War breaks out within the marijuana legalization movement

[maxxim]

I did 130+ Signatures today for CCI.. Are you collecting any signatures?

Well said Jack, talk is cheap and none of any of this bullshit matters unless were out there fighting in the public like you.

Lets just agree that if it gets fucked up in Cali then we can try it the other way on the east coast.

It reminds me of an episode of weeds. Nancy is doing well and all is good until some serious competition shows up from a nearby medical dispensary thats selling weed, hash, clones and edibles. If big business and govt got ahold of grow fever then they would put everything else out of business. I am for legalization with the rule of limiting grow enterprises either by employee cap or any sort of regulation that keeps us from having weed conglomerates

Another sane post in the insanity....

It seems to me, then, that the moral of this story is to become a special interest.

Your to late Lee beat everyone to the punch.
Shit man he`s already indoctrinating people at his weed college, you got yourself the new Pat Robertson on wheels.

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We can accomplish taking out the prison and legal aspects and allow unlimited growing through just decriminalization, it would in fact meet the goals of reform would it not.
Really the only reason were talking about legalization is to tax it for the money and to create jobs, otherwise we can just decriminalize weed.

Why would anyone even think that legalization would not bring taxes with it? There is virtually no product that you walk out of a store with that you did not pay taxes on why in the world would you think that people are just going to say its ok for the pot smokers and the people who profit from it are not going to have to pay taxes? Do some of you even listen to yourselves?

No I`m not going to start a company that dosen`t have to pay taxes on its product.....

 

[Zealious]

Man you guys just dont get it. Its going to be like wine and beer. there will be a lot of small buissinesses. Agribussiness can not meet the demands of the the market when their whole model is based around one or two strains of tasteless apple. There are too many strains of cannabis and different ways of curing buds. There is cannabis food. there is hash.. its too diverse of a market for agribusiness to get a hold of, and pigeon hole it into some mass produced Marlboro shit. Think of all the small winerys and the microbrewerys..

Weed is going to get taxed like alcohol
weed will follow the same business model as well, and there will be a lot of different "micro groweries" of all the wonderful strains of pot in existence. Even in California where its as legal as it gets. the price of weed is still high. the demand is still high. and the people want quality and variety more than ever..

seriously. malboro is not a threat.

and if your whole existence is built around the black market then just find somethng else thats illegal to get into, if you dont want to start your own micro growery you could get into heroin... or meth I hear thats getting big.

Stop being selfish. The bottom line: the only way to get it legalized is through taxation. period. Like i said.. stop fighting amongst your own supporters. and fight the good fight with the government to make sure the taxes get spent in a proper way.

We all just want it legal. For all the poor souls in jail, and all the poor people that have died from the drug war and for all the sick people that will benifit..

Legalize it, tax it, and regulate it.

The end.

 

[nephilthim]

crap the problems I have had with 215 I have no desire to fund any goverment that is critical of medicinal marijuana.grreat the goverment can hate me and juice me for taxes at the same time .no f the goverment pot is not like alcohol or cigarrettes it's better,and you can spin your propoganda about what you think is a forgone conclusion,
no you stop being selfish for telling me what I should believe mind your own fucking house unless you want to butter my bread pay my taxes or wipe my ass.
I don't deign to believe your crap about agribusiness they have enough economies of scale,money to have marijuanaboros selling less than cigarettes after all its is just a plant.none of you have a crystal ball so can't or won't does not mean will not or cannot.
we already have effective legislation in prop215 without your taxes,regulation or any other b.s.

 

[mriko]

Aren't the Compassion Club abusive rates due to the fact that cannabis market is not regulated ?
By the way, if not the weed, I think that WATTS should be taxed. Mountains in Appalachian range are simply being erased from the map in order to feed America's never-ending energy need and I think it's quite a hard price to pay for some indoor buds.
Unregulated MJ legalization could prove a huge blow to policies aiming at countering (or rather lowering) global warming because loads of people would therefore indulge in growing their own, using (if not wasting) 1000s of watts doing so.
The indoor scene is already by itself a huge hidden ecological disaster, and would the things become legal, my, it would be even more disastrous.

That's why regulation would be needed. You just can't let every user set up multi-1000 watts grow op at home. There should be a fixed maximum wattage per head or home, which should be taxed at reasonnable level, and increased taxes for those who wants to go beyond the limit. yeah, without a doubt watts should be taxed !

Irie !

 

[maxxim]

Man you guys just dont get it. Its going to be like wine and beer. there will be a lot of small buissinesses. Agribussiness can not meet the demands of the the market when their whole model is based around one or two strains of tasteless apple. There are too many strains of cannabis and different ways of curing buds. There is cannabis food. there is hash.. Think of all the small winerys and the microbrewerys..

