Question: Shooting Powder- Why dose it in the last few weeks of flowering?

[cali mike]

First let me say that my setup was very similar to Mo Budz on the following thread, and since I was very impressed with his results, I decided to try out his nutrient regime:

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=118074

My setup is botanicare cocogro in grow in 2 gal grow bags, sitting in dutch leaching trays. I got this setup under 4 400W CMH lights, econowing reflectors (ie no glass) the room is vented with a 10" vortex on a Pason VCT-1D speed controller.

If you dont want to take the time to look thru Mo Budz's thread, to summarize- he uses House and Garden's line with the MultiZyme, Bud XL, and Shooting Powder.

The interesting and innovative thing that made me want to try his regime is how he gradually ramps up both ppm of the base nutrient and the pH. His rationale for ramping up the pH is that the nutrients that are available at the higher pH levels (P and K) are the nutrients that the plant needs for the heavy flowering time. Makes wicked sense, right? I think so. So it tried it, with a few modifications.

I do deviate from his nutrient regime in a two ways. First, I recirculate in my setup. Second, I use CNS-17 Bloom as my base nutrient instead of the H and G base nutrient. I do stick to the H and G additives though, with MultiZyme for the first 4 weeks and Bud XL for the last 4, and the Shooting Powder for the last three weeks. My observations and questions are mainly about the effects of the Shooting Powder.

In summary- Mo Budz nutrient profile kicks ass. My bud size has increased, as has resin. The shooting powder is some amazing and potent shit. Two days after application, you can literally see new flowers popping out of the buds. Its a trip. I dont have pictures, but am working on it for next time to further illustrate what it is im talkin about.

In fact, you can have a plant, where all the flowers appear ready to harvest (meaning all the pistils have turned color, and the trichomes are ready) and then you can add this shooting powder, and all of a sudden you have a whole new layer of brand new flower growth. So then you have a bud that is half "ripe and ready" and half underdeveloped.

So here is the question- since the Shooting Powder is such a wonderful flower stimulator, why dose it in the last weeks? Why not give it at the beginning of flowering with a high dose and taper it off? It just dosent make sense to me to add it in the last weeks- and then actually INCREASE it for the very last week. Are we trying to put unripe flowers all over our beautiful ripe buds?

If anyone has experience with Shooting Powder, specifically employing the Shooting Powder at times that differ from the House and Garden instructions, please enlighten me!!

Thanks in advance!

 

[buddin_904]

have you tested the differing applications of Shooting Powder out based on your theory?

i have a similar theory regarding humboldt counties own Gravity. just to inform you if you dont know, gravity is, as well, a flower filler used at the end of flower. i can give you insight regarding this product, however not in particular Shooting Powder. instead of using Gravity once in last 2 weeks like it said i used it starting early flower in small doses, and "titrated" up to a medium dosage by finished. the result proved to have a fuller sativa bud by finish than without doing this method. its a useful product, more so on sativas. i suppose these 2 products have similar ingrediets. possibly some seaweed extr. in both?

I also must note, Gravitys dosage per the bottle is a double strength dose in my opionion. you CAN successfully use it without burning your leaves off! you just need to apply a much lower strength than what the bottle sugests. I, like to start off 1/4 and never get to more than 1/2 strength what the bottle says.

Im sorry i dont have any experience with Shooting Powder, however i hope this partially helps in your theory.

Try some experients with the SP and post the results!

 

[floydfanx6]

well just to chime in,i did a few grows with shooting powder,i dont think it does anything about taste,,what it does,when the buds are pretty much done,and yr just waiting for trichs to change if u add shooting powder,u WILL see new growth,,i dont like it,because its too chemy and very easy to burn them,,also i dont like using such harsh nutes right before harvest,just my opinion

 

[lloyd]

Dude that Bud looks like a bird. does it get you high? or does it get high?

 

[grapeman]

I too use H & G line. I do believe that the stimulants all need to be altered from the general recommendation to your particular strain and technique. My experience with Top Booster is that timing and rate is everything. For me, I would not use a rate of more then 50% to 70% of label for more then 36 to 48 hours in my mix, then flush immediately. The shooting powder pushes flower upon flower and is obviously a good product.

