The one that gets me is when they declare what the founding fathers did or did not intend when the Constitution was written.
President Obama, it's very simple.
- Thread starter danut
- Start date
The one that gets me is when they declare what the founding fathers did or did not intend when the Constitution was written.
L
lysol
Lysol - I'm glad you love to wallow in regulations, but we FREE people believe that we are responsible enough and perfectly capable of regulating ourselves.
Yeah BatGuana, shes may believe she is capable of going head to head with a corporation, but she is very very naive.
How exactly do you propose a citizen regulate themselves?
Have any of you guys arguing against regulation shopped for private health care? Did any of you bother to read the contract before you made a decision, I can say for a fact you did not. wanna know why? They won't let you read the contract until you actually sign up. they send it out in your 'welcome kit', and then every 3-6 months they send you another letter with your premium increase and revisions to the terms, you never sign anything.
So ask yourself this: should they be able to put in the contract "effective immediately we are appointing sarah palin to head a 'death panel'"? Should they be able to put asinine clauses buried deep in pages and pages of legal terms, all in the name of free competition?
Here's another talking point. I was looking thru arrest records for various blue collar crimes, several people down the street from me started their own insurance companies without licenses, etc... they were quickly shut down, had they been allowed to continue their business how many people would have to file claims before it was revealed the whole thing was a ponzi scheme run by some hood rat out of his apartment that had no intention of paying out reimbursements?
There should be regulations, I think everyone agrees on that
HERE IS THE FULL TEXT OF THE BILL:
energycommerce.house.gov/Press_111/20090714/aahca.pdf
If you are going to say it stifles competition tell me exactly how that would work, my ears & mind are open
I did however find that yes we will be paying for this out of our taxes:
SEC. 2002. PUBLIC HEALTH INVESTMENT FUND.
(a) ESTABLISHMENT OF FUNDS.—
(1) IN GENERAL.—There is established a fund
to be known as the ‘‘Public Health Investment
Fund’’ (referred to in this section as the ‘‘Fund’’).
(2) FUNDING.—
(A) There shall be deposited into the
Fund—
(B) Amounts deposited into the Fund shall
be derived from general revenues of the Treas5
ury.
(i) for fiscal year 2010,
$4,600,000,000;
(ii) for fiscal year 2011,
$5,600,000,000;
(iii) for fiscal year 2012,
$6,900,000,000;
(iv) for fiscal year 2013,
$7,800,000,000;
(v) for fiscal year 2014,
$9,000,000,000;
(vi) for fiscal year 2015,
$9,400,000,000;
(vii) for fiscal year 2016,
$10,100,000,000;
(viii) for fiscal year 2017,
$10,800,000,000;
(ix) for fiscal year 2018,
$11,800,000,000; and
So my stance on this now is that the bill is too complicated coming in at 1,000 pages... who the fuck writes this shit anyways? But I still stand by my stance that we need regulation, I have no idea if that bill provides that or exceeds what is necessary though. I am saying we need regulation in general ( not specifically this bill )
Seems like yeah the bill is chock full of crap, the employer should be free to pay the savings directly to the employees to appropriate as they desire ( purchase healthcare, strippers, whatever, none of the govt's business )
The bill needs to be restructured to focus on regulating fraudulent practices within the private industry, right now it is structured around limiting the consumer. Guess it IS a trojan horse, too bad so many people are using fallacies to argue against it. Maybe these fallacies were spread intentionally, to make opposers out to be crazy, in hopes to gain more supporters so they can pass their funding.
Just for perspective: http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=1258
Yeah BatGuana, shes may believe she is capable of going head to head with a corporation, but she is very very naive.
How exactly do you propose a citizen regulate themselves?
Have any of you guys arguing against regulation shopped for private health care? Did any of you bother to read the contract before you made a decision, I can say for a fact you did not. wanna know why? They won't let you read the contract until you actually sign up. they send it out in your 'welcome kit', and then every 3-6 months they send you another letter with your premium increase and revisions to the terms, you never sign anything.
