G
Greyskull
yep bali sounds like you went to war
props to you for sharing your information
props to you for sharing your information
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Phylloxera information - aka root mites aka root aphids
- Thread starter Scay Beez
- Start date
Scay Beez
Active member
bali man - Good work soldier! I like the attention to detail and thoroughness. You are a more brave than I am when it comes to nuclear warfare. Yeah, the only thing that can cause more damage to your plants than root aphids is a shady grow partner or LEO.
I cleaned out my room and left it vacant for a week and a half. Cleaned and solarized all my pots. I wrapped them in plastic and let them sit in over 100 degree weather in direct sun for three days. I took the current mix of soil and it is getting solarized for at least a week and then into a compost pile that I will make sure is real hot. Meanwhile I had clones in domes in a different room with mosquito netting on the intakes and the door (with a zipper). I didn't go into the clone room at all for that time period. Things have started to root up and I just planted up some babies in the original room which has been clean and vacant. All the leaves are standing straight up. These bugs are fast and aggressive so if there is no food for them and all the eggs are hatched it's green light.
Looking forward to your update, bali man!
- sbz
I cleaned out my room and left it vacant for a week and a half. Cleaned and solarized all my pots. I wrapped them in plastic and let them sit in over 100 degree weather in direct sun for three days. I took the current mix of soil and it is getting solarized for at least a week and then into a compost pile that I will make sure is real hot. Meanwhile I had clones in domes in a different room with mosquito netting on the intakes and the door (with a zipper). I didn't go into the clone room at all for that time period. Things have started to root up and I just planted up some babies in the original room which has been clean and vacant. All the leaves are standing straight up. These bugs are fast and aggressive so if there is no food for them and all the eggs are hatched it's green light.
Looking forward to your update, bali man!
- sbz
attila76
Member
Possible root Aphids- pictures
Possible root Aphids- pictures
Hi all,
Great thread. I found this too late perhaps. Good advice all around. But I culled my entire crop as a result of these things.
I realized that I would have to continue fighting forever if I kept anything alive in the g-room.
Beach, beach, beach, I say, arg..
Anyway check out the pictures. I used my iphone and a hand held microscope at 60X. One pict is a zoom in edit.
Is this what you guys got?
Possible root Aphids- pictures
Hi all,
Great thread. I found this too late perhaps. Good advice all around. But I culled my entire crop as a result of these things.
I realized that I would have to continue fighting forever if I kept anything alive in the g-room.
Beach, beach, beach, I say, arg..
Anyway check out the pictures. I used my iphone and a hand held microscope at 60X. One pict is a zoom in edit.
Is this what you guys got?
Attachments
Scay Beez
Active member
Hard to tell from the pics but it definitely looks like them. They are tiny bastards. Sorry to hear about the loss.
I'm having to add a cut only policy, quaranteen incoming cuts, and incoming soil sterilization/composting steps now. They are easy to get rid of once the all the infected soil is gone and the room has been cleaned, IME.
- sbz
I'm having to add a cut only policy, quaranteen incoming cuts, and incoming soil sterilization/composting steps now. They are easy to get rid of once the all the infected soil is gone and the room has been cleaned, IME.
- sbz
Agreed. I couldnt get rid of mine for the life of me...
I used some imid on a couple moms and some just rooted clones and the problem vanished. They haven't come back after the first dose. I do keep things meticulously clean, though; and I think that makes all the difference.
attila76
Member
Post war Reconstruction:
A story of a come back
Well after clearing the room of all plants, disassemble all parts, soaking everything in beach, scrubbing every bucket down with a thick brush, reassembling all parts, I decided to redesign my DWC system to improve on a number of problems that I had with the last design.
Here is what I jsut set up (see picts):
recirculating temp controled soliution,
ebb and grow/ aeroponics 6 bucket system.
Under 2 X1000 watts MH
temps 72- 80 f
water temps 67 f
steady CO2 kept at 1200 ppm via PPM3 controler
I just got lucky. After a fruitless search here in Colorado where good clones are hard to come by I went on a hunt. Thru a friend I got 14 large rooted veg plants in rockwool, strain: Grape Ape X Big Bud, X Venom.
Five went in soiless mix, for a backup in case of another failure.
Three went into a bucket singly.
