L
LymphNode
Cool thread, I'll definitely check back in.
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Come and watch me fill my screen!
- Thread starter LadyLargely
- Start date
LOL
Cytokinin
Harvest Time
Member
wow i just read the entire thread in one sitting, i hope we get an update soon, im so very interested now... actually debating on a full flouro grow now along side the 400w hps grow im trying to get started.
LadyLargely
Member
Hahahaha, this thing is still alive?
Sorry guys, dropped the ball on this one.
Managed to kill 3 of my plants, so this time around I will not be 'filling' my screen, so I decided to hang my head in shame and shuffle off into a dark corner.
As for my usage of hormone treatments: Disregard that shit for now. Turns out I was using kenetin, which is actually an artificial cytokinin derivative. My all-female regiment was a very delicate balance. Upon moving to my new grow space it became apparent that balance was ruined. My 100% female program was based on false pretenses. It worked, but at a terrible cost.
Anyway! Interest remains, so I shall revive this thread. Here's the low-down:
Early training is now paying dividends. What where once, tiny, thin, wispy, practically see-through little offshoot stems have been transformed into these:
Twisted hulking monsters! The pictured stems are nowhere near the main shaft, they are not particularly big compared to some of the others. Consider them very typical auxiliary stems on my plants. Not only are they far larger than normal stems of this type, but also denser and tougher. Put your hands on them and you quickly realize the stems have become rock hard! For a given diameter, these stems have far better nutrient carrying capacities than non-supecropped ones. This is why, even though I have a huge carpet of little budlets, I will not be harvesting any 'popcorn'
Two plants left, both White Widows, both female. Weaving continued into flower and continues even now:
Here's a bunch of tops. Most gardeners would not look at this image and say "gee Lady L, looking sparse on bud locations there"
But that is exactly what I think. Not nearly enough buds. We need moar tops! So this happens:
They all get folded over to expose even more growth tips, like these:
They may look tiny and useless, but once exposed to direct light they shoot up and fill out, taking only 3-5 days to look like this:
And from there they rapidly start to form up.
The purpose of all this training is to achieve horizontal colas
Normally the colas grow vertically, with buds coming out the sides and wrapping around the central stem as they grow upwards.
When forced into a horizontal position, the buds on the sides curl around to the lit edge and all grow towards the light. This means maximum light exposure to the whole length of the cola rather than just the tops. Here are two pics of one of my earliest horizontal colas, separated by a week's time:
younger on the left, older on the right; as if you needed me to tell you.
You can see how all the little 'budlets' have begun to depart from the main stem and make their own ways towards the lights. It forms an odd sortof 'hedge' of little nuggets. They will continue to grow and swell up right to the end. Note the frostiness. Usually a cola has the highest concentrate of trics up on top. But if you look at my cola you see the frostiest bits are actually towards the middle. I like to claim that overall potency of horizontal colas is superior as a result.
Here are many more horizontal colas starting to form:
Looking at them you get a feel for the bud density I am going to achieve. The fuckers will literally be knocking into their neighbors; a solid carpet of flowers. And all of them FAT!
This week I will be throwing WW#2 into her first starve cycle. WW#1 has more smaller buds to reach maturity so she'll be about a week behind. After first starve comes proper flowering nutes and introduction of UV tubes. Thats when the party really gets started. Till then, stay tuned!
Sorry guys, dropped the ball on this one.
Managed to kill 3 of my plants, so this time around I will not be 'filling' my screen, so I decided to hang my head in shame and shuffle off into a dark corner.
As for my usage of hormone treatments: Disregard that shit for now. Turns out I was using kenetin, which is actually an artificial cytokinin derivative. My all-female regiment was a very delicate balance. Upon moving to my new grow space it became apparent that balance was ruined. My 100% female program was based on false pretenses. It worked, but at a terrible cost.
Anyway! Interest remains, so I shall revive this thread. Here's the low-down:
Early training is now paying dividends. What where once, tiny, thin, wispy, practically see-through little offshoot stems have been transformed into these:
Twisted hulking monsters! The pictured stems are nowhere near the main shaft, they are not particularly big compared to some of the others. Consider them very typical auxiliary stems on my plants. Not only are they far larger than normal stems of this type, but also denser and tougher. Put your hands on them and you quickly realize the stems have become rock hard! For a given diameter, these stems have far better nutrient carrying capacities than non-supecropped ones. This is why, even though I have a huge carpet of little budlets, I will not be harvesting any 'popcorn'
Two plants left, both White Widows, both female. Weaving continued into flower and continues even now:
Here's a bunch of tops. Most gardeners would not look at this image and say "gee Lady L, looking sparse on bud locations there"
But that is exactly what I think. Not nearly enough buds. We need moar tops! So this happens:
They all get folded over to expose even more growth tips, like these:
They may look tiny and useless, but once exposed to direct light they shoot up and fill out, taking only 3-5 days to look like this:
And from there they rapidly start to form up.