So ask yourself this: should they be able to put in the contract "effective immediately we are appointing sarah palin to head a 'death panel'"? Should they be able to put asinine clauses buried deep in pages and pages of legal terms, all in the name of free competition?
Here's another talking point. I was looking thru arrest records for various blue collar crimes, several people down the street from me started their own insurance companies without licenses, etc... they were quickly shut down, had they been allowed to continue their business how many people would have to file claims before it was revealed the whole thing was a ponzi scheme run by some hood rat out of his apartment that had no intention of paying out reimbursements?
There should be regulations, I think everyone agrees on that
HERE IS THE FULL TEXT OF THE BILL:
energycommerce.house.gov/Press_111/20090714/aahca.pdf
If you are going to say it stifles competition tell me exactly how that would work, my ears & mind are open
I did however find that yes we will be paying for this out of our taxes:
SEC. 2002. PUBLIC HEALTH INVESTMENT FUND.
(a) ESTABLISHMENT OF FUNDS.—
(1) IN GENERAL.—There is established a fund
to be known as the ‘‘Public Health Investment
Fund’’ (referred to in this section as the ‘‘Fund’’).
(2) FUNDING.—
(A) There shall be deposited into the
Fund—
(B) Amounts deposited into the Fund shall
be derived from general revenues of the Treas5
ury.
(i) for fiscal year 2010,
$4,600,000,000;
(ii) for fiscal year 2011,
$5,600,000,000;
(iii) for fiscal year 2012,
$6,900,000,000;
(iv) for fiscal year 2013,
$7,800,000,000;
(v) for fiscal year 2014,
$9,000,000,000;
(vi) for fiscal year 2015,
$9,400,000,000;
(vii) for fiscal year 2016,
$10,100,000,000;
(viii) for fiscal year 2017,
$10,800,000,000;
(ix) for fiscal year 2018,
$11,800,000,000; and
So my stance on this now is that the bill is too complicated coming in at 1,000 pages... who the fuck writes this shit anyways? But I still stand by my stance that we need regulation, I have no idea if that bill provides that or exceeds what is necessary though. I am saying we need regulation in general ( not specifically this bill )
Seems like yeah the bill is chock full of crap, the employer should be free to pay the savings directly to the employees to appropriate as they desire ( purchase healthcare, strippers, whatever, none of the govt's business )
The bill needs to be restructured to focus on regulating fraudulent practices within the private industry, right now it is structured around limiting the consumer. Guess it IS a trojan horse, too bad so many people are using fallacies to argue against it. Maybe these fallacies were spread intentionally, to make opposers out to be crazy, in hopes to gain more supporters so they can pass their funding.
Just for perspective: http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=1258
Here's the idea as I understand it. When employers renew health care plans, they'll see the public option as a cheaper alternative to status quot private insurance. The public option will include choice and quality health care, it just won't cost as much. Employers will flock to the public option and leave private insurance companies to file for bankruptcy. Employees will have no choice and accept the public option. Then the government can drop them at will, kind of like private insurance has been doing for the last 50 years. That's the end game so to speak.
In reality, the public option is simply an administrative function with cost controls. The private insurance industry will still provide insurance like it always did. The public option will replace the 12% private administrative costs with 4% government administrative costs. These costs will be free of profit. This will allow the industry to finally get on the same page and process claims the same way.
Government isn't getting into the health care business. They've been running health care administration for the last several decades and are efficiency leaders in the field. Taking on the public option will be a challenge but must happen if we're going to get any meaningful reform.
We pay for everything out of our taxes. The president said your taxes will not be increased. It is proposed that administrative savings and a tax on everyone making more than 350 thousand a year will pay for the public option. The devil of course is in the details.
my wife works for a doctor and she read the whole bill
its not perfect but is better then we have now
if this bill is so bad why all the lies about it
my congressmen had a town hall meeting about the bill
all he did was lie about it and afew days latter they
had another town hall metting and wouldn't let anybody
who supported the bill in are they afraid of the truth
its not perfect but is better then we have now
if this bill is so bad why all the lies about it
my congressmen had a town hall meeting about the bill
all he did was lie about it and afew days latter they
had another town hall metting and wouldn't let anybody
who supported the bill in are they afraid of the truth
danut
Member
And it's a fluid document that is constantly chanaging.