Six went in two per bucket. (I got extras as a bonus, so hey what else am I to do?)
Nice... check the picts.
A story of a come back
Well after clearing the room of all plants, disassemble all parts, soaking everything in beach, scrubbing every bucket down with a thick brush, reassembling all parts, I decided to redesign my DWC system to improve on a number of problems that I had with the last design.
Here is what I jsut set up (see picts):
recirculating temp controled soliution,
ebb and grow/ aeroponics 6 bucket system.
Under 2 X1000 watts MH
temps 72- 80 f
water temps 67 f
steady CO2 kept at 1200 ppm via PPM3 controler
I just got lucky. After a fruitless search here in Colorado where good clones are hard to come by I went on a hunt. Thru a friend I got 14 large rooted veg plants in rockwool, strain: Grape Ape X Big Bud, X Venom.
Five went in soiless mix, for a backup in case of another failure.
Three went into a bucket singly.
Six went in two per bucket. (I got extras as a bonus, so hey what else am I to do?)
Nice... check the picts.
Attachments
Scay Beez
Active member
Found some more info... no solutions only suggestions.
http://www.gpnmag.com/articles/some.pdf
I'm going to put up thrip and anti-virus screen on the doors and windows of my room in case they are somehow getting through. Does anyone have any soil sterilization methods that aren't ridiculous like baking all your soil? This problem seems almost impossible to completely prevent.
- sbz
http://www.gpnmag.com/articles/some.pdf
I'm going to put up thrip and anti-virus screen on the doors and windows of my room in case they are somehow getting through. Does anyone have any soil sterilization methods that aren't ridiculous like baking all your soil? This problem seems almost impossible to completely prevent.
- sbz
S
Shan Diego
I microwave everything before I use it now. From my Rapid rooters, to my coco. Just 2 minutes in the microwave when dry, and then I dump through water, which comes out steaming. Of course, this kills off the beneficials too, but they are easily replaced. Microwave = clear kill without poisonous residue.
Scay Beez
Active member
Shan Diego: Great suggestion for small amounts. I wonder how to sterilize several bags at once.
Great pictures from university of Michigan:
http://ipmnews.msu.edu/landscape/La...54/Root-aphids-on-container-grown-asters.aspx
I've saw those white spots on the rapid rooter plugs last round of clones I took. I now believe that they can camp out in root plugs and wait for roots. I wonder how long they live without food? So many questions with so few answers.
- sbz
Great pictures from university of Michigan:
http://ipmnews.msu.edu/landscape/La...54/Root-aphids-on-container-grown-asters.aspx
I've saw those white spots on the rapid rooter plugs last round of clones I took. I now believe that they can camp out in root plugs and wait for roots. I wonder how long they live without food? So many questions with so few answers.
- sbz
Scay Beez
Active member
This is the most promising information I've found so far. I called this Insect and Pest control/Eco-Resource company out of the Acres USA, Rincon-Vitova (the only one in the whole magazine). I am a huge fan of Acres USA books. I talked to this guy that was extremely intelligent. He worked alongside Elaine Ingram and some of Acres USA's best gardeners. He gave me some golden advice on how to avoid, control, and possibly get rid of this problem. This is the only person I've found that claimed to help several people with this problem in a commercial nursery setting. It takes two to six weeks is the downside.
Composting all incoming soil for at least two weeks preferably four. The root aphids will not stay around when there is no food (plant/roots). They also don't lay eggs where there isn't any food. They rarely lay eggs unless overwintering. The eggs are layed near the rootstock or near the base of a plant outdoors. Ants can also collect the eggs and take care of them. The are born pregnant so eggs are only to survive winter. They also shed their skin a few times during their lifecycle which makes Beauveria bassiana not a complete solution itself.
Thrip/virus insect netting on all entrances and vents. The insects can have wings but rarely fly, they like to jump around.
He recommended a product called Rhizoboost. It contains three or four different species of bacteria which produce chitin decomposing enzymes. Chitin is insect skin. Then, they sell another product to go along with it called bug bits. Dead insects and insect parts are the ingredients. So the bacteria find all these dead insect shells and start producing chitin levels "off the charts" as I was told. Those enzymes hit the live insects and they die quickly. The bacteria also help the plant grow at the same time preventing root rot. He recommended doing a cycle of Rhizosphere & Bug Bits, Beauveria bassiana, and also culturing nematodes. The chitin enzymes and Beauveria bassiana fungi will kill the beneficial nematodes so giving each method it's due time is key. Two week cycles of each is what he recommended. Here's there very impressive website: http://www.rinconvitova.com/
If I can scrape up some cash I will definitely try it. Broke like a bad joke right now. Sounds like the most logical/complete approach besides waging chemical warfare if someone wants to beat me to it.
