4800 watt ebb & flood questions... need help

[Lazyman]

Hey Bababooey, yeah I can help you out with that bro.

Check this link out, and once you find out how many CFM of CO2 your burner makes, you could set a timer to run it once about every 3 hours (if your room seals well) for as long as it takes to fill the room to 1500ppm: http://www.hydroponics.net/learn/co2_calculator.asp

I hope you're one of the lucky guys that gets to run a NG burner! I would have to trench across a 100' asphalt lot to pipe mine so it just ain't happening, but several of my buddies have them and I'm so envious!

 

[Bababooey]

Thanks for the link, Lazy.
I dont actually have an NG generator; mine uses propane, but I believe there's a kit that I can buy to convert it to burn NG. Not really necessary, I have a small grow, a 400 plus 600, so a propane tank lasts me months....
Wonder where Mike went to. I'd like to see how his room's going...

 

[mikeross]

Still around guys... thanks for all the help. Room isn't going to be up and running for at least another 2 months. I will then be starting a new very detailed grow journal.

I plan to run a co2 generator running off propane. Anyone care to recommend a size? I like the green air generators... Is the cd-36 model overkill for my room size? Room will be 11x20x8. According to the co2 calculator a cd-36 will take 4.2 minutes to fill my room up to 1500ppm. The cd-18 will take 8.5 minutes to fill the room.

Just not sure what size I need. I am choosing a green air brand because my friend has been using their cd-6 model for a couple years with no issues. If there any other brands or models you guys recommend I check out please list them... I value your guys input.

thanks.

 

[Lazyman]

Use the smaller one, it's cheaper. The recommended on time is 10 minutes or less, so the small one is within that range still. Yeah green air is good, sentinel is good too.

 

[mikeross]

Lazyman, I was planning to use the same light relay/timer that your using, I believe its the CAP MLC-8T. I have since been looking at the dual 240v lumatek 600 ballasts... Each ballast can fire up 2 600 watt bulbs. If I were to get these dual ballast does that mean I can run the Cap MLC-4t to controll 8 lights only running off 4 ballast?

 

[Lazyman]

Hey MR< yeah that's correct, provided the 4 lumatek duals don't draw over 30 amps (actually 24 to be precise.)

 

[mikeross]

correct me if I am wrong but doesnt AMPS = WATTS divided by VOLTS?

4800w divided by 240v would give me 20 amps?

If this is correct I should have no issues running the 4 dual ballast 600's into the mlc-4t?

 

[Lazyman]

Yep you got it, plus some voltage for the ballast itself, but you're still within spec.

BTW< not trying to bust your balls, but I still vehemently disagree that this is enough light for your trays, only coming to 37.5wpsf, but I hope you get decent yields. Most guys would spec 3 600's per tray to get to 56.25wpsf, or two 1000's to get to 62.5. Even if you get to the magical 1gram per watt yield (something most only aspire to) you'd be pulling in 10.5# per crop, vs 17.62# with 1000's.

Most likely you'll get about half that on your dial-in run, but the buds will be sparse and airy. Happy to be proven wrong though man, can't wait to see it in action.

Cheers,
LM

 

[mikeross]

Yep you got it, plus some voltage for the ballast itself, but you're still within spec.

BTW< not trying to bust your balls, but I still vehemently disagree that this is enough light for your trays, only coming to 37.5wpsf, but I hope you get decent yields. Most guys would spec 3 600's per tray to get to 56.25wpsf, or two 1000's to get to 62.5. Even if you get to the magical 1gram per watt yield (something most only aspire to) you'd be pulling in 10.5# per crop, vs 17.62# with 1000's.

Most likely you'll get about half that on your dial-in run, but the buds will be sparse and airy. Happy to be proven wrong though man, can't wait to see it in action.

Cheers,
LM

I'm basing my figures from 3 other members who used a similar setup to stoney419's. 2-600's over a 4x8 with a mover. All 3 have been getting over 2lbs, one of which has been able to consistently get over 2.5lbs. Stoney is the only one I have seen obtain over 3lbs consistently with this setup but hes a very experienced grower and was running a SOG setup. The other members all where running a scrog using about 32 plants per table. yamaha_1fan is running a similar setup with 3 600's on a mover over a DIY 4x11 flood table and is getting great yields as well.

Stoney419 also compared the 2-600's+mover against 3 stationary 600's both over 4x8 trays, same room and using the same strain. These tests are shown in his big sog thread. He tested this on two separate runs and his said the 3 stationary 600's did pull slightly more weight but not enough to justify running 3 stationary 600's over 2-600's on a mover... We swears by the 2-600's+ mover over 3 stationary.

I have seen many members on this site running a single stationary 600 over a 4x4 table and are getting over 1lbs with under 3 weeks of veg time. Double that setup and you get 2-600's over a 4x8... The addition to a mover must help with the yield a little plus you have to factor in the over lapping effect of 8 lights. The mover also allows you to get the 600's extremely close to the plants.

 

[mikeross]

I have decided to run a couple test runs before deciding on the final layout of my room.

I was planning to have one side of the room setup the original way as planned... 4'x16' worth of table, 4 lights on a mover, 64 plants over 2 4x8 tables butted end to end.

The other side will be the same layout just a 5th light added.

I am going to compare the yields after two runs and decide which way works better. I am sure the tables with the 5 lights will yield more but is the yield worth it... we shall see.

I actually have a close buddy of mine thinking of changing his setup after reading stoneys thread lol. He is currently running 2 stationary 600's over a 4x6 tray and yielding about 2.25-2.5lbs consistently. Keep in mind he is growing nl99 from joey weed seeds which is known to be a decent yielding strain. He only has 3 runs with this setup but I think he's pretty dialed in. His last run was the biggest yeilding at a little over 2.5lbs, 42oz to be exact.