Who has read it? Have any of the senators or congressmen actually read the thing they are arguing about?
Consider the ability of Washington DC to pack hidden pork into a bill.
Are doctors getting to do some CYA heer? betcha ..
What about the drug companies? Why not .. no one will notice.
Insurance companies? I think they have some lobby money to spend.
It's a pork fest. And the people that are not getting the fast breaks are the people of the USA. Because Washington DC doesn't consider our tax money as real income. The real money comes from special interests.
"It" is actually 4 bills being considered, three from the house and one brewing in the senate. According to what I read, lobbyists for the industry write the majority of legislation in the form of proposals to congress. Congress uses the basis of what the lobby provides and adds and removes details from there. The consensus appears in the bill.
Interesting that while Obama is pushing this big health care package, he is now going to have to fight just to keep his job also.
A California judge has scheduled a trial for Jan 26 2010 for a case that challenges Obama's elegibility to be president based on questions over his qualifications under the requirements of the US constitution.
The suit alleges Obama is actually a citizen of Indonesia and possibly still a citizen of Kenya.
I am holding a copy of his birth certificate right now that is from Mombasa British Protectorate of Kenya from 1942. It even has his footprint on it.
This should be interesting.
A California judge has scheduled a trial for Jan 26 2010 for a case that challenges Obama's elegibility to be president based on questions over his qualifications under the requirements of the US constitution.
The suit alleges Obama is actually a citizen of Indonesia and possibly still a citizen of Kenya.
I am holding a copy of his birth certificate right now that is from Mombasa British Protectorate of Kenya from 1942. It even has his footprint on it.
This should be interesting.
L
lysol
@Care Free 1 - you know how many fake birth certificates went around? Can you state your sources or provide more then your hearsay?
Yeah I'm a supporter of the idea as you can see I have been arguing, but the implementation is all wrong. Like I was saying simply providing no coverage, or coverage that only covers 50% of medical costs would save far more money for the employers, but they don't flock to it now ( because they have the employee's best interests in mind ). The so called nail in the coffin tho is taxing the employers who don't sign up with an "appropriate" plan, which is somewhat ambiguous wording that essentially DOES allow what you stated to happen
If I have 15 employees that my business depends on, I'm not going to dick them over and risk them leaving me, but then again if I was threatened with excess taxes that would change things, from my skimming of it it is somewhat open ( for instance how much is the tax and what is the purpose of this ).
Is it better then what we have now yeah sure, and the costs are minuscule when compared with social security and department of defense compared to what we have to gain.
I think we would be better off focusing on putting our foot down on private companies dropping coverage, instead of taxing the mom & pop businesses for the choices they made.
And if there is a public option I feel like they should pay it with either 100% out of premiums, either that or go the pure socialist route, not some hybrid of multiple payment models ( its either an "option" or its universal health care, one or the other). If tax payers are going to pay a dime they might as well pay the whole 25 cents and let everyone have care, either that or it should be funded out of the premiums of people who are using and benefiting from it.
It would be like if public schools started charging for enrollment but we still had to pay for it out of our taxes too, with extra taxes if you wanted to pay for a private school ( so if you want a private school you pay for that enrollment, your regular taxes for public school you dont use, as well as an additional tax for not using an "acceptable" school )
Just callin it how I see it
Yeah I'm a supporter of the idea as you can see I have been arguing, but the implementation is all wrong. Like I was saying simply providing no coverage, or coverage that only covers 50% of medical costs would save far more money for the employers, but they don't flock to it now ( because they have the employee's best interests in mind ). The so called nail in the coffin tho is taxing the employers who don't sign up with an "appropriate" plan, which is somewhat ambiguous wording that essentially DOES allow what you stated to happen
If I have 15 employees that my business depends on, I'm not going to dick them over and risk them leaving me, but then again if I was threatened with excess taxes that would change things, from my skimming of it it is somewhat open ( for instance how much is the tax and what is the purpose of this ).
