Leafs being chewed up but no signs of pests. Plus droopy leafs + rams horn! GOOD PICS

[lysol]

Leafs have been droopy, water level is within 1" of bottom of net pot, sleight rams horn is developing, on some of the larger leafs the very edge of the leaf is rolled under, I also have chew marks... I think some similar chew marks showed up on my other plant, I definitely don't have any caterpillars and a magnifier shows no bugs, should I spray with neem or is the plant(s) just growing this way from stress? No tip burn or other signs of feeding probs. Just did a changeout 5 days ago and again today, ( to get rid of the veg nutes ). The N could explain the rams horn but not the droopy leafs if I am correct. PH naturally 5.7 - 6.0 with little to no intervention from me. Entering 2nd week of 12 / 12, still no preflowers or alternating nodes, although I thought I saw a little bump earlier, too early still tho. Strain = mazar Sherif, nute temps 68-72. Day temps 77-83F, night temps 69F

 

[SilverTrain09]

Looks like a bite to me. What is the temp in your room?

 

[lysol]

I was editing my post, I just added that info, that big of bite youd think id find the pests quickly tho? My schultz 3 in 1 says do not apply to wilted or otherwise stressed plants.

 

[lysol]

Photo of the developing rams horn. I uploaded this pic but I had to take it down and re-edit it because I realized I was shirtless and I had a nip slip. lmfao! ( reflection )

BTW - if I was the pest I would have totally gone for the white rhino instead.

 

[SilverTrain09]

I have had some look like that after super cropping. Might not be a bug.
Besides that it looks like a nutrient problem to me.

 

[lysol]

Cool, yeah I figured it could be any # or combination of things, too cold of nutes, too much nutes / not right ratios, stress from pruning ( I snapped instead of super cropped ). Thanks for the 2nd opinion

 

[shaunmulok]

I am currently having the same problem but on some plants i haven't topped or cropped,
i am running coco with coco nutes low e.c's and ph'ed at 5.8
i notice there would be a few small white dots on leaves then the next day there would be a hole where the white dots were a day before
i sat in my room for 4 hours with a magnifying glass looking for bugs but could find nothing
so i neemed i thought it had worked but i think i have new holes today it has me at a loss

 

[lysol]

this plant i cant get as good of photos of but there is a tear on the "main finger" of this emerging fan that spans along a leaf fold all the way to the center ( vein ) of the 'finger', I think it is likely to be a deformation and not bite marks since the different strains are altered similarly, if there were a pest I dont see why it would affect the plants differently, but who knows.. we'll see

By the way I am running FoxFarm nutes, this one on 700ppm of grow, the first plant ( larger one ) is on like 900 ppm ( by the way the half fans on that are a FIM )

 

[lysol]

more, can you see the white dots to the right of the tear in the first one? If they are pests they are eating "along" the veins it seems like

 

[shaunmulok]

Yep that is the exact same thing as mine WTF??

 

[lysol]

Since we are both seeing white dots, and I realize the size of the bites being different is because the scale of the bite mark scales as the plant grows, I am going to spray down with shultz 3 in 1 all my plants fungicide insecticide pesticide, cant hurt ( I hope ). its garden safe and ive used it once before on MJ, just coated the plants ( and I didnt even shake the bottle before applying I realized after, hopefully it does more good then harm ). My leaves should be super shiny in the morning

I would still like to get a positive ID on these things tho

 

[lysol]

Dont the roots look healthy in the first pics? Temps been at 68F, wake up this morning temps at 70F, add a bottle and notice the roots all rotted overnight! ( I run my lights at day and keep nute temps in good check )

This plant wasnt even directly under the light either, the one that was directly under the light and runs 1F higher in the nutes is just as healthy as ever, I sprayed the shultz on all 3 plants and this is the only one drooping like this ( forgot to upload the pic of the plant but basically the leaves are more droopy like very minor rams horn kicking in and is still showing new growth. This was a "test plant" but if I can't grow this 1 how am I gonna grow the others lol

PH drifted to 6.3 probably dead root material shifting the PH?

 

[shaunmulok]

That looks nasty let me know how you go i have 2 plants in DWC but my roots i hope never look like that
My plants are still getting holes i dont know
There is a couple pics of my roots today in my test grows in my sig

 

[Amstel Light]

do you own a cat?

 

[shaunmulok]

yes, why?

 

[lysol]

do you own a cat?

no sir. And yeah I kept telling myself "keep temps and in check and ull never see that nasty root rot", I am paranoid about it and religious with the frozen bottles. Very low 70s worst it got was maybe 75 for 20 minutes here and there, with dips into the low 60s ( hard to keep them exactly stable without a chiller ).