So after reading stoneys thread my buddy wants to add a light mover and bump the table size to 4x8. I think I am going to go over there and try and pursuade him to change one side of the room to 4x8 tables and do a little testing.

 

[Bababooey]

Good to see you back, MR. And pm me when you start your thread, I'm interested in seeing this.
How about 4x16' worth of table, with 3 1000w lights on movers?
I've never had a 1000w, but wouldn't you get denser buds with a 1k? Gotta make sure your cooling's up to snuff, which I would bet it is.
I don't know, I should stop mentioning the 1k's. They're good for growing trees, but they might be overkill. Then again, is there ever such a thing as overkill when you're looking for maximum yield? But I guess maximum efficiency and maximum yield are two different things...

 

[mikeross]

Good to see you back, MR. And pm me when you start your thread, I'm interested in seeing this.
How about 4x16' worth of table, with 3 1000w lights on movers?
I've never had a 1000w, but wouldn't you get denser buds with a 1k? Gotta make sure your cooling's up to snuff, which I would bet it is.
I don't know, I should stop mentioning the 1k's. They're good for growing trees, but they might be overkill. Then again, is there ever such a thing as overkill when you're looking for maximum yield? But I guess maximum efficiency and maximum yield are two different things...

I will let you know when i'm ready to start my grow journal. In my experience I like the 600's over the 1000's. It really just depends on that plants. If your doing a scrog setup I would suggest 600's. You can get them really close to the canopy. You don't need the penetration power of the 1000's if doing a scrog IMO. I am excited to see how close I can get my 600's to the canopy when using a mover. If you look at stoney419 pics his lights are extremely close to the canopy and he doesnt get any burning. His buds look mighty dense as well.

I have a quick MS paint sketch of my manifold design to cool the lights. I will post it up shortly... gotta find it.

 

[mikeross]

Here is the design to cool the lights. The intake and exhaust will be square plenums with 2 6" 90's coming off each plenum to accept the 6" flexible insulated duct work for the lights. The only fan on the setup will be at the exhaust end. I am planning to use a 12" or 14" can max fan hooked up to a phason controller. The phason controller has a temp sensor which controls the speed of the fan in relation to the room temp. If the room gets to cold the fan slows down, room gets to hot the fan speeds up.

My friend is using the same design but he has 3 rows of lights and the design is flawless in my opinion. I am not sure why many people aren't using this design in their larger setups. I know a very knowledable member mr.celsius recommends a similar design. Only thing about the design is the manifold sizes and only using one fan. My buddy is a HVAC installer and he says a fan on the intake side wouldn't be needed. I probably going to make a thread and see what the other members on this site think about the design.

This is a quick sketch... Obviously not to scale lol

 

[mikeross]

The intake and exhaust manifolds should look something like this, minus the middle 90 degree elbow.

 

[2stoge]

How hot will the air be by the time it gets to the fourth light? I run two 600 watt hps in cooltubes and what is exhausted is pretty warm. My setup is:
intake from outside>cooltube>cooltube>fan>exhaust to attic.

My only concern would be by the time the air reaches the fourth light that the air is so hot that not much cooling would be happening to this light.

btw Im using a 150mm centrifugal fan, maybe that big 14' can fan you have planned is strong enough to cool it though.

 

[Lazyman]

I've used a 6" Vortex on 4 1KW lights before, and used a speed controller to modulate the temperature of the final hood. I basically just cranked up the fan until the last hood was spitting out about 100* air, and it was still at about half speed. When I air-cool my next run I'll be using 1 12" fan to cool 8-12 hoods, haven't decided yet.

 

[Bababooey]

I like your cooling design. Seems optimal for the space you have. If your buddy does HVAC for a living and he's fine with it then you should have no worries.
You'll be running co2 also, so if the room temps get up to the 80's you should still be ok.
Obviously this will be tested upon setup (turn the lights on, leave em on for a few hours, see how hot it gets), and if any changes are necessary you can make them then. But the concept seems solid.

 

[ogatec]

growing w/ 2x 600w over a 4x8 you might harvest a little more bud than a 3x6, but your buds will be much lower quality. i would rather lose a few oz and not have to deal with the popcorn..

 

[Lazyman]

I'm basing my figures from 3 other members who used a similar setup to stoney419's. 2-600's over a 4x8 with a mover. All 3 have been getting over 2lbs, one of which has been able to consistently get over 2.5lbs. Stoney is the only one I have seen obtain over 3lbs consistently with this setup but hes a very experienced grower and was running a SOG setup. The other members all where running a scrog using about 32 plants per table. yamaha_1fan is running a similar setup with 3 600's on a mover over a DIY 4x11 flood table and is getting great yields as well.

Stoney419 also compared the 2-600's+mover against 3 stationary 600's both over 4x8 trays, same room and using the same strain. These tests are shown in his big sog thread. He tested this on two separate runs and his said the 3 stationary 600's did pull slightly more weight but not enough to justify running 3 stationary 600's over 2-600's on a mover... We swears by the 2-600's+ mover over 3 stationary.

I have seen many members on this site running a single stationary 600 over a 4x4 table and are getting over 1lbs with under 3 weeks of veg time. Double that setup and you get 2-600's over a 4x8... The addition to a mover must help with the yield a little plus you have to factor in the over lapping effect of 8 lights. The mover also allows you to get the 600's extremely close to the plants.

Hi Mike, I was just reading Stoney's thread with his 16X600w lights, he says he got about 9# dried, which works out to about .5gpw. Definitely not a high yield grow, he's getting a little over a half pound per 600w light.

http://icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=2280528&postcount=274

 

[Lazyman]

Nevermind, it was on a different grow, sorry for the confusion...