Is it better then what we have now yeah sure, and the costs are minuscule when compared with social security and department of defense compared to what we have to gain.
I think we would be better off focusing on putting our foot down on private companies dropping coverage, instead of taxing the mom & pop businesses for the choices they made.
And if there is a public option I feel like they should pay it with either 100% out of premiums, either that or go the pure socialist route, not some hybrid of multiple payment models ( its either an "option" or its universal health care, one or the other). If tax payers are going to pay a dime they might as well pay the whole 25 cents and let everyone have care, either that or it should be funded out of the premiums of people who are using and benefiting from it.
It would be like if public schools started charging for enrollment but we still had to pay for it out of our taxes too, with extra taxes if you wanted to pay for a private school ( so if you want a private school you pay for that enrollment, your regular taxes for public school you dont use, as well as an additional tax for not using an "acceptable" school )
Just callin it how I see it
danut
Member
Oh cool!! The don't pay to get pork put in .. They just wright the whole thing??!!??!!
I feel much better now!
Thanks for filling me in.
And this is the process in which "they" get regulated?
Now I understand how marijuana has no medical value .. in Washington DC
Sorry lysol
WorldNetDaily or WND.com.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=109242
Lots of articles about the health plan on that site also.
As WND reported, Smith released a video of the document he claims is a copy of Obama's hospital birth record, though WND's own investigation failed to substantiate the document's authenticity..
WND first reported earlier this year when Lucas Smith, a former resident of Cedar Rapids, Iowa, and known by the eBay handle "colmado_naranja," claimed to have a document proving Obama's birth in Mombasa, Kenya.
After promising to reveal the document to WND, Smith then dropped communications with a team of people offering to help him verify the document, only fueling the belief the sale – and therefore the alleged document – was a scam.
so many lies what do I believe is it we can't except a smart black man
WND first reported earlier this year when Lucas Smith, a former resident of Cedar Rapids, Iowa, and known by the eBay handle "colmado_naranja," claimed to have a document proving Obama's birth in Mombasa, Kenya.
After promising to reveal the document to WND, Smith then dropped communications with a team of people offering to help him verify the document, only fueling the belief the sale – and therefore the alleged document – was a scam.
so many lies what do I believe is it we can't except a smart black man
the fact that any plant should be taxed and regulated is bullshit... keep it illegal Obama you the man.
O
otherwhitemeat
I love to see lefties get all teary eyed when someone tells them they are about to get something for free. Or even better, something that someone else who is well off, has to work very hard to provide for them.
Y'all have as much chance of getting government sponsored healthcare as I have of growing a left foot on my head. Public Option is all but dead, a victim of the nature of our our Congress to get nothing done. And a victim of the people who worked very hard to subvert it so that no one messes with the status quo. Did any of you get off your asses to go to a town hall debate? I did, and they were nothing like what was depicted on the news. Today's system is not perfect, but it works for millions of hardworkng union folks, government employees, and white collar folks who are speaking out and saying: 'don't touch my insurance--it works for me'. They know the system isn't perfect, but they know when they needed a surgery, somebody paid.
When this is all over, you may have the option to buy some reduced cost, reduced feature healthcare coverage, but it will never be as good as what the middle class has access to. It will make you feel good inside to have gotten something done, but the insurance companies will be still be making bad decisions about your healthcare and now you'll be paying for it. They aren't going to give you something for free. And may even kill a few of you for profit. You'll have to deal with a mountain of bureacracy to get this coverage. And what then, when our kids find that becoming a Doctor is not the proftiable path to wealth it once was? Who will save you then? I hope you enjoy it in the short term because the lack of profitability in supporting an underclass will cause most insurance company to go bust and Doctors to start shedding services and patients. But you will have yours...for a time...until the system comes crashing down like it did in housing. And the government picks up the tab to bail it out.
