Sigh . . . I don't even know anymore

[etinarcadiaego]

Currently I've had this problem with 3 of my plants. 2 were started outdoors in Miracle Gro (I know I know . . . bad shit) Soil, and 1 was started outdoors in FF Planting Mix, all three at a ratio of 3 parts soil to 1 part perlite. None of the plants were ever fertilized, nor have they been to date. Planted on 7/4 of this year. Anyways, so they were all started in 4" x 4" containers, outdoors. Rain water was all they had, and I didn't control when they got it. The pots did have drainage holes, and they seemed to really thrive whilst outdoors, considering the cold wet climate here.

So fast forward to about 2 weeks ago. (1 transplant later), all three went into FF Planting mix, again and 4:1, into 9.5" containers (not sure of the volume, I'd guess about 1 gallon).

I moved these plants inside about 4 days after the transplant as they were pretty rootbound, and I had finally finished my grow box. About 3 days in I watered them and checked the runoff (the water in was pH 7.0) and it was 5.0.

I freaked out and flushed them. The pH landed at about 6.5 after maybe 5 gallons of water per pot. I waited another 5 days until the pots were REALLY light, and now 1 of the plants (started in MG) was showing bad pH fluctuation issues (probably b/c of the rapid flush) and the other 2 were N def. So I watered this time with plain water again, at pH 7, and AGAIN!! Runoff 5.0. So again I flushed, this time with only 1-2 gallons per pot, runoff hit 6.5 after that.

So now, today, watered 2 of the plants. Guess what, son of a bitch, runoff 5.0!!! 1 of the 2 was started in MG, and 1 in the FF Planting Mix. Whats going on here? Does the runoff pH matter? What should i do? I've never ferted them, but switched them to flower today as they're already about 18" tall and have been topped twice. They are getting fairly N deficient, and I’m kinda worried I’m killing them . . . lol

Seriously I'm at wits end here. I'll be transplanting them once I can sex them, in about a week I hope, into FF Ocean Forest soil, mixed with perlite, worm castings, some bat guano, and some dolomite lime. I also purchased that "Plant Success Granular" stuff (this)

I can't really afford to buy anything else at this point, as everything I get comes mail order since I live in such a remote area. But tell me, WHAT AM I DOING WRONG? Should I just stop pHing my runoff? Why is the runoff so acidic?

Any advice you can offer much appreciated. If you need more details don’t hesitate to ask.

Here are some pics from about 5 minutes ago. In my earlier post I said the problem affected 3 plants, which seemed to recover. My photos are of the 2 worst plants, 1 of which look REALLY bad.

They are in their second day of flowering under a 400 watt MH (Switching to HPS tomorrow).

They are plants "D" and "B"

Here they are together:

Here are some shots of "D"

Leaf Problems on "D"

More leaf problems on "D"

Wrinkly "D" leaves

One more shot of "D"

Now here is "B", note the rust-colored spots.

And the grow box:

Any help appreciated . . .

 

[snowman06]

might be you grow box. that mylar or what ever you are using for reflection could be causing the plants to get burned. I no that happened to me once before. Also if your going to use soils like m.grow try sta green for homedepo or low instead. also chill on the watering after they been watered and if there is any water in the bottom of those pots your using dump it out after 20 mins and wait a while befor you water again

 

[etinarcadiaego]

Thanks for the reply. I don't think it's the mylar, as 2 of my plants we're totally fine (1 was a male and was discarded).

I have def. chilled on the watering, and yah I have been dumping the overfill portion of the pots a couple hours after watering.

What do you think of that pH stuff???

 

[ibjamming]

I think they're just hungry...need some N. The one on the left is over watered. You water them the same amount don't you? The left needs less water than the one on the right...

Besides that, they look OK.

 

[HeD333]

I see minor over-watering and a pretty substantial N deficiency. Hit them with FF Grow Big if you want to stick with FF Products (start with 1/4 strength). Otherwise, any fert with a big first number should correct your probs(don't over do it). The bottom leaves may or may not recover.

 

[cosmiccowboy]

etin,i feel yer pain..i've got plants in at least 3 diferent types of medium,soil,etc and it's about to drive me crazy...never again...goin all organic startin next week...it does look like(from my limited experience) nitrogen shortage but i'd wait and see what microbeman has to say about it....is that by any chance miracle grow moisture control?...you really have to watch the water with that stuff..i see that yer plants are outside, should dry up in a few days so you can get a better idea of whats goin on..

 

[etinarcadiaego]

Thanks for replys and advice everyone. Just as an FYI, what are the signs of overwatering (aside from drooping)?

It seems like the less attention I pay, the better my plants do . . .

Also, I use BioBizz nutes, not sure if that matters.

 

[ibjamming]

It seems like the less attention I pay, the better my plants do . . .

It's the #1 killer! Too much love...

 

[habeeb]

N and P def's for sure. N you can tell if the leaf does not burn up. and your P is because you can see the stems are turning purple.

and you have PH problems, as you see that one plant where the leafs are starting to twist / curl and become wavy . what PH is water or water after nutes?

 

[etinarcadiaego]

I haven't given nutes, but the runoff is always pH 5.0, even after 3 large flushes, it's always 5.0 . . .

