Organic 'has no health benefits' !

[osirica420]

Anyone see this BS article they just released its insane!
Tell me what you think?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8174482.stm

 

[TheGoodStuff]

Total lies.


Also,

Dr Dangour, said: "Our review indicates that there is currently no evidence to support the selection of organically over conventionally produced foods on the basis of nutritional superiority."

He added that better quality studies were needed.

Peter Melchett, policy director at the Soil Association said they were disappointed with the conclusions.

"The review rejected almost all of the existing studies of comparisons between organic and non-organic nutritional differences.

"Although the researchers say that the differences between organic and non-organic food are not 'important', due to the relatively few studies, they report in their analysis that there are higher levels of beneficial nutrients in organic compared to non-organic foods.

"Without large-scale, longitudinal research it is difficult to come to far-reaching clear conclusions on this, which was acknowledged by the authors of the FSA review.

"Also, there is not sufficient research on the long-term effects of pesticides on human health," he added.





I could understand saying that the nutritional content of organic and non-organic foods are about the same (i.e. calories), but to say that there are no health benefits...

 

[swampy_nz]

lol
all those herbicides and pesticides and other chemicals have got to be good for ya.

 

[SDOG]

lol just laugh it off let the zombies eat it up. Pun intended XD

 

[CaptainTrips]

If your just talking nutrients, or whether something is certified organic, or whatever. I'd agree. But if your talking herbicides, pesticides and whatever other garbage they might use, yeah not so much.

 

[nepalnt21]

i love how they call food that isnt organic "ordinary food"

 

[nepalnt21]

f-ing duh there wont be much nutritional difference

thats not what organics are about

 

[geopolitical]

I think one of the major objections I have to "organic" foods is the fact that most of them produced commercially aren't done sustainably. It's one thing to grow "organically" it's another to do so in a manner that would be conductive to the average person being able to afford your product or without using methods that are questionable at best for the environment long term.

Case in point, we had an organic co-op "basket" delivery service that gathered materials from various participating farms. Great idea. However when the wife looked into the various farms she found some very disturbing practices. Curious as to how we were getting organic local food out of season she looked into them. Turns out the local farmers were using controlled atmosphere storage.

So they took a crop produced "organically" and then spent something like 5x more energy to store it long term locally than it would have taken to move it across the country from an area that was in season. Which of course meant they could charge a premium for locally produced foods but it sort of kills the whole idea of the low carbon miles/local food/etc.

This being said, I grew up on a farm. We didn't (and they still don't) use pesticides or commercial fertilizers, even "organic" ones. We flame weed at night, selected resistant cultivars and never had large monocultures. We have a small dairy on the farm that not only produces a very nice cheese, it provides the raw material for keeping the fields in play. Fields were and still are tilled minimally and not at all in many cases and are rotated to allow fallow time.

When I took a tour of an "organic" farm locally I was a bit shocked by the idiocy present. Most culture techniques I saw were either industrial agriculture adapted to different sources of fertilizer and pesticide or well, were just plain wonky.

I'm no expert, but our family has been keeping the same 800 acres productive for nearly 230 years now and somehow I don't see a lot of these current farmers doing as well with the methods they are using.

 

[Centrum]

ORGANIC IS BULLSHIT !!!

ORGANIC IS BULLSHIT !!!

Anyone see the organic is Bullshit Episode?
Would have been really cool if they could have included marijuana in that episode.

Anyways i thought it was nice that they challenged something that is only based on opinion.

Take care

 

[motaco]

I'll certainly say it.

Back before OG I always used chem nutes. Once OG came along I learned all about pure blend pro and how great it was because it's all organic and because "you don't have to flush organics," bla bla bla. Grew an entire crop of the worst tasting, harshest smoking crap I've ever personally grown. Thought I did something wrong and tried it again. Until I just talked to a few people in the same boat and went back to jacks classic. Never looking back.

Lost a lot of respect for growers who think organics don't need to be flushed. Quite frankly I think they just can't tell, just like some people can't tell an indica hybrid from a sativa hybrid. Since that time I've smoked several examples of "fully organic pot" from proud growers with swelled chests. Most of them sizzled and popped like firecrackers in the bowl. Leaving crunchy black ash, and sore throats.

IMHO stay away from fish emulsion, and guano. They are the two main culprits. Won't do any harm in veg and early flower I don't think. But I'd stay away towards the end. Unless you leave many weeks for the organics to finish breaking down it is often very harsh smoke.

I'll do it on a pure sativa because I don't feed those last 3-4 weeks. But on a 60 day hybrid you won't catch me using pure organics.

Jacks Classic FTW!!!