The shortsightedness of the 'omma get mine' mindset is why many do not work hard enough to have their own suitable insurance in the first place. No matter, your children and their children will pay for it--born with a price on their head. Alas, we're worried about nothing: Obama is a do nothing, feel good guy, and even his own party is scattering from this mess. The law that results from this will be eviscerated and will look nothing like the book of dreams he read to you this week.
Y'all have as much chance of getting government sponsored healthcare as I have of growing a left foot on my head. Public Option is all but dead, a victim of the nature of our our Congress to get nothing done. And a victim of the people who worked very hard to subvert it so that no one messes with the status quo. Did any of you get off your asses to go to a town hall debate? I did, and they were nothing like what was depicted on the news. Today's system is not perfect, but it works for millions of hardworkng union folks, government employees, and white collar folks who are speaking out and saying: 'don't touch my insurance--it works for me'. They know the system isn't perfect, but they know when they needed a surgery, somebody paid.
When this is all over, you may have the option to buy some reduced cost, reduced feature healthcare coverage, but it will never be as good as what the middle class has access to. It will make you feel good inside to have gotten something done, but the insurance companies will be still be making bad decisions about your healthcare and now you'll be paying for it. They aren't going to give you something for free. And may even kill a few of you for profit. You'll have to deal with a mountain of bureacracy to get this coverage. And what then, when our kids find that becoming a Doctor is not the proftiable path to wealth it once was? Who will save you then? I hope you enjoy it in the short term because the lack of profitability in supporting an underclass will cause most insurance company to go bust and Doctors to start shedding services and patients. But you will have yours...for a time...until the system comes crashing down like it did in housing. And the government picks up the tab to bail it out.
The shortsightedness of the 'omma get mine' mindset is why many do not work hard enough to have their own suitable insurance in the first place. No matter, your children and their children will pay for it--born with a price on their head. Alas, we're worried about nothing: Obama is a do nothing, feel good guy, and even his own party is scattering from this mess. The law that results from this will be eviscerated and will look nothing like the book of dreams he read to you this week.
ColBatGuano
Member
The opinions of birthers mean nothing to me. They believe in something which simply isn't true. Even if Obama had been born in Kenya, it wouldn't matter, because his mother was an American citizen. Just like me, born in the UK--American mother--American citizen. John McCain wasn't born in the US, either. It is why he told the birthers to get stuffed.
L
lysol
"Lucas Smith, the man who tried to sell an alleged Barack Obama Kenyan birth certificate on eBay, filed court papers insisting – under threat of perjury – that the Obama birth certificate in his possession is the genuine article. "
lol so some crazy guy said it and is trying to prove it, people open court cases against the US govt because they think they are being stalked by black helicopters
The case would be the first time, according to Kreep, that the actual merits of the dispute will have been heard in open court. A multitude of such disputes have been rejected out of hand by various state and federal courts. Even the U.S. Supreme Court repeatedly has rejected urgent appeals to hear the evidence.
I would imagine, what are we going to start linking the onion and dailymail next? Here are some headlines that site is running
"Obama's team 'socialists", "Adult dog more 'rational' than baby", "Obama's regulatory chief
pushes new 'bill of rights'"
OH AND NOT TO MENTION ALL THE COMMERCIAL ADS SELLING DOCUMENTARIES AND BOOKS THAT ARE PRO BIRTHER
Highly biased
S
ShoeboxSherman
It would matter. You must be born in the US, it's territories, or protectorates in order to be eligible to be POTUS. Just ask Alexander Hamilton. US military bases are considered American soil for that purpose.
I'm aghast at the ridiculous claims being made in this thread.
I was going to leave a well-reasoned comment but, I don't think it would be accepted by the majority of readers in this thread. Far too much tin-foil hat conspiracy theory rhetoric to be taken seriously.
I was going to leave a well-reasoned comment but, I don't think it would be accepted by the majority of readers in this thread. Far too much tin-foil hat conspiracy theory rhetoric to be taken seriously.
Does this apply to someone who became disabled, lost everything they own, can never work again and is denied medical coverage because of a pre-existing and chronic disability?
Or did you have others in mind when you claim people are simply lazy and want something for nothing ?