Wonder how bali_man is doing?
- sbz
Composting all incoming soil for at least two weeks preferably four. The root aphids will not stay around when there is no food (plant/roots). They also don't lay eggs where there isn't any food. They rarely lay eggs unless overwintering. The eggs are layed near the rootstock or near the base of a plant outdoors. Ants can also collect the eggs and take care of them. The are born pregnant so eggs are only to survive winter. They also shed their skin a few times during their lifecycle which makes Beauveria bassiana not a complete solution itself.
Thrip/virus insect netting on all entrances and vents. The insects can have wings but rarely fly, they like to jump around.
He recommended a product called Rhizoboost. It contains three or four different species of bacteria which produce chitin decomposing enzymes. Chitin is insect skin. Then, they sell another product to go along with it called bug bits. Dead insects and insect parts are the ingredients. So the bacteria find all these dead insect shells and start producing chitin levels "off the charts" as I was told. Those enzymes hit the live insects and they die quickly. The bacteria also help the plant grow at the same time preventing root rot. He recommended doing a cycle of Rhizosphere & Bug Bits, Beauveria bassiana, and also culturing nematodes. The chitin enzymes and Beauveria bassiana fungi will kill the beneficial nematodes so giving each method it's due time is key. Two week cycles of each is what he recommended. Here's there very impressive website: http://www.rinconvitova.com/
If I can scrape up some cash I will definitely try it. Broke like a bad joke right now. Sounds like the most logical/complete approach besides waging chemical warfare if someone wants to beat me to it.
Wonder how bali_man is doing?
- sbz
To clarify, depending on the amount of medium, 2 minutes won't do shit.
Make sure it's HOT. I did a test with soil that I could see visual bugs on in a pyrex bowl. 2X 2 MINUTE MICROWAVE SESSIONS AND I COULD STILL SEE BUGS ALIVE. - so to clarify, make sure the medium is boiling-piping-hot-steaming to kill them bastards.
*edit, I've also been thinking about using our old propane turkey fryer and do larger batches outside.
Had root aphids about a year or so ago, haven't seen them since.
Chemical Solution: Triazicide
Dilute it with water as per directions, then dunk your entire medium in it for a good minute or two.
It smells like gasoline, and kills them within a few seconds. You can test it, by capturing a few aphids in a small tupperware, then apply the Triazicide. Watch them die !!!
You can get it at most hardware stores, Lowes, Home Depot, WalMart, Aces, etc... or get it online. Its cheap less then 20 dollars.
Mr^^
Chemical Solution: Triazicide
Dilute it with water as per directions, then dunk your entire medium in it for a good minute or two.
It smells like gasoline, and kills them within a few seconds. You can test it, by capturing a few aphids in a small tupperware, then apply the Triazicide. Watch them die !!!
You can get it at most hardware stores, Lowes, Home Depot, WalMart, Aces, etc... or get it online. Its cheap less then 20 dollars.
Mr^^
I've had similar problems, gnats and aphids, I tried sticky traps, dunks to no avail, sand on top of each pot, then finally Gnatrol at .5ml per gallon with SM-90 at 3ml/gal and 35%H202 at 2ml/gal, . Finally seeing some slowdown, but man, bugs suck.
I'm told Bayer tree and shrub as a root drench works wonders, that is my next step (or isopropyl alcohol) if all else fails.
I also swept my whole room, sprayed the floor/walls with garlic oil and physan20, then after it dried set off two big pyrethrin foggers and then swept the floor with copious diatemaceous earth (DE) to help keep the bugs OUT. Figure if I make the whole room a toxic dump and dry as the sahara they just won't like it much
I'm told Bayer tree and shrub as a root drench works wonders, that is my next step (or isopropyl alcohol) if all else fails.
