is treated with different beneficial products, also its buffered with calmag and it has trichoderma added - go for it if you can i use it and i recycle it for atleast 2-3 rounds.

i put nothing over the holes in the bottom - the coco seems to block it with no trouble. its own weigth makes it stay in place. maybe the holes are a bit less - we use cm's over here max hole size i got is around 2-3 cm. also i drill a lot of smaller around one 1 cm if the pot is really big. specially big pots benefit from extra drainage imho.

some small amounts of coco can come out etc while moving the recently transplanted plants, but once they are in the flowering room there is no trouble.

peace

 

[Tokesome]

Mmm. . .in a recirculating system you could do without particles in the soup, so to speak, though a piece from a pair of tights, soiled preferably, to add some of those beneficials, tied around the pump stops them fouling up.


yeah I think its roughly 2.5 cms to an inch, some things sound so much bigger in cms eh? lol


peace, I`m off to bed

 

[bonecarver_OG]

hehe yeah man go for the tights, i used to just put my pump inside a nylong stocking. it works well too... then its not a hustle if some bits get into the rez.7

 

[EvilTwin]

Hi Tokesome,
I haven't quite kept up but you've been a busy fellow. You asked about Jiffy's. They're peat correct? No flushing just a soak like you do. It's funny, on another forum I belonged to...everyone pre-soaked the coco (and some manufacturers do to) It's to pre-load the surface of the coco which can hold lots of cations. One guy explained it to me this way...it's done so that your first 8 feedings go to the plant and not to the coco. Don't know how scientific that is...but it seens like it's worth a try. 1/4 strength nutes with some cal-mag is a common DIY coco pre-soak.
Cheers,
ET

 

[Tokesome]

Well the cf has risen significantly in two of the tanks and less so in the other. Unfortunately I haven`t got the time to flush them this weekend, but I`ve added ph`d water with superthrive to all tanks bringing them down to around Ec14 and ran the drippers until the run off read the same as the tank res, and then some.

I hope that`ll make for a happier root zone for a couple of days, then I`ll flush them and give em reduced nutes for a week before the pre harvest flush week, or 2 if needed.

Hy ET, yeah I been busy, very busy for a 15 plant grow! Its good for you to drop in again. I`m pretty sure the jiffy`s are compressed coco. I`ll run ph`d water through them and soak in rhizotonic/superthrive solution. I might pre soak the Canna unproffesional, but BC tells me the pro bag is already pre soaked with Calmag etc.

I hear a lot about Cations but dont actually know what they are, I`m guessing the molecules of different elements in the nutrients. . . . . I`ll google it. Ah, atoms or ions positively charged, travelling towards negative ones. . . . . . . mmm. . . that really explains all to me, heh heh!

Regards, Tokesome

 

[EvilTwin]

T,
It's really not necessary to be a chemist to understand some of this...but I have to say that my science classes have helped. Ya, cations are + charged ions and if you think about it...many of the most important nutrients are cations. Na+, K+, Ca++, Mg+ and so on. So with Coco, for example...as it ages (like when re-using it in s second or third grow) and the cellular structure starts to break down...loads of K+ is released. That can be a problem having all the cation bonding sites are filled with K+. Locks out other cations.

I'm no expert at this by any means but as a coco grower you should have a rudimentary understanding. That's where nutrient lockouts come into the picture. I've been growing for over 30 years and never thought about cations until I started doing hydro 3 years ago. Yes, you can grow without knowing what a cation is...but you'll be a better grower if you know. And less likely to have problems or able to solve the issues yourself.

It's really too bad that Planet Ganja went down. The site owner there was a masterful coco grower. Prawn Connery was his handle. If you ever run into any of his threads (archived or reproduced anywhere)...read them. He does vertical run-to-waste and gets consistently over 1 gm/watt. Aussie dude.

Well wishes,
ET

PS: Sorry, didn't know they made coco jiffy pucks. Since they're made for seeds and clones I'm sure they're already flushed of sodium (a cation lol)

 

[Tokesome]

Yeah well I`m on a learning curve for sure ET.

