Vending to clubs, what is it like for you?

[RockyMountainHi]

LAPD, that's a sight I don't wana see in my home or workplace.
And they looked so cool on Adam-12.

I would think any limits placed on dispensarys and growing "On site" - would be great for inflating prices - if you can only grow 5 lbs and have customers for 20 lbs - the price rises - dramatically. Colorado just had a court case about how many paitents a caregiver can have - currently no limit.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

It is time, more so now than ever, to band together and start private, closed-loop cooperatives. They can't ban farmers cooperatives, just the cash and counter operations. (City can only regulate things they have control of, namely a city business license) Farmers Cooperative is perfectly legal.

We just need a crapload more of them.

 

[mikessong]

WARNING-ALL MEDICAL MARIJUANA DISPENSARIES IN LOS ANGELES

In a few hours, District Atty. Steve Cooley and Los Angeles City Attorney Carmen Trutanich will be speaking at a luncheon training meeting of narcotics officers in the greater Los Angeles area.

Before you read further, it is necessary to relate why I am writing to you authoritatively. I have been practicing criminal law in Los Angeles for 35 years, am the past president of the Los Angeles Criminal Courts Bar Assoc. Cooley and I have been friends for roughly 20 years. Between my trying death penalty cases, I enjoy representing growers, vendors and clinics in the medical marijuana community and now represent a dozen Southern California clinics on a monthly retainer basis, and I have been doing so since 2005. If you need more of my bona fides, go to my website: havecrimewilltravel.com. This is not an advertisement. IT IS THE BASIS FOR THE WARNING THAT FOLLOWS:

I met privately with Mr. Cooley last Friday for roughly 90 minutes. With respect to our discussions re medical marijuana clinics, I am now convinced that clinic raids likely will occur sometime within the next week or two. The basis for my opinion is Dist. Atty. Cooley's representation to me that tomorrow's luncheon is about strategy and tactics, and therefore attendance at the meeting is limited to law enforcement only. (I tongue-in-cheek offered to buy Cooley and Trutanich lunch if I could come, but was smilingly turned down. Also not a good sign for clinic owners...)

If the DA and the City Attorney had concerns about their legal interpretation of SB 420, it is my opinion that tomorrow's training would not be about tactics. The word "tactics" connotes preparation for action, and preparation for action when directed at narcotics officers overwhelmingly suggests preparations for raids.

"Tactics" in this case probably means educating the narcs regarding their search warrant affidavits - i.e., what factual rendition that would cause a judge to believe an officer's representation that a felony was being committed inside the clinic. The prosecutors are relying on the last two pages of the California Supreme Court decision in People versus Mentch, in which Justice Werdegar, writing for a unanimous Court, states that marijuana may not be sold by someone outside a collective to a collective owner, manager or member.

The prosecutors object to clinics that operate at great profit to the owners (taking them outside the nonprofit status of SB 420). They also object to the vast proliferation of clinics, especially in the city of Los Angeles (and more especially during a ban on clinics opening while the hardship process occurred).

2) They also object to the vast proliferation of clinics, especially in the City of Los Angeles (and more especially considering the proliferation during a ban on clinics opening while the hardship process occurred).

3) The recent proliferation of clinics is mostly caused by people wanting to make money quickly with relatively little outlay when considered against the return on investment. Our office averages about 5-6 calls per day from potentially new entrepreneurs. Some of you are dedicated to marijuana as medicine. I know that. Others are dedicated to making money. You know that.

I expect that the cops, supported by various task forces and the DEA, will raid a significant number (a dozen or more?) clinics very dramatically and with news crews broadcasting, door kicking, dope grabbing, detaining, arresting, etc. behavior. Some law enforcement mucky muck will explain that the clinics violate both state and federal law (thereby meeting A.G. Holder’s rules for DEA engagement).