 

[h^2 O]

interesting. I feed only with water. Might go crazy with a capfull of fishgut juice, but that's it - all water. I like to smoke buds not nutes/chemicals - like they say, you are what you eat. Probably applies to buds too. Feed them shit they'll be shit. Feed them chemicals they'll be chemicals.

 

[mtnmama420]

If you use something like molasses during flowering in constant low doses, no you certainly don't need to flush and yes the weed tastes good. Your vaguely described experience isn't the norm.

 

[PazVerdeRadical]

I'll certainly say it.

Back before OG I always used chem nutes. Once OG came along I learned all about pure blend pro and how great it was because it's all organic and because "you don't have to flush organics," bla bla bla. Grew an entire crop of the worst tasting, harshest smoking crap I've ever personally grown. Thought I did something wrong and tried it again. Until I just talked to a few people in the same boat and went back to jacks classic. Never looking back.

Lost a lot of respect for growers who think organics don't need to be flushed. Quite frankly I think they just can't tell, just like some people can't tell an indica hybrid from a sativa hybrid. Since that time I've smoked several examples of "fully organic pot" from proud growers with swelled chests. Most of them sizzled and popped like firecrackers in the bowl. Leaving crunchy black ash, and sore throats.

IMHO stay away from fish emulsion, and guano. They are the two main culprits. Won't do any harm in veg and early flower I don't think. But I'd stay away towards the end. Unless you leave many weeks for the organics to finish breaking down it is often very harsh smoke.

I'll do it on a pure sativa because I don't feed those last 3-4 weeks. But on a 60 day hybrid you won't catch me using pure organics.

Jacks Classic FTW!!!

good afternoon motaco, good to read you

flushing is a must for everyone who grows in containers, whether organic or synthetic/mineral, imo.

just to comment on your organic experiment gone bad... maybe if you had tried vegging plants only using a very good initial soil-mix, and adding more compost on top as the girls start to flower; and add only water, no additional nutes or teas, unless it is some kind of freshly made banana infusion to boost potassium gently at the start of flowering, then you would have seen the benefits... learning and implementing organics takes time, it takes time to start making a compost, and working the soil into having the proper texture etc...

much peace man

 

[Centrum]

I like how they had all those organic people doing the blind test and they chose the chemical fertilized food as the better tasting food each time.
And the Banana test where they cut a chemical fertilized banana in halve and labeled one as chemical and one as organic and every person agreed that the organic banana was the better tasting and starting explaining why it tasted so much better.
Funny as hell how the power of belief conquers even the most intelligent people.

 

[r13f]

i have had both that were good and bad, so it is all in the flush/last 3+ weeks or so imo

 

[CaptainTrips]

good afternoon motaco, good to read you

flushing is a must for everyone who grows in containers, whether organic or synthetic/mineral, imo.

just to comment on your organic experiment gone bad... maybe if you had tried vegging plants only using a very good initial soil-mix, and adding more compost on top as the girls start to flower; and add only water, no additional nutes or teas, unless it is some kind of freshly made banana infusion to boost potassium gently at the start of flowering, then you would have seen the benefits... learning and implementing organics takes time, it takes time to start making a compost, and working the soil into having the proper texture etc...

much peace man

How does one flush "organic" if the nutes are part of the soil... like blood meal, guano, etc... ? As for flushing itself, I am kind of skeptical. It would be real interesting to have a simular blind testing for weed... Organically grown, hydro, flushed, not flushed. I'd be surprised if most could tell any of them apart at a high % assuming the same strain.

 

[The End Is Near]

I'll certainly say it.

Back before OG I always used chem nutes. Once OG came along I learned all about pure blend pro and how great it was because it's all organic and because "you don't have to flush organics," bla bla bla. Grew an entire crop of the worst tasting, harshest smoking crap I've ever personally grown. Thought I did something wrong and tried it again. Until I just talked to a few people in the same boat and went back to jacks classic. Never looking back.

Lost a lot of respect for growers who think organics don't need to be flushed. Quite frankly I think they just can't tell, just like some people can't tell an indica hybrid from a sativa hybrid. Since that time I've smoked several examples of "fully organic pot" from proud growers with swelled chests. Most of them sizzled and popped like firecrackers in the bowl. Leaving crunchy black ash, and sore throats.

IMHO stay away from fish emulsion, and guano. They are the two main culprits. Won't do any harm in veg and early flower I don't think. But I'd stay away towards the end. Unless you leave many weeks for the organics to finish breaking down it is often very harsh smoke.

I'll do it on a pure sativa because I don't feed those last 3-4 weeks. But on a 60 day hybrid you won't catch me using pure organics.

Jacks Classic FTW!!!

Interesting stuff. Care to tell us your full mix/ feeding schedule. I was seriously thinking of getting 22 pounds of guano for an organic mix. Do you just flush for a long time, and how do you flush specifically (people do it different).

