vermiculite... useful?

[Woall]

I am looking for something to mix with Fox Farm Ocean Forest, the store didn't have perlite. I have read that vermiculite absorbs water.. but on the package it says it improves drainage and reduces compaction. How does a substance that absorbs water improve drainage? Should I go look for perlite, should I mix OF with vermiculite, or should I just use OF straight?

 

[Sir_Nugget]

mix it up with perlite

 

[JackTheGrower]

I am looking for something to mix with Fox Farm Ocean Forest, the store didn't have perlite. I have read that vermiculite absorbs water.. but on the package it says it improves drainage and reduces compaction. How does a substance that absorbs water improve drainage? Should I go look for perlite, should I mix OF with vermiculite, or should I just use OF straight?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermiculite

Vermiculite is a natural mineral that expands with the application of heat. The expansion process is called exfoliation and it is routinely accomplished in purpose-designed commercial furnaces

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soil_conditioner

Materials such as diatomaceous earth, clay, vermiculite, hydrogel, and shredded bark will make soil hold more water.

I remember mixing vermiculite with a type of cement in horticulture class back in 7th grade.. I haven't used it in California.

It's a "expanded mineral" and it holds water. It improves drainage because of it's particle size.. I assume because of it's porosity it can hold some too.

i don't know where you are but you may wish to consider soil structure for your locale http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soil_structure

Basically I want a soil that drains well but not so much that evaporation from the soil and transpiration of the plants are disrupted.

It's not easy to guess how to answer but perlite is a safe bet with high ratios of organic materials IMO.
I compost my compost mixes with perlite in it because it gets air into soggy materials well.

I should try an experiment with Vermic and perlite to see how they work...

 

[Mr. Greengenes]

I prefer perlite because I recycle my soilmix and it seems to last longer, but vermiculite is fine too if I can't find the perlite. Recently, I switched to pumice which I think is much better. I'd say the vermiculite and perlite were interchangeable.

 

[Woall]

so vermiculite and perlite can be used interchangeably?

I read vermiculite contains asbestos? Is that a concern? should plants be grown in asbestos?

 

[yortbogey]

NO...NO....NO....perlite floatz....ie. dos'nt absorb water..........
vermic.....HOLDZ....tons of water...it will waterlog and sogg out U'r potz if uses alone instead of perlite........
vermic....does add in the uptake of nutez......but toomuch is a BAD thang.................

 

[VerdantGreen]

yes, vermiculite holds lots of water. the shape and size of the pieces will keep the soil open and airy like perlite and thus improve drainage but it itself holds water.

i wouldnt really say they are interchangable - jmo.

V.

p.s. asbestos is very inert - you just dont want to breath the dust of it in.

 

[JackTheGrower]

so vermiculite and perlite can be used interchangeably?

I read vermiculite contains asbestos? Is that a concern? should plants be grown in asbestos?

Not all vermiculite contains asbestos; however, some products have been made with vermiculite containing asbestos.

http://www.idph.state.il.us/envhealth/factsheets/vermiculite.htm

I had forgotten that so Thank you.

Perlite or horticultural charcoal then.. works fine.. Maybe vermic if you live in the desert...

 

[bakelite]

IMHO perlite is better for aeration, drainage etc., but vermiculite does have some benefits. It has a fairly high CEC value which helps with the uptake of nutes. Also it is a source of some key minerals, albeit probably very slow release. This may be better suited for people who reuse/recycle their soil.


TYPICAL CHEMICAL ANALYSIS
Element Percent by Weight
SiO2 38-46
AL2O3 10-16
MgO 16-35
CaO 1-5
K2O 1-6
Fe2O3 6-13
TiO2 1-3
H2O 8-16
Other 0.2-1.2

 

[selfprofider]

IMO I use small amounts of vermic with at least 2x amount perlite Using too much vermic makes the soil soggy slows plant growth and makes it real hard for any kind of flushing if needed

 

[Woall]

thanks for that link, Jack.

about 5 years ago I kept a bag of vermiculite in my bedroom because i was growing a couple of plants in my closet. I'm sure that when I poured it into the big pots to mix with my soil (done in the bedroom), if it had asbestos in it it would have been airborne. I wonder how long it lingers in the air or on things and poses risk. And I wonder if the major stores would even carry a product containing asbestos. Oh well... I haven't died yet

 

[habeeb]

FFOF is so heavy , you need perlite or rice hulls

 

[JackTheGrower]

FFOF is so heavy , you need perlite or rice hulls

How do you like Rice hulls? I read it works and then breaks down nice.

 

[JackTheGrower]

I haven't died yet

To quote a favorite! "No one gets out Alive"

Party on

 

[DocLeaf]

Vermiculate works better with tropical sativa than indica IME.

Hope this helps

 

[bullsaidart]

The best possible mix would be both perlite and vermiculate equally at 30% to total oceanforest, in other words 15% perlite 15% vermiculate and 70% ocean forest.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

FFOF needs nothing. It has plenty of perlite in it already. It drains perfectly.

 

[maryjohn]

I would save the vermiculite for cloning unless your area is very arid.

For cloning, 50/50 vermiculite and perlite with no additives does a very good job.

 

[yortbogey]

Vermiculate works better with tropical sativa than indica IME.

Hope this helps

I could see this in Asian sativa where the soil is often soggy.......
Yeah Docleaf...maybe Vermic would help.....soggy sativa's

kewl....good point..........

 

[DocLeaf]

We know for sure that Afghans prefer free-draining soil types ,, with little water ,, so perlite is the vibe... or coco pebbles.

Lowland plants will tolerate more water in the soil content,, so vermiculite can be used in soil mixes containing ingredients that are prone to dry out quick (like sphagnum moss).

We only ever add a max of 5-10% vermiculite to home soil mixes.. otherwise roots cant breath and plant growth is stunted.

Coco fibre has similar properties ...! we prefer adding it as an organic option to vermiculite.

Hope this helps