So DO THIS NOW to protect yourselves and your patients:

1) Protect your patient records. If you use computers and a modem to run your business you may be a “provider” within the meaning of the federal HIPAA medical privacy laws, and your patients’ physician’s recommendations must be protected. In addition, the medical information falls within Article 1, Section 1 privacy provisions of the California Constitution. I assure you that the narcs will not care about HIPAA or the State Constitution and will seize your records. Let your lawyer worry about that problem. We actually have skills for this sort of thing.

2) My advice: A) duplicate your entire patient list and physicians’ recommendations in the next few days, preferably on computer, and preferably cached in a place that is secure (your house is not secure). They will hit your house and take your computer, as well as the clinic’s computer. Store the records encrypted online or on a CD or DVD or for that matter, a USB transport drive); B) your patient books must remain onsite for you to legally conduct business. However, your accounting books, correspondence and other papers should be removed and stored in a safe place, again not your residence. If the cops want your books, the DA knows how to issue a subpoena, and hopefully your lawyer knows how to quash one; C) The narcs will especially be looking for “pays and owes”, i.e., notes or lists of what marijuana you purchased, at what price and what you sold that product for at a presumably higher price. It does not matter whether you have used aliases or encrypted names. The list is the list and is a nasty piece of prosecution evidence if the disparity of what you paid and what you sold for is substantial. Put it somewhere safe. They will try to decrypt it, and at a minimum, use expert testimony to explain its intricacies to a jury.

3) Minimize your on-site inventory. They are going to take it, so the more you have, the more you will lose. If somebody else gets hit, breathe a sigh of relief after the next round is over.

4) If you are raided, the cops will order you to open the safe. Presumably, the warrant will cover the contents in any safe, which means their order is legal (read the warrant – they have to give you a copy). Open the safe if the cops order it. If you don’t cooperate, they will have locksmiths drill the safe. Why waste a good safe? Obviously, it would be good to have nothing of significance inside the safe.

5) These raids will make no sense unless the cops make arrests. The cops may arrest all employees in the dispensary, or just the manager, or just the owner, etc.. We have no way of knowing who or how many in advance. You probably will be charged with violating Health & Safety Code Sec. 11359 (possession for sale – a felony). Bail for Sec. 11359 is $20,000 for under a pound, $25,000 for more than 1 lb., $30,000 for more than 10 pounds, $50,000 for more than 25 pounds and $100,000 for over 50 pounds. If you have edibles, they will count the weight of each entire brownie, etc. The smaller the inventory the smaller your bail. Assume you or your employees are going to get arrested NOW, not later, and make preparations to pay for bail. The cops also may cheat and weigh the weed inside its container. Shit happens. Just be ready. Jail is unpleasant.

6) Put aside a serious chunk of money NOW for lawyers. If you own a clinic, you may have a very hard time qualifying for public defender or indigent defense legal services. Employees are more likely to get appointed counsel since they make relatively small money. DO NOT put your bail or attorney money into your BANK. As soon as they can find bank statements, check books, etc., they are going to freeze your accounts, and then try to forfeit your money. They also will tell the bank not to let you have access to your accounts, and your bank will obey. Make alternative plans with people you can trust. You are simply trying to keep your business going under potential adverse circumstances. Your business is legal under California law, and you should take appropriate precautions. Think earthquake, etc..

7) DO NOT under any circumstance deposit or withdraw $10,000 or more from your bank. They are required to report such transactions to the FBI. They also may, but are not required to, report smaller cash deposits and withdrawals.

8) If your patients use an on-site debit or credit card machine, there is a fair chance that IRS forensic accountants will eventually be looking at those transactions. Your books must reflect your patients’ electronic transactions. There are formulas for extrapolating gross income from credit/debit card data.

9) The cops are not your friends. If they arrest you, they will not “go easy” on you if you cooperate. They will not “talk to the DA” on your behalf. They will screw you. They are expressly allowed by the U.S. Supreme Court to lie to you to get you to confess wrongdoing. SHUT UP AND CALL A LAWYER. DO NOT WAIVE YOUR MIRANDA RIGHTS. IF TIME GOES BY, JUST SIT THERE AND BEAR IT.