The purpose of all this training is to achieve horizontal colas
Normally the colas grow vertically, with buds coming out the sides and wrapping around the central stem as they grow upwards.
When forced into a horizontal position, the buds on the sides curl around to the lit edge and all grow towards the light. This means maximum light exposure to the whole length of the cola rather than just the tops. Here are two pics of one of my earliest horizontal colas, separated by a week's time:
younger on the left, older on the right; as if you needed me to tell you.
You can see how all the little 'budlets' have begun to depart from the main stem and make their own ways towards the lights. It forms an odd sortof 'hedge' of little nuggets. They will continue to grow and swell up right to the end. Note the frostiness. Usually a cola has the highest concentrate of trics up on top. But if you look at my cola you see the frostiest bits are actually towards the middle. I like to claim that overall potency of horizontal colas is superior as a result.
Here are many more horizontal colas starting to form:
Looking at them you get a feel for the bud density I am going to achieve. The fuckers will literally be knocking into their neighbors; a solid carpet of flowers. And all of them FAT!
This week I will be throwing WW#2 into her first starve cycle. WW#1 has more smaller buds to reach maturity so she'll be about a week behind. After first starve comes proper flowering nutes and introduction of UV tubes. Thats when the party really gets started. Till then, stay tuned!
LadyL thanks for the update. Don't you see you're like crack for us now? Need some regular fix
Other than the fact that Kinetin is man-made, what is the "terrible cost?" To me, if it worked producing feminized males, then that seems to be a good thing.
LadyLargely
Member
But it wasn't. What it was doing was sexual suppression
This process is sortof the reverse of female plants getting stressed and throwing off male flowers. Deep down, the plants that showed female still carried 'male' genetic code. As you go down the line the sex code gets more and more jumbled. This would eventually reduce any breeding program to an incomprehensible mess.
And that, for me, is a deal-breaker. I've prolly already done a lot of damage to my gene pool by breeding with kenetin-treated plants. I'm considering scrapping my whole seed bank and starting over.
Kenetin is cheating. And not the good kind of cheating like I enjoy. Its cheating yourself. Now, if you are growing from seed just to smoke some weed and don't care what happens to the gene pool than by all means use the stuff! But with ethelyne treatment on the horizon and some other possibilities I think that there are better alternatives to retro-sexing than kenetin.
Combine that with the fact that I think over-exposure to the tomato spray is what killed my center 3 plants and you can see why I'm now eschewing it.
Kenetin feminization is possible, but its really finicky. I could tell when I suddenly 'lost' sexual suppression and pistills started to appear very suddenly. I have no idea why the suppression suddenly failed, given my last grows it should have gone on for longer. Its a voodoo practice at its best. Too many influencing factors for it to become a proper, reliable grow method in my mind.
But Kenetin is still a handy tool for cannabis cultivators, just be informed about what its really doing.
This process is sortof the reverse of female plants getting stressed and throwing off male flowers. Deep down, the plants that showed female still carried 'male' genetic code. As you go down the line the sex code gets more and more jumbled. This would eventually reduce any breeding program to an incomprehensible mess.
And that, for me, is a deal-breaker. I've prolly already done a lot of damage to my gene pool by breeding with kenetin-treated plants. I'm considering scrapping my whole seed bank and starting over.
Kenetin is cheating. And not the good kind of cheating like I enjoy. Its cheating yourself. Now, if you are growing from seed just to smoke some weed and don't care what happens to the gene pool than by all means use the stuff! But with ethelyne treatment on the horizon and some other possibilities I think that there are better alternatives to retro-sexing than kenetin.
Combine that with the fact that I think over-exposure to the tomato spray is what killed my center 3 plants and you can see why I'm now eschewing it.
Kenetin feminization is possible, but its really finicky. I could tell when I suddenly 'lost' sexual suppression and pistills started to appear very suddenly. I have no idea why the suppression suddenly failed, given my last grows it should have gone on for longer. Its a voodoo practice at its best. Too many influencing factors for it to become a proper, reliable grow method in my mind.
But Kenetin is still a handy tool for cannabis cultivators, just be informed about what its really doing.
I'm growing for quality smoke. I don't even care about quantity, as I'm getting ready to dump 4/5 of my last grow. I just can't smoke it all.
So whether we're supressing maleness or feminizing males as long as we have Trichome production, I'm on board.