I also swept my whole room, sprayed the floor/walls with garlic oil and physan20, then after it dried set off two big pyrethrin foggers and then swept the floor with copious diatemaceous earth (DE) to help keep the bugs OUT. Figure if I make the whole room a toxic dump and dry as the sahara they just won't like it much
Stay Frosty
Member
Got the Bayer T&S in the rez as I type, fingers crossed. Wish me luck guys, cringe the thought of having to tear down/start over. Will leave it in for 3 dayz with full strength nutez then drain. Caught it early in my recirculating WF's. Hope early enough. Will post in a few with an update.
Stay Frosty
Member
So after about 36hrz, the bugz that were visible on the roots appear to be dead. My only question is what do I do about the dead bug bodiez? Do I leave them? Add some Cannazym maybe. Attempt to wash them out? I think the bayer is doing the trick, used 80mil in my 20gal setup. Thank you everyone for your help!
MedUser420
Active member
Jesus Scaybeez, you still battling these f@ckers?
New member of the Phylloxera fan club saying hi
New member of the Phylloxera fan club saying hi
So I had to get Confidor. They had no Tree & Shrub, and according to sarek any product with Imid in it is going to work. I'm having trouble working out what dosage I'm supposed to use though, as the confidor directions are for a spray.
Active constituent: 200g/L imidacloroprid
Now that's kind of F'd up because grams (g) is weight, and litres (L) is liquid. But seeing as 1000 grams of water equals one litre, I'll guess that I have 20% strength imidacloroprid. Sarek made this helpful post but I'm struggling to understand the doseage :/ Could anyone tell me how much Confidor I would need for 10 litres of the final mix? Or say, 3 gallons? Even just the dosage from your label of Tree & Shrub would help immensely. I think I can work the rest out. Thanks
It's really hard because like I said, the label directions are for a spray, and it's measured in drips. (6 drips per litre)
Should I just use that doseage?
Edit: tree & shrub is 5ml per gallon if I understand
New member of the Phylloxera fan club saying hi
So I had to get Confidor. They had no Tree & Shrub, and according to sarek any product with Imid in it is going to work. I'm having trouble working out what dosage I'm supposed to use though, as the confidor directions are for a spray.
Active constituent: 200g/L imidacloroprid
Now that's kind of F'd up because grams (g) is weight, and litres (L) is liquid. But seeing as 1000 grams of water equals one litre, I'll guess that I have 20% strength imidacloroprid. Sarek made this helpful post but I'm struggling to understand the doseage :/ Could anyone tell me how much Confidor I would need for 10 litres of the final mix? Or say, 3 gallons? Even just the dosage from your label of Tree & Shrub would help immensely. I think I can work the rest out. Thanks
It's really hard because like I said, the label directions are for a spray, and it's measured in drips. (6 drips per litre)
Should I just use that doseage?Edit: tree & shrub is 5ml per gallon if I understand
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Confidor application rate
Confidor application rate
Ok so Tree and Shrub is 1.47% strength and is used at 5ml per gallon. Confidor is 20% strength. 1 gallon = 3.79 litres.
So tree & shrub is used at 1.319 ml/litre
Confidor is 13.6 times stronger and should be used at .096 ml/litre
Please feel free to check my figures, I would appreciate it.
I also posted this on my own thread but I figure it's handy here for anyone lumbered with Confidor. Just don't trust those numbers till someone verifies!
Edit: Well. I crunched some hardcore numberage. I worked out the rate above to be equal to 2 drops per litre so I'm about to apply 18 drops of Confidor into 9 litres of water. The recommended dose as a spray (on the packet) is 6 drops per litre. I'll be back.
Confidor application rate
Ok so Tree and Shrub is 1.47% strength and is used at 5ml per gallon. Confidor is 20% strength. 1 gallon = 3.79 litres.
So tree & shrub is used at 1.319 ml/litre
Confidor is 13.6 times stronger and should be used at .096 ml/litre
Please feel free to check my figures, I would appreciate it.
I also posted this on my own thread but I figure it's handy here for anyone lumbered with Confidor. Just don't trust those numbers till someone verifies!Edit: Well. I crunched some hardcore numberage. I worked out the rate above to be equal to 2 drops per litre so I'm about to apply 18 drops of Confidor into 9 litres of water. The recommended dose as a spray (on the packet) is 6 drops per litre. I'll be back.
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