10) The reason weed costs $400/oz. is because it is legally dangerous to possess, grow, sell or transport. You may take the risk out of dedication to “the cause”, but some of you make a very healthy living. If it wasn’t illegal, everyone could grow it in his/her backyard. Stop bitching. This risk was and is inherent to the business, and presumably your prices incorporate that risk.

11) If you don’t have a lawyer, i.e., a criminal lawyer, find one NOW. You will need to call someone when it hits the fan, and criminal lawyers after your arrest will demand to be paid up front, as you have no business relationship. (We deal with criminals. What would you expect?)

12) NORML has a list of “approved counsel”. I am on that list, but I don’t like the list itself. You do not need a “marijuana lawyer” no matter what other civilians tell you. You need a very very good criminal lawyer, preferably one who does marijuana cases as a part, but not the entirety of, his/her practice.

13) Some idiot out there seems to think that L.A. marijuana defendants require attorneys from the Bay Area, devoted to “the cause” to defend them. She has tried to explain the rationale to me, and it is nonsense. We have perhaps 100 times as much crime in L.A. as S.F.. Do you really think some out of town dope lawyer is going to scare the D.A.’s office? This isn’t the Matrix, and you certainly are not Neo. You are going to need help.

If you take this warning seriously, do a mitzvah and inform other clinic owners, etc. Not everyone reads Weedtracker. I already have posted an email to my colleagues on a state-wide encrypted criminal defense attorney bulletin board, and 3 or 4 of us advise our colleagues when it gets too arcane.

I have been giving out free bits of advice on Weedtracker periodically over the last several years just to help folks out and have amassed reputation points to show for it. I strongly urge L.A. CITY and L.A. COUNTY clinic owners to make their preparations NOW. They are coming. The difference for surviving or not surviving personally, for the health of your patients, and for your dispensary is PREPARATION. Good luck.

Charles L. “Chuck” Lindner
Attorney at Law
Santa Monica

 

[movingtocally]

in LA, starting in a few months when the new regulations take effect, the only way to supply a club is to pre-register with the LAPD as a supplier so they can verify you're growing less than a half-pound, etc...while you're doing that you can ask them about tax questions, i'm sure they'll be helpful.

Wow, that is fucked up.

 

[johnnyla]

Wow, that is fucked up.

i think that is going to get cut out of the ordinance as they are delaying passing one as they work out the contentious issues such as registering with LAPD who aren't known for their kindness and understanding. they also have a tough job to do in LA and hopefully they will leave cannabis patients alone and focus solely on real criminals.

 

[mikeross]

Great thread... very much enjoyed reading it.

 

[pugnacious]

We dont use the term vendors. Its patients with extra medications.

I deal with about 5-8 a day. Thats in person, I try to be brief and polite as possible over the phone, but some of these middlemen are really retarded. Majority of them have poor hygiene, obviously on meth, and spit the same old shit.

They bring in there "certified organic nor cal buds" in, and try to pass them off as top shelf products. Kush this. Purple that. But its leafy outdoor. Allot of it looks like stress. Or where im originally from we call.. BAMMER.

Not all of it is that low quality. Some of it is pretty decent. But 4gs? Who the fuck do you think you are talking too? Im originally from the bay. I know what season it is right now. And I know how much you bought it for.

I miss those days where I couldnt wait for the outdoor season to hit. So I could cash up. But I fucking dread it now. All the top shelf indoor is stashed up until the harvests sells out.

So yeah, for all you "vendors". Dont call any dispensaries asking if were seeing "vendors". Dont ask specifics over the phone. Just drop by. Show your product and lets go from there. If its outdoor or greenhouse, make sure its medical grade and affordable. None of this mid 3gs to low 4g bullshit.

We could really use high grade outdoor thats affordable for our lower income patients and terminally ill.

 

[WokkaWokka!]

I dread going to any places and trying to unload product, which is currently outdoor name strains that look and smoke better than most indoor product. In arcata the product is actually passing for indoor and that should tell you a lot. But still it is always not fun taking product around, the tweeker types maybe ruin it for all. My main gripe is no matter what, in the past any figure I state the cost is the place ALWAYS wants to pay less. I even one time stated a low cost that would have made anybody's day and as a matter of habit it gets lowballed that was the last time I tried to unload anything to a club.