Imagine how many more micro brews would be out there if Bud and all the rest of the supermarket beer wasn`t out there also. I wouldn`t call micro brewing a huge sucess either.

Agribusiness cannot meet demands.... LOL..... Have you ever been in a supermarket.... There is no demand that a company cannot fulfill.

 

[nephilthim]

this all your opine. are you people munching goofballs?what is every parking lot, facility,industrial site hps lighting!! lots of em.spewing a bunch of b.s.that is biased conjecture with out any statisitical evidence to back up your claims.
arent the compassionate clubs abusive rates due to an unregulated marijuna market?
i am going to tear this sentance down:first of compassion is a subjective term entirely left
to the individuals interpretation,abusive rates another subjective term left to indivdual interpretation.how is market regulation which would cost money?!from whom?equate to lower prices?oh your going to controll a black market by regulating it???you asssume facts not in evidence by positing regulation with lower prices,does this mean quality too?since your going to set prices for me are you going to interpret what mj I can have too?
equating indoor growing with global warming is an unsubstantiated position,without any
statistics to back up your far flung claims.much like me peeing in your face and calling it lemonade.if you are going to argue; instead of doing your beliefs disservice take the time to back up your claims with something other than your bias.

 

[PharmaCan]

this all your opine.

i am going to tear this sentance down:

ROFL - Don't you think it would be a good idea if you learned how to write a sentence before you go around trying to critique them.

BTW - opine is a verb, not a noun.

Agribusiness cannot meet demands.... LOL..... Have you ever been in a supermarket.... There is no demand that a company cannot fulfill.

I suppose that there is a segment of the pot smoking public, those that only have access to brick weed, who might consume the crap that we can expect from agri-business. However, there will always also be a segment that knows what good weed is and would do without rather than pay for the crap that we can expect from agri-biz. That being said, at this point it is all speculation. No one has a crystal ball and we are ALL just guessing what will happen.

Some hint of what might happen is the case of Cuban cigars. If you have ever smoked a Cuban cigar, there is absolutely no comparison to anything else on the market. Although Cuban cigars here are available only on the black market, which means their price is not a true indication of market value, once they are re-legalized they will still retain a premium price on the legal market simply because they are a superior product.

When talking about the future market for re-legalized mj, the models of the wine and cigar markets will probably be the closest thing to the model of the mj market.

But, once again, like everyone else, I'm just guessing.

PC

 

[Pistil_Party09]

no matter how many americans would grow there own, theres still going to be a HUGE demand for weed that wasnt homegrown, it takes alot of effort to grow A++++ weed and im willing to bet theres alot of people out there who dont care if they have to buy it just like..EVERYTHING ELSE in america...did home breweries stop big alcho in its tracks? nope didnt even put a dent in it....no matter how you look at it, there a HUGE market for cannabis and someone is going to be making big $$ off of it. thats america, get over it...to think that cannabis could be completely legal without being taxed or regulated in some way is an old hippies pipe dream. corporate greed runs this country....you cant expect to get a bill passed unless it at least remotely benefits the elite...thats why lee's running on a tax and regulate model. we can ditch this model after it passes people...
if anyone disagrees i recommend you read fatigues post on page 1&2 of this thread. i agree with his/her view 100%

 

[PharmaCan]

we can ditch this model after it passes people...

Here's the thing - NO YOU CAN'T!!!

Most of your post is very realistic, but thinking that the legislature will change the bill to make it better is foolish. Government nowadays doesn't make things better, only worse.

PC

 

[Pistil_Party09]

you might be right but once cannabis gains that much ground with americans and politicians an "unfair tax" wont stick around long...re-read fatigues posts...he hit the nail on the head.
plus, 99% of people that are growing right now are doing it illegally wether they're over their plant limit, or theyre just in a draconian state, even if it was heavily taxed, those people will still be growing it, plus once its legal how much money do you think the DEA is going to spend using FLIR on people houses who are growing 20 plants? or flying around in hellacocksuckers looking for plants amongst the other plants...get real...plus, how many americans do you think are out there dodging taxes right now? alot. corporations do it all the time.

 

[PharmaCan]

you might be right but once cannabis gains that much ground with americans and politicians an "unfair tax" wont stick around long...re-read fatigues posts...he hit the nail on the head.

ROFL - No offense but you really need to get a better grip on reality!

Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

PC

 

[Pistil_Party09]

you do know that the feds want us to argue like this..it makes their job easier. capatalism will drive "unfair taxes" into the ground...just like the tobacco lobbyists fight with all their power to keep taxes off of cigarettes, except cigarettes actually harm people.
i have a firm grip on reality, just like Fatigues, it seems all you people who think somehow mj will be legalized without taxes and corporations having a peice of the pie are the ones who dont have a grip on reality...why dont you support a bill that actually has a chance of passing>? you keep forgetting how many more people will use cannabis once its legalized, and how BIG of an impact it will have on society, every state will adopt their own laws and regulations and any unfair "sin" taxes will be pulled once enough people realize theres no harm associated with cannabis..thats like putting a sin tax on carrots...come on.

 

[fatigues]

I did 130+ Signatures today for CCI.. Are you collecting any signatures?

No. I’m not a resident of California

Do you have a passion in this cultural change?

Passions? Sure. Just being interested in this at all betrays my passion for the topic. That said, I don’t let my emotions get in the way of good sense and sound political strategy.

I see you write that you support what will win. Is that like hanging out a t a fight and trying to be seen supporting the winner all along?

No. You misunderstand. I could personally live with the terms of either ballot initiative. So as a matter of personal preference, it doesn’t much matter to me. Because I am not a resident of California, my concern is with the effect a success or failure of an initiative will have on a wider political stage.

Because we are all vested in having to live with the fallout of a ballot victory – or its defeat. So I’m concerned about seeing there is a victory if it is at all possible. And if it isn’t, I’d rather neither initiative ever made it to the ballot at all. There is less negative political fallout on the rest of us that way.

Sorry if the ugly realities of politics are intruding on your idealism here. But this IS a political process.

So my interest is instead pre-occupied with the practical issue of ensuring that the public is not confused by similar ballot initiatives at the same polling booth. There is NO WAY the public will be able to remember which is which – nor will 98% of them care even if they could.

I am concerned about potential critical vote splits at the polling stations and in the effect gay-marriage initiatives will have on bringing too many conservatives to the polling stations in November 2010. Turning out people who might not otherwise show up to vote in a non-Presidential election year who are likely to vote against any marijuana legalization initiative.

I am also worried about this schism we have been discussing splitting the activists on the ground. Grass-root initiative workers like yourself are a valuable commodity and are in limited supply; there are only so many to go around. If there are not adequate signatures collected, it would be tragic if neither initiative got to the polls because the ground workers were spread too much between the two initiatives instead of everyone pitching in to place their bets on the initiative with the best hope of success. That’s the danger of infighting Jack – and it’s real.

So I don’t care which one wins, as long as one of them does. That said, the best chance of winning is 2010 is, in my view, Lee’s initiative as it is, as between the two, less extreme and a compromise that more moderate voters in the State of California are likely to be able to live with.

Those who contribute to a schism or who let their idealism get in the way of real chance of the best chance for victory are total political amateurs, imo. But....that’s often the case when it comes to ballot initiatives. The grass roots nature of ballot initiatives and the sincere passions of the grass-roots involved in them is what makes them so powerful, so engaging, and yes – so dangerous.

In any event, the worst case scenario is that both initiatives qualify for the ballot. I would far prefer that the CCI got enough votes and Lee’s did not, if that meant there would be only one initiative before voters in November 2010. Two initiatives is a potentially tragic prescription for disaster.

You may see this as a purely local ballot initiative representing things you passionately care about. I get that and I understand it too. My passions are focused on a much wider and bigger picture, because this initiative can have not only national implication, but international implications as well and so the indirect fallout could be HUGE. There is, quite simply, more than California’s pot laws riding on this. With heightened expectations comes heightened political risk: the whole world is watching.

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

omg this is becoming like the health care debate, and we are just gonna be fucked in the end no matter what passes or doesnt pass.

 

[Unsane]

My passions are focused on a much wider and bigger picture, because this initiative can have not only national implication, but international implications as well and so the indirect fallout could be HUGE. There is, quite simply, more than California’s pot laws riding on this. With heightened expectations comes heightened political risk: the whole world is watching.

Thank you for reminding all of us Californians about the wider implications of our success or failure.

However, I do not think that a defeat at the ballot would be deathblow to the legalization movement. In fact, it might not even be damaging at all. I think that even if we lose in 2010 we will have mobilized a large enough so that we will surely win in 2012. But, who knows: it's really up us.

I am optimistic that if enough drug reformers in California devote their heart and soul to the campaign that we will eventually win (well, that and a large war chest...). In other words, we need an army of JackTheGrowers.

On a side note: 2012 is also, if I remember correctly, the election year when drug reformers in Arizona want to legalize cannabis in their state.