Good thread, I hope it grows.

 

[Oregonic]

Mo doesn't use it, but the reason you're not recommended to use Shooting Powder in the beginning is because you should be using the Top Booster instead. Similar to Grapeman above, I only run the Top Booster for 3 days (though I do it basically at full strength). My strain is 50-55 days, so I apply it at the end of week 3 (~days 19-21).

If you want smell/flavor enhancement or something like that, I don't know that the SP will do that for you, but if you're interested in yield enhancement, I can tell you from personal experience that it will.

 

[cali mike]

Ive never used Top Booster, but it sounds a lot like Bushmaster. Bushmaster stops all vertical growth and immediately makes the plant switch to flowering ASAP. I have had good results with it in the past, but like you all were saying for Top Booster, it has to be dialed in and is essentially too strong to follow the instructions exactly.

Shooting Powder is no at all like Bushmaster or what I assume Top Booster is like. SP tells the plant to keep adding layers of flowers. Im not asking about a product which initially tells the plant to start flowering. I asking about using the Shooting Powder earlier in the flowering cycle, maybe around week 4 (for and 8 week strain). I am suggesting to use the Shooting Powder full strength when the plant is at peak flower formation rather than at the end when most of the flowers have already ripened. I was asking if anyone has used SP in this way- full strength before any pistils show signs of changing color or trichome production really starts up, but after flowing has strongly kicked off.

Also seems like now that it has been brought up- lets talk about the Top Booster. The Bushmaster seems to push the plant into flowering really fast with the added bonus of shortening internode length on plants that are crazy stretchers. What does the Top Booster do? Welcome any comments...

BTW Mo Budz does use the shooting powder in that thread i referenced above.

 

[Oregonic]

BTW Mo Budz does use the shooting powder in that thread i referenced above.

I know, I was talking about the Top Booster... guess I worded it funny. Me and him had a conversation about TB and why he doesn't use it at the beginning of that thread somewhere.

 

[grapeman]

Good question CaliMike. Sorry I did not address it correctly. I like you, would like to see an answer to this question of using SP when the plant begins flowering and not at the tail end of the flower period. I do not know the answer to this question so will be following closely.

 

[Oregonic]

I guess the way I look at it is like this... if there were any benefit or point in using it earlier, why wouldn't they recommend it? At the end of the day all of these companies are here to make $$$.... they seem to always over-recommend how much of their products to use... and SP is a lot more expensive than the TB or the Bud XL... so why wouldn't they encourage you to buy and use more? I don't know... but I know that William Van de Zwaan knows a lot more about growing flowers than I do, so I'm guessing he has his reasons for it. Its also really strong stuff... note that they tell you to not reuse your medium after running the SP... perhaps because to truly get rid of it you'd have to do the kind of flushing that most of us are only willing to do at the end of the run.

 

[cali mike]

well sheeeeit, I guess if I wanna know the answer I gotta just do it! I was thinking with all the beautiful minds here at work on IC somebody might have tried it. Lets see... I got a bunch of bubblegum on week 3 right now. The way my setup is I got all my irrigation on one res so I cant run a true experiment with a control, so it wont really be science just anecdotal evidence. Nonetheless it will still have value for entertainment or knowledge.

Right now these bubble gums are just starting to show flower... I will go head and take a photo them tomorrow... and then I do want to wait till they are at the peak full flower and hit them with full dose SP before any pistils start to change color. I will still follow mo's nutrient regime except tone down the ppm for the sp and will stick to his pH regime- gradually raising pH throughout the grow till u end up at 6.5.

While im at it ill show you some J-27 that is currently in week 8, bout to pull it. This was my first time with this strain and it started to stretch like crazy and It was putting those thin sativa leaves out. So because this girl is in my limited height room I hit her hard with Bushmaster, maybe 2mL/gal in plain water no longer than 48 hours. I got some rams horns, not too bad but rams horns nonetheless. She stopped getting taller right then and proceeded to put out some beautiful colas.