 

[zenoonez]

All that high quality indoor is stocked up meaning you guys have it but hold it back? Or do you mean the regular patients who provide you with quality indoor don't come in to vend during and after outdoor harvest? I mean I can understand why they wouldn't because clubs don't pay top dollar for it while outdoor is pouring in the door right? I mean I wouldn't want to get paid 1000-1500 dollars less a # just because the outdoor season is in.

 

[medmaker420]

All that high quality indoor is stocked up meaning you guys have it but hold it back? Or do you mean the regular patients who provide you with quality indoor don't come in to vend during and after outdoor harvest? I mean I can understand why they wouldn't because clubs don't pay top dollar for it while outdoor is pouring in the door right? I mean I wouldn't want to get paid 1000-1500 dollars less a # just because the outdoor season is in.

basic business
supply and demand

pretty common

 

[wonnagogreen]

this guy knows how to ask a question i just learned loads so thanks to all

 

[theJointedOne]

flooded like a river right now

 

[zenoonez]

basic business
supply and demand

pretty common

Oh I understand supply and demand perfectly. What I am saying is that just because some leafy outdoor comes in doesn't mean dispensaries shouldn't be paying for indoor if the quality is there. If a patient has bomb indoor he should get paid bomb prices because we know that the club is going to turn around and vend it and get their end of it.

 

[movingtocally]

flooded like a river right now

With mediocre outdoor. From what I've seen if you've got headies damn near everyone with a shop is all ears...

 

[DankHank]

go right in and sell them what you got for cash or trade. that simple! these shops will pretty much buy anything as long as they can profit from it. i myself deliver clones on a weekly to a few shops for cash money or trade for some fresh MEDS. like today in about an hour i will take 13 rooted clones transplanted in organic soil and will get $$ and 2grms of their finest.. just some pocket $$ and a sack of meds for the weekend and everybody is happy

 

[movingtocally]

I don't understand at all how people keep saying it's flooded. I haven't been here long but I have made a bunch of friends and literally everyone I know personally says it's still wiiiiiidde open. Everybody is looking for indoor, new shops poppin' up every day, the black market is just as easy, etc.

 

[theJointedOne]

yeah, am into the outdoor scene. Flooded with outdoor i should say. I mean I have some super fire organic outdoor trimmed up to perfection. I havent tried taking it anywhere but ive just heard that places will try and low ball me, i dont want less than 2800 for reimbursment but i have heard places like harborside and others try and low ball you for like 2200 and only want one.

 

[Moldy Dreads]

With mediocre outdoor. From what I've seen if you've got headies damn near everyone with a shop is all ears...

Ah so nice to see some real insight.

I know of a club that mainly carries "headies" and pays up to 5,6, 7 a # depending on the fashionable strain and how nice a batch it is. A name is just a name until it's grown right and is a fire pheno. I can't envision demand for high quality and rare herb ever changing, just like any other fine herb or product.

 

[mikessong]

i think that is going to get cut out of the ordinance as they are delaying passing one as they work out the contentious issues such as registering with LAPD who aren't known for their kindness and understanding. they also have a tough job to do in LA and hopefully they will leave cannabis patients alone and focus solely on real criminals.

despite what you think, they've already submitted the new ordinance and there are no changes regarding identifying cultivators. in fact it still contains the language that says all herb must be grown at the club. and there are lots of procedures so LAPD can verify this - in other words you're about to see a lot of clubs shut down. sorry, but hopefully and 5 dollars will get you a cup of coffee.

 

[Shred42O]

they mave have submitted it but it is still under debate

On Monday, November 16, the Planning and Land Use Management (PLUM) Committee and the Public Safety Committee will convene a joint meeting to discuss the draft ordinance. They need to know before then that patients and advocates oppose City Attorney Trutanich’s ordinance. Otherwise, committee members may be bullied into adopting the badly flawed measure.