 

[PkRipper]

California cant even keep ONE LAW straight,,,,,,,,,
look at the medical laws in place in ca that are supposed to protect people from arrest for personel MEDICAL use,cultivation but still as we type this there another med patient in ca getting arrested and put on trial





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I call to draw a new ballot measure,
one to split cali in half ,,,yep make two seprate states./
So-Cal
and
Nor-Cal

Im not sure you all will like the rest of the plan,,

first lets start with so-cal wil get in this divorce.
so cal gets all the people in LA .orange and the LB
also everything up to bakersfield is yours ,take it.
also disney land can stay but the fuckin mouse must retire already.
next is the water ......well get your own ,cuss the north just cut you off for having deals sellling it under the table to mexico....possanly in trade for red brick weed se dont know but as part of the deal no part of nor cal will never alloer brick weed here agin.
also the south assumes all state debt. its all your so cal goveners who keep terminating the countries strongest farming industrys economy .

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In this split the new state of Nor-Cal shall be debt free and allowed to keep all our water to farm marijuana and hemp,. any industry related will be welcomed ,yet taxed for everything but medical and religon use.
also will have mj farmers markets and seed banks in every town ,,
any person in jail has a choice of tending pot fields or staying in jail and washing the clothes for the guys who go out and tend pot fields .
also
not to be a dick but we have to put up a fence inbetween the top and bottom to sepperate the to new states.

in this deal the north gets all the hippies and good lookin stoner chicks....

the south gets all the movie stars

the north gets a few good resturants from down there but in return you can have all of our starbucks...

also the south must take all polaticians pot friendly or not the got to go.
so the north will take charlymanson instead
maybe even snoop dog we will see i guess

then for fairness the south can have one town from up here to do as you please with ,so oakland is going to so cal. dont tell the raiders. but trust the do belong down there,

we get chong up north the south get chich.

 

[Oafonic]

this was bound to happen, I think most could expect this.

 

[maxxim]

However, I do not think that a defeat at the ballot would be deathblow to the legalization movement. In fact, it might not even be damaging at all. I think that even if we lose in 2010 we will have mobilized a large enough so that we will surely win in 2012. But, who knows: it's really up us.

Well the good thing is that the worse it gets for the public the better it gets for us. For us we can see the bright side of huge unemployment numbers and states falling short on revenue. Legalization would sell pretty easily to the public if we could show them that we have more to offer then just wanting to get high.

it takes alot of effort to grow A++++ weed

So much effort that you can do it stoned..... Really man I see the kids at the hydro store and they are not geniuses....

I suppose that there is a segment of the pot smoking public, those that only have access to brick weed, who might consume the crap that we can expect from agri-business. However, there will always also be a segment that knows what good weed is and would do without rather than pay for the crap that we can expect from agri-biz. That being said, at this point it is all speculation. No one has a crystal ball and we are ALL just guessing what will happen.

Ahhh yes the "man" couldn`t possibly put out better weed then your closet, you know with their state of the art indoor football fields of hydro that are computer fed exacting nutrients and maintaining a perfect PH with actual geneticists perfecting the strains. Their automatic conveyor belts feeding say 50-100 rolling thunder trimmers. Then they wouldn`t build a dryer that perfects bud drying to perfection and finds a better way to cure the final product.
Yea your right your going to totally blow them away with your back yard, garage weed from the seeds that you bought off seedbay or high times and crossed to make your own "strain". People get real....
Most of the smokers out there don`t care about flavor or strain they just want to get fucked up for the least amount of money.

 

[anikas88]

Everyone here has a good point, although i dont favor taxing and regulating cannabis. Maybe a revised version where there is some regulation but I guess the devil is in the details.

 

[Blue Dot]

Ahhh yes the "man" couldn`t possibly put out better weed then your closet, you know with their state of the art indoor football fields of hydro that are computer fed exacting nutrients and maintaining a perfect PH with actual geneticists perfecting the strains. Their automatic conveyor belts feeding say 50-100 rolling thunder trimmers. Then they wouldn`t build a dryer that perfects bud drying to perfection and finds a better way to cure the final product.
Yea your right your going to totally blow them away with your back yard, garage weed from the seeds that you bought off seedbay or high times and crossed to make your own "strain". People get real.....

I agree 100%.

In my many years on this planet I have seen many changes to cigarettes, from fashionable on movies screens to banned in movie theaters, from congress smoking at hearings to surgeon general warnings on labels, etc but I have never EVER once heard anyone complain about the quality of cigarettes.

I don't smoke cigarettes myself but people complain about the price, the taxes on them, the laws to only smoke outside, etc but never say,
"Goddamn, this tobacky is wack, why can't they grow it better."

Here's a funny story: I was buying beer the other day in the supermarket, $10.99/12/pk

Then I had to buy toilet paper, it was $8.99 for 8 rolls.

Wait, did I just learn that a roll of toilet paper is f*ckin more expensive then a beer?

I thought alcohol was hard to produce, heavier to ship (because of the glass bottles) and taxed greatly? Guess not.