 

[PazVerdeRadical]

How does one flush "organic" if the nutes are part of the soil... like blood meal, guano, etc... ? As for flushing itself, I am kind of skeptical. It would be real interesting to have a simular blind testing for weed... Organically grown, hydro, flushed, not flushed. I'd be surprised if most could tell any of them apart at a high % assuming the same strain.

it does not matter if the nutes are part of the soil or not...

you can "flush" compost... provided whatever gets to grow on it sucks all the nutrients off of it, then you would have "flushed" your soil...

for example, I can do an organic soil mix that will carry a 2 week old plant transplanted into a 5gal pot for about 12 weeks before the plant starts to demand more nutrients...

no blood or bone meal either, i do not use that stuff.

worm humus, compost of grass clippings, banana peels, eggs shells, rice caskets, coco coir, cow/chicken/horse manure... these are my friends.

peace

 

[motaco]

IMO I found it pretty hard to get high organic nutrient levels to drop quickly. PAZ you use different organic compost than I did but I never had much luck flushing organics.

IMHO flushing organic nutes is very hard. I'm not sure how well it can be done. I think the plant must actually use them up rather than them to be rinsed out. That was why on pure sativas I'd grow organic without a problem I'd just quit feeding and give water. They'd eat themselves up and smoke great, but they had the time to do it.

But when I take that idea to a 60 day hybrid I found the amounts of dry organic nutes needed for healthy growth lasted into later flowering periods and gave bad tastes.

I'd like to state my opinion clearly, because I don't want it to seem like I'm bashing anyone. I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from growing however they like. But in my personal experience I'm just trying to grow EASY and foolproof with the best results possible.

I use a base soil of blood and bone meal, and alfalfa or kelp. Whatever I have around. Standard formula that most growers use. I supplement with liquid ferts throughout, but towards the last 2 weeks I like to have very close control. I find it's important for both resin and bud development that hybrids have ample nutes during the 4th and 3rd week before the end of harvest, but I also think it's very important that the nutes be gone at harvest. So very quickly I want the high nutrient levels to drop. During this time most growers use fast acting guano teas but I've always found them to foul the final smoking quality. The other option is to add compost to it, but I always felt it broke down too slowly.

It can be done, for sure. I but I just think it takes more skill and takes the grower being much more in touch with his growing medium. IOW more of a PITA to the average guy who just wants good smoke as easy as possible.

Mine is very simple. When the bottom two leaves start getting a little less green I give it liquid nutes. By the last few weeks of flower it's heavily dependent on liquid nute supplements and has mostly eaten the slow release dry organic nutes. And when they suddenly stop getting it for those last two weeks the plant really eats itself and provides excellent smoke. The chem nutes are so fast acting I can control the level of nutrients better IMO, and when they stop getting them it has a more dramatic flushing effect. In short I just found Jacks Classic to be cheap, easy, fast acting, and fast flushing. Smooth cool smoke and white ash that leaves only dust.

I've never really seen any benefits of organics that justified the extra work to me. That was why I was so stoked about Pure Blend Pro. It was the easy liquid nutes I was used to, but I just wasn't pleased with the results. Many are, and if you want fast acting organic nutes I still recommend it to people. The actual nutrient levels are fantastic, you can grow great plants. I just felt the smoke quality was lacking. However I don't find it lacking over any home made guano tea, and PBP is much easier than home teas, and will allow the average grower a better chance of controlling the nutrient levels of organics in small restricted pots for instance.

But just for me, the jacks classic is easier, dramatically cheaper, doesn't go bad, requires no mixing, doesn't stink, is clean, and just provided the quick results I like. I think FLUSH really means when the plant is out of nutes and has eaten all of its major leaves dead. That gives me the smoke I like.

 

[PazVerdeRadical]

motaco,

I hear what you are saying; if you already have your system down which produces healthy buds, then trying to go organics and have it work as smooth as the system you already have worked-out in a short time, is not too realistic for sure.

in organic growing we can always do a soil-mix that is very light on nutes and that the plant will use up without question; for example: a base mix of coco-coir, rice caskets and vermiculite will end-up as an all organic soil-mix without any nutritional value. maybe add some dry compost, or dry worm humus, or a bit of both... in one run with ten different pots with ten different concentrations will give one a very good idea of how much and how fast a plant can take up the provided nutrients in organic-soil form.

adding ingredients to composts heaps is key, what to add, what not to add... I am very picky and only add very few things... or buy this excellent local compost also made with very specific ingredients... no fish, no blood, no bone meal, not even any dung from any animal... it is basically made from the chopped-up, cooked and composted left-over greens from sugar cane and corn crops mainly.
gotta use ingredients that degrade easily and are absorbed easily too.

much peace