Now im not gonna lie- I suffer from cola envy looking at all of these monster donkey elephant whale dongs waiving around IC all covered in beautiful white snowy trichomes... But these colas i got off this j-27 are pretty nice. maybe not full feature porn level but at least girls gone wild level. I will let yall be the judge cheers and good night

 

[sinappi]

Yea monn DO IT !
So we know too. I'm using SP too and it really do flowers on flowers

 

[TheCobbler]

I'm having a problem understanding their dosage. I use a drip system with at most 10 gallons in my res. How much of that packet should I add? It says to use 1 sachet for 25 gallons of water, but also on their nute calculator on their site, it says to use .04 sachet.. I'm confused... (not hard to do)

 

[Abja Roots]

I use the H & G line as well. Coco A & B , MultiZyme, Top Booster, Bud XL, and shooting Powder. I also add Pro-Silicate. Sometimes I add Algen Extract but mostly only if there's an issue or to the mom's

My understanding is that any of the major boosts. Whether it's Shooting Bowder, Bud Blaster etc.... tell the plant that it's almost done and needs to put in it's last push. At least that's how it was explained to me. I don't really know though. I use it but in very low concentrations. I also ramp up my ppms and ph. I usually start my ph at around 5.8 and end up at around 6.0 -6.2 in the last few weeks.

I only flushed 3 days last time as per H&G Recommendation but it didn't seem like enough. This time I'm flushing for a week. We'll see how it turns out.

I agree though. These companies are out to make money, so if there was a benefit they would advocate it.

 

[Oregonic]

I'm having a problem understanding their dosage. I use a drip system with at most 10 gallons in my res. How much of that packet should I add? It says to use 1 sachet for 25 gallons of water, but also on their nute calculator on their site, it says to use .04 sachet.. I'm confused... (not hard to do)

this is from the Humboldt Wholesale website:

"Here's the trick: Fill a one gallon container (like an old bottled water or cleaned out milk jug) 2/3 full with luke-warm water and add one sachet of Shooting Powder to it. The Shooting Powder will fizz and bubble. Wait for the fizzing to slow, and then top off the water. Put the lid on the container and shake to ensure the Shooting Powder is fully dissolved. This gallon is now an impromptu Shooting Powder concentrate.

Now, you can add 151ml of your new Shooting Powder concentrate per gallon of feed water! It's just that easy."

there ya go

 

[cali mike]

Im gonna go ahead and call H and G USA and tell them the dilemma
i am having, and see what they advise before I screw up my grow. If they just suggest I stick to their program (which is dose SP 1 sachet per 25 Gal on week 6 and 7 and then dose 2 sachets per 25 gal on week 8) then Im just gonna switch it up a bit by giving the heavy dose on week 6 and tapering off week 7 and 8.

If that dosent result in bigger buds with even ripening then Ill go ahead and try something more drastic.

 

[p1ninja]

There is a more fundamental question in this thread that was completely ignored...

Dude that Bud looks like a bird. does it get you high? or does it get high?

?

 

[Oregonic]

dude i would be real careful about launching into 2 sachets/25 gals right off the bat in week 6 but it's your call... and as far as what H&G "advises," i think you already know that...

 

[jocat]

re

re

i also use the H&G full coco line and have wondered about the top booster and the timing of it's use...i just went full strength with the SP this last run and it didn't burn my cheese crop. at 2/25G. it was around 2.0 EC but the buds continued to burst through week 7. then i started a flush using well water from the tap...ran it 30 min every 2hrs for 3 days. it's drying now so i dunno about taste yet.

 

[cali mike]

Ask and you shall receive

Ask and you shall receive

My wife was asking what I was doing on the forum and when I told her she suggested that I call House and Garden and see what they have to say first.

Makes sense- rather that risk a crop failure on my babies. First thing i'm gonna ask is about adding the SP earlier in the grow, and if they suggest against it I will enquire about peaking it at the beginning of the last three weeks and tapering off the last two weeks.

Im also going to see if they will give up any info on what the active ingredients are. There is just so many cool things one can use plant growth regulators for. On my searches I stumbled upon the following site

http://www.phytotechlab.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=10

A plethora of pure plant growth regulators for sale to the general public. Im sure that many of these pure chemicals are the active ingredients in many of our products... I want to change my setup so I can experiment a bit with a control... discover the next super bloom juice and retire early