I realize you like seeds, but a lot of folks would like to use clones for this reason.
So whether we're supressing maleness or feminizing males as long as we have Trichome production, I'm on board.
I realize you like seeds, but a lot of folks would like to use clones for this reason.
LadyLargely
Member
Arrg, you bastard! I just read that! Ahhhhhhh, goddamnit, I am sooooo dryyyyyyyy! I've nearly started to consider buying weed off the street. Almost. If I hadn't sworn to never do so again after pulling my first harvest I prolly already would have by now.
But yea, if you have no interests in genetics or breeding or whatever then the downsides of Kenetin usage are few. Just beware of over-use, especially after heavy training sessions. I think thats what did it to my center 3 plants. Because I let them get away from me I had to train them like crazy all in one go. They had tons of split-open stems from all the supercropping. I think too much spray got into all these open wounds and killed off the shoots. Live and learn
But yea, if you have no interests in genetics or breeding or whatever then the downsides of Kenetin usage are few. Just beware of over-use, especially after heavy training sessions. I think thats what did it to my center 3 plants. Because I let them get away from me I had to train them like crazy all in one go. They had tons of split-open stems from all the supercropping. I think too much spray got into all these open wounds and killed off the shoots. Live and learn
That's a great summary. Thanks a lot
K+ to ya. I love toobs and this thread.
they looken really good LL.
i cant believe you would go through all that work with regular seeds, and in my opinon the hormone treatment is a little ridiculous, made me smile that u lost your crop, all that dam work n tinkerin for nothing-
no personal offense its just the hobbyiest mentality that cracks me up, the 24 hour pre feed tea brewing, the bending n breakin all the branches basically, the hormone treatment etc etc, or the guys with 8 differant bottles of nutes for one run,,,,,,,,overkill-
no personal offense its just the hobbyiest mentality that cracks me up, the 24 hour pre feed tea brewing, the bending n breakin all the branches basically, the hormone treatment etc etc, or the guys with 8 differant bottles of nutes for one run,,,,,,,,overkill-
Thanks for the goodwill, holmes. /sarcasm
I love the oldschool spirit and thrifyness of this thread. Keep up the good work, LL.
LadyLargely
Member
Heh, its cool kids, he's got no pics, no link to a grow journal, hard telling if he's even got anything going himself at all. Could easily be one of the many posers on this site.
Yea, I've done a lot of work with hormones and spent all kinds of time with advanced training. But given that I've fed/watered my plants a mere three times in order to get this far his assumption that it's been a lot of work has been lacking.
Long and short of it: I'm still looking at a big fat QP+ of White Widow for like no money at all. I'm not bothered by the little setback. I was planning on a big lighting upgrade after this grow but I think it's gonna hafta wait till 2010. After this run I'm just gonna hit the ground running with another one just like it. Might even sprout seeds off location to give them a week or two head start. This rig has given me 320 grams before and that wasn't in optimum conditions. Next time I'm shooting to crack 350.
BillFarthing:
Thanks for the love buddy, most people get a good vibe from this grow style. Why don't you swing through Club Bio Box? Hit the link in my sig. Lots of other cool cats using my low-maintenance organic grow style. Some of them have yielded much better than I will using my own method >.<
Yea, I've done a lot of work with hormones and spent all kinds of time with advanced training. But given that I've fed/watered my plants a mere three times in order to get this far his assumption that it's been a lot of work has been lacking.
Long and short of it: I'm still looking at a big fat QP+ of White Widow for like no money at all. I'm not bothered by the little setback. I was planning on a big lighting upgrade after this grow but I think it's gonna hafta wait till 2010. After this run I'm just gonna hit the ground running with another one just like it. Might even sprout seeds off location to give them a week or two head start. This rig has given me 320 grams before and that wasn't in optimum conditions. Next time I'm shooting to crack 350.
BillFarthing:
Thanks for the love buddy, most people get a good vibe from this grow style. Why don't you swing through Club Bio Box? Hit the link in my sig. Lots of other cool cats using my low-maintenance organic grow style. Some of them have yielded much better than I will using my own method >.<
Green Smoke
Member
Wether it's work or not is inconsequential as I see it. For those who grow regularly it's mostly a labor of love, not just a way to get cheap stash. People who garden in their yards growing various roses, orchids etc. usualy do it because they enjoy it as a kind of therapy.
Some people are minimalists, like our boy leviathan, and some push the envelope, like our lady largely. I salute you for learning as much as you can and sharing the findings (good or bad) with lurkers like me. Thanks to you, I'm gonna be a master SCROG'er before I even put seed to soil.