I never re-use coco, always run with fresh. It seems a real hassle to sterilise and break down the root matter, dry it off again and then bag it up ready for re-use, but its also a real pain in the ass to get rid of the waste each time.

Hey I been shrooming today, and got myself a nice harvest of liberty caps, I took a few whilst picking, then a few more, then a few more etc. . . . . . got lost for a couple of hours . . . . . etc. Ah what a lovely way to spend a day. Your not allowed to pick them where I live. . . . . so we grazed them instead. . . . heh heh!!

Not dead cert about the jiffy pucks mate, I just always assumed they were coco. . . . oops, back to school for me then

I`m seeing a bit more growth in the buds today (could be the shrooms tho;-).) and a couple of weeks or so still to go, and though I reckon they`ll struggle to put much more out now as they all look a bit hammered, I can see they`re trying. . . . . (defo the shrooms then. . . . . . . )

Tokesome

 

[EvilTwin]

Hi T,
I included that little rap on K+. not because it was pertinent to your grow, but just as a way to demonstrate that understanding cations and what's going on at a cellular level can be useful and practical. Some discussions I've seen go waaay over my head. But I keep trying. Knowledge is power.

Liberty caps...never tried them. All my outdoor hunting was in Florida for Cubes. I'd go out really early just after dawn and gobble the first few...so I understand how you got lost! lol Been there myself. My last home grown batch went into some Everclear (US brand of almost pure alcohol). Worked out that one shot was a nice mellow trip. Best in orange juice. Keeps really well in the freezer too. I ground them up and soaked 'em for a month to make it.

Mushrooms and ganja are truly a match made in heaven...

Cheers,
ET

PS: I have a shroom buddy who is a Dalesmen...you near there? The Dales...as I recall east and about midway up the country.

 

[Tokesome]

Hey mate, yeah I know you were using it to explain. Aye I was wandering through the dales the other day, I`m not a million miles from there. Couldn`t find anyone by the name of dalesman here at IC though. I wouldn`t mind getting a little shroom grow on ET, is it easy enough or is it quite complicated? Mmm those druids sure did know how to have a good party I reckon I agree with you about the shrooms and weed, but I cant seem to smoke enough of it when I`m tripping, but with a canna butter cookie its a real ticket for a good time. Not for the paranoid though

Well I`ve been a busy fella today and started my cuttings off for the next grow. I`m hoping to get some other varieties from elsewhere to go with this grow, but not sure the timing will be right. These were all taken today from my friends grow just before she switches to flower. The plants were looking great, short, stocky and strong branches and short spacing between the internodes.

I got them home wrapped up in wet tissue, and straight into a glass of water. Pre soaked the jiffy pucks in Rhizotonc solution with 2-3 drops of superthrive. I was amazed at how much Rhizotonic rises the ph value, from ph7 water to 8.6. I took the ph down to 6.2.

I then re-trimmed the end of the cuttings, and cut off any leaves that would be buried, (its always an advantage to have the cut leaf wound on the stem as it will send roots out from it). I then dipped the stems into Clonex (cloning hormone) before pushing them into the prepared jiffy`s. A quick trim of the bigger leaves and into my, pretty crappy, propagator, and into the cupboard under a 250w envirolite on a 20/4 light regime.

I usually get around 100% success rate, but my cuttings usually look like they`ve suffered a bit by the time they`ve rooted through, despite having some explosive roots. I`ll keep you updated on their progress and if you see anything that I`m doing wrong, or where I could do better please speak up, it may help my plants have a better start

My prop looks a bit odd, but it works fine. Its a clear bottom with some absorbent plant wicking mat soaked in the remains of the bowl that I soaked the jiffy`s in, to help keep the humidity up. This is not in contact with the jiffy tray though which sits a centimeter or so above the mat. There are holes in the bottom of the black jiffy trays so humid air can pass through. You`ll get the idea from the pics I`m posting.