 

[opt1c]

hit them with some ferts.... as far as soil and ph goes i always just try to get my nutes around 6.3-6.5 and i could care less about the ph of the runoff but that's just me... i also use a mixture of ro water and dechlorinated water to eliminate any affect the water quality could have on the nute mix but if your water is ok out the tap then a small aquarium pump will off gas any chlorine in the water if you put it in a bucket and let it bubble for about an hour before using

all in all the plants look healthy; the lower leaves are using nutes to feed the new growth at the top like you'd see when you flush a plant in the end; feed them with a low ppm liquid nute mix; even though they're hungry it's always better to feed too light than too heavy when it comes to soil.... water when they feel light to pickup with minimal runoff and they should be fine... goodluck

 

[habeeb]

I haven't given nutes, but the runoff is always pH 5.0, even after 3 large flushes, it's always 5.0 . . .

your the rare type that under do then over due, both will cause problems though..

runoff is not always accurate



give some bottled nute and try to PH if you can to 6.5

are you running organic? if so just give bottled nute, and check out the organic section in the mena time to make a better soil and have the power of microbes working for you..

 

[dillhole]

I haven't given nutes, but the runoff is always pH 5.0, even after 3 large flushes, it's always 5.0 . . .

Sounds like the buffer in the soil is used up. You can mix some hydrated lime with your water to help. Better yet, get some pH up. It's a much stronger base and will correct the soil pH usually in one dose.

Make sure to add dolomite lime to your new soil mix when you repot.

DH

 

[etinarcadiaego]

Hey guys, first off thank for all the support.

I don't have any hydrated lime, but I do have dolomite lime to add to the soil when I transplant . . .

Would I be better just to start over? Can this problem cause flowering issues? I just flipped yesterday after about 7 weeks of veg, and I thought I'd through it out there.

I think I'm done flushing, I'm just try to stay away and let mother nature do it's thing (in my basement . . .)

I'll fert with my next watering (I use biobizz nutes) and we'll see if this helps!

 

[I N Hail]

Also you need to put some drain hole's in the bottom of the pot's
(if there's not any) You might be drowning the root's in the bottom of the pot's

Could be causing your ph problem too.

PeaceINH

 

[mrred]

my seedings had the same similar problem and the ones in dwc looked the same too but i could see the roots have slim, so im thinking a few of my soil plants got rootrot too,but i just transplanted them in some ferted soil so we'll see if they rebound.

 

[dillhole]

Hey guys, first off thank for all the support.

I don't have any hydrated lime, but I do have dolomite lime to add to the soil when I transplant . . .

Would I be better just to start over? Can this problem cause flowering issues? I just flipped yesterday after about 7 weeks of veg, and I thought I'd through it out there.

I think I'm done flushing, I'm just try to stay away and let mother nature do it's thing (in my basement . . .)

I'll fert with my next watering (I use biobizz nutes) and we'll see if this helps!

If it was me, I'd get them into fresh soil immediately. PH problems never just go away on their own and the nutrients will remain locked out, killing the plant. This is an EASY problem to fix. There's no reason to start over, this grow can be salvaged. A can of pH up cost about $15, a bag of hydrated lime is about $2.

You might consider putting the plants back into veg for a few weeks. It's never good to induce flowering when there is pH stress, because of hermies. I have this problem every time I grow since I don't have access to quality soil. The hydrated lime works ok but the powdered pH up is the shit.

Someone mentioned adding large drain holes. That is very good advice, and it is easy to do also. You can even add some to the sides of the pot too. One hour of your time and less than $15 can save your babies!

Good luck!

DH

 

[etinarcadiaego]

Thanks for the tips.

I have some fresh soil and amendments, but the pots are being shipped to me right now, and aren't scheduled to arrive until friday . . . is that too late?

None of my local stores have planting or nursery containers, only those clay pots and none of the stuff they sell is larger than what my plants are currently in . . . .

I do know my local store sells hydrated lime, but I also have pH up (the liquid hydroponic stuff).

How would I add the hydrated lime? To the water?

I just watered Saturday and a lot of people have mentioned my plants look badly overwatered . . . should I wait to water with anything?

Also, I'm running out of vertical space for my plants, especially knowing they'll stretch early in flowering. They are currently about 18" tall, having been topped a couple of times. Hmm. Let me know what you think.

 

[dillhole]

Yes, liquid pH up will work. Just add it to your nute solution until the ph is about 7.5 or so, you don't want to shock them by going higher. Drill plenty of drain holes, that will help aerate the soil. Very low pH is worse than overwatering imo. You could add about a tsp of hydrogen peroxide to the mix, it will help oxygenate the soil too.

You may try to lst, or tie them down, to keep them low.

I gotta go right now but I'll be back later if you have more questions.

DH

 

[dillhole]

One other thing, if you use hydrated lime add a couple of tbsp per gallon of water. Dont freak out if you check the pH of the solution and it's very high. Hydrated lime is a weak base and will get neutralized very quickly by the soil. It also wont last long before getting used up. PH up is better, just be more careful with it.

When the new pots arrive you may want to mix some dolomite lime into the soil mixture. It's slow acting and will help buffer the soil throughout flowering. I think the rule of thumb is 1/4 cup lime per cubic foot of soil. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

If you try to lst (low stress training) the plants, be slow and gentle. The stems are probably pretty firm by now and it wont take much to snap them. I tie mine down with wires and adjust them a little each day until the stem conforms to the desired shape. You can also wait a week or two before switching to the HPS. The red spectrum will contribute to the flowering strech. Just wait until the first stretch is done and then use the HPS. That may save a few inches.

DH