I was going to get a chiller for the next run but now I'm starting to get turned off by hydro, its been more work than soil which was worth it until this started :-( Just noticed chewed up leaves on my white rhino, the roots look really healthy with the exception of a few that are a lil brown stained here n there, but thats exactly what the mazar sharif did before it fucked itself overnight

 

[lysol]

I had loss of root vigor on another plant weeks earlier, with the foxfarm nutes I am getting lots of floaty stuff. Before I had a similiar but different slime and lots of brown floaty flakes, that plant is still recovering but I am 99% sure it isnt root rot but some other type of less harmful bacteria or something....

so here is what I did, first I double checked I didnt have any pumps plugged into the 12/12 side of my strip, etc.. any pitfalls like that, everything was good so I added more air stones and the drooping continue to get worse. I was googling and found various suggestions that I implemented, first I filled up with ph water after scrubbing down the bucket, no nutes, poured some 3% h202 ( i know lots of MJ sites say to use it but lots of other gardening sites says it is fine ). Then I took my plant and went into the bathtub, I blasted the water really hard nice and luke warm, I took clumps of roots in my hand let them pass thru the blasting water. The runoff in the tub looked exactly like my other plant did when it had root issue, brown flakes in the runoff. The roots are a lot more white now but still off color, it untangled them some, but it looks like there are less roots overall, I think they are just mostly sticking together because when I cleaned off a lot of the slime I am able to view more feeders before just looked like slime.

I am contributing this to the big bloom ( the organic one of the trio ), I've used it before on soil grows just fine. I just re-read the bottle and nowhere on it does it say anything about hydro, on the contrary my growbig is the hydro version. Likewise on the tiger bloom it says "safe for hydro and soil".

On their feeding schedule it says to use big bloom for hydro though, but NOWHERE on the bottle. So at this point everything else seems in check its gotta be this big bloom crap. Also I smelled my roots up close it smells like potatoes. In the thread I found ( http://www.gardenscure.com/420/hydroponics/14823-i-think-i-have-root-rot.html ) it says smell is a sure fire way to id the prob, Im guessing potatoes = growth not death. He didnt mention nutes but did say his was organics and experienced extreme PH raises

I have my plant under a 26w cfl in the h202 as to not "overtax" its nutrient uptake system. I guess theres not much else I can do at this point.

More of the torn leafs are showing up on the white rhino now too, great! ( sarcasm ). With all these woes I hope I get some good "stuff" from them

 

[shaunmulok]

wow that shit sucks bro i hope the wash will revive and save it for ya
I'm about to inspect my girls so i will see if there is anymore damage
peace

 

[thoughtcollapse]

700/900 ppm for veg is a lot especially for the size of your plants. Try lowering your ppm's to 300-400 and make sure your using hydro only nutes. Keeping your pH range around 5.3 to 5.7 will probably help too.

 

[lysol]

Its been under 12/12 for over a week, does that change anything? That could be why my leaves arent getting dark? I read small stress like PH or anything like that ( overnutes ) can weaken the root's defenses, and whatever the craps called that causes root rot is always present in trace amounts

Damn Ive been having problem after problem to the point where I have contemplated ripping the plants out so I can get back to my real life. I would really appreciate if someone could tell me

1) is root rot possible to overcome? My googles tells me yea but stitch's guide implies my plant will 100% die?

and 2)
What ppm should I run for a plant vegged to around 6-8"

Week 1 of flower?
Week 2 etc..

should I start at like ... 300ppm, and add 100ppm only each week?

Ive been told 1000x to just read my plants, but when I see no tip burn and yellowing bottom leaves I increase ppm, I just have no idea at all what a good increase is. My only grow id consider a real success I didnt even PH my water or measure my nutes ( soil ). Ive never kept all my bottom fans past the 4th week of flower which I feel greatly reduces my potential.

Also I have to PH down a lot it seems, like daily basically. Ive been told PH up feed up. Maybe the nutes are stressing the plants, which allows bacterial infections which screws with the PH?

I'll have roots really fuzzy white and if I let them touch my nutes they loose all the fine hairs like the nutes are toxic, is this a surefire sign of overfeeding? In other words are submerged roots supposed to grow really fuzzy because on my uppermost roots do. Not sure if its o2 or if its nutes or both?

Also my tap starts at 150ppm and I quote final ppm #s, when people quote ppm#s do they normally use distilled water or subtract off their starting ppm?