Growroom setup help

[ericsson]

A up,
so I've converted one room in a flat into a growroom and I'm thinking of the best possible way to make the growspace and grow method most effective. At first I though of a SOG and this is what I tried, but now I'm not sure if this was a good choice - my first grow turned out to be a disaster (first I've over and then under watered the plants, about 30% of them died), the others I think never fully recovered even though I kept them on veg for over a month (at first I though of going straight in 12/12 for the SOG). This terrible grow is comming to an end now (thank God), it looks like I will have close the NOTHING out of it - well, except for the experience (I used 6"x6" square pots, so now I have a pretty good idea of how often they need watering in which stage of life).

Anyway, here's a few pics of the room and my tragic first grow:




The pictures above show the bigger part of the room - it can hold up to 120 6"x6" square pots. The second part (below) is a bit smaller (not set up yet) and will be able to fit about 80 pots, giving the sum of 200 pots per grow:


for the whole grow area (the bigger part of the room measures 245cm x 140cm which is about 8' x 4,6') I have 4 x 400W HPS lights, 2 going over each grow area. 2 standing, oscilating fans, and 2 intake/outtake bathroom fans (5" diameter), one is sucking in air from the space I left between the windows of the room and the wall of my growroom (the window is always slightly tilted open), the second fan is fitted in the opposite growroom wall (in the top part) and sucks out the hot air directly into a ventilation unit in the bathroom. The temperature never exceed'ed 30*C (86*F) during lights on and never fell below 22*C (72*F) during lights off, so they are doing their job. Humidity in the growroom is between 35%-55% depending if its before of after watering the plants.

Now I'm getting ready for the second grow, and I'm really deaperate to make it work out this time. I have mixed feeling for my SOG ideas after the first grow (none of the plants grew taller then 18" and the crops will be as I mentioned close to zero - I waisted 3 months of running 800W HPS's, fans and 3 months of rent), so I cant afford to fuck up this time.

What growing method would you guys suggest for my setup? I was thinking of dtiching the SOG experiments, and going the for the "traditional" way - normal size, 10 liter growpots, 30 day veg, 8-9 week flo. But then again perhaps I'm paranoid about the SOG due to my fuck-up's and I should give it another go? One thing is sure - as you can tell from the photos, I don't have to worrie about the plants growing to high, as there is more then plenty room. But I guess I'm kinda afraid to give it another go, and God forbid end up with nothing again..

This BlueKill is probably the best plant that survived - from my SOG they all look like stick's not proper plants:



Any help will be verry appreciated, as I truly have no clue which way to go now and need the smarter people to give me a hand

Thanks alot, take care!
ericsson

 

[ericsson]

No one has any ideas, or did a write somthing stupid?

 

[HydroFarmer]

What's up ericsson,

Love the amount of space you have...sounds like you gained some invaluable experience during your first attempt. I am no soil grower, I do DWC...very simple and I love it...but with what you have you could actually flower and veg 60/40, respectively.

I like how you have it laid out in the pics...maybe put some sort of divider up in the room and actually make 2 rooms in one...endless possibilities though...

Man....that room could hold pppllllleeeennnttyyyyy of 5 gallon buckets though...

 

[KarMic]

hey man, that's a nice grow...first of all what exactly went wrong with your first grow? have you determined this?

You and I have similar setups...

I veg my plants for 5-6 weeks from seed in 11L pots of promix using chem nutes, and i top them after 3-4 nodes...after that, they go into the 3gal pots and into 12/12..and that's about it.

I think the most important thing is to pinpoint where you went wrong on your 1st grow.

 

[KarMic]

Also, do you have a separate room for vegging...I think with that amount of space you make a very successful perpetual grow.

You have to realize that these plants need plenty of attention, especially during the first weeks of its life.

 

[ericsson]

Hey dude's,
thank you both for the replies!

HyrdoFarmer - what do you mean by going 60/40 for flower and veg (you ment dividin the room into 2 parts - the bigger part for flowering and the smaller for vegging)? If yes - for the clones and vegging I use the bathroom, so the room on the pictures is strictly a flower room. 5 gallon buckets you say - I was thinking of 2,5 gallons (11L), as filling the whole room of 5 gallon buckets with soil is a shit load of work and a major mess with it (and there will be plenty with teh 11L any way ). Yet, in general you would go for big buckets, and "traditional" 4-5 week veg and then flower instead of 6"x6" pots, SOG and 12/12 from the beggining?

KarMic - well, the main thing was that in the beggining I fucked up first with over watering, then when I wanted to let them dry out, I over did it as well and after that the ones that survived never fully recovered, though I was full of hope all the time (or just foolish, yet it's my first indoor and I wasn't sure what to expect). You say that our setup's are silimar and you also chose big pots instead of a larg amount of small ones, SOG and no veg? When having big pots, can you also squeeze them as tight as the small ones I have in the pics? In terms of fully using the light spectrum, grow space and overall crops you would suggest the "traditional" way for me as well?? Oh, and one more question - do I have enough light for the space I'm using? I'm pretty sure I will go for the 11L and 4-5 weeks veg this time, leave a few moms (this time I will have Big Bang form Greenhouse, and F2 White Rhino, NYCD and [Early Skunk x ChemdogDD] x Early Skunk from Hot Cargo. On the left side there are also about 50 DieselRyder's, which when for the 12/12 from popping out of the soil, but they are just meant for a quick harvest to survive, as you can see I won't have anything from those 30some sticks left on the right side. Also - just out of curiosity - if for a room like mine most people say to go for big pots and big plants, then where is it worth working with the SOG (as I have read that many people get better results using the SOG method, this is why I decided to give it a go).

Thanks again,
ericsson

 

[KarMic]

Ok, I have 1 600whps and 1 250whps, under both of those lamps I could fit 9-12 plants in the 3gal containers...each plant yeilds 2.5-3oz dried...I sacrifice numbers for bigger plants. You won't be able to have them so tightly put together with the larger pots, unless you prune them to get one single main cola. In my case, I grow AK-48, which is a branchy plant, I wouldn't be able to have more plants because they would overlap each other. Since it's a stretchy/lanky plant I use stake to keep them under control.

From what I could see, i think some of the plant aren't getting enough light...so I would cut back on the numbers and give them a longer veg. Again I see you seem to have plenty of space. So a dedicated veg room would help a lot. Cut back on the numbers and lower the lights maybe 5".

Only 2 of the 400 watter are up and running?...are the other 2 on movers? I use my 600 for a 5x5 area, with no problems, however, my plants are 18-20" tall when I put them in 12/12.

I think you'll get the hang of it pretty soon...just combine everything you learn and choose the methods that best suit you.

I find that with less plants, I could pay much more attention to each one.

 

[ericsson]

Im not sure if in my case (a pertty larg room) pruning for a single cola would make any sense? Perhaps, as you said - cutting down on the numbers would be a good idea, but then on the other hand if I'd throw in a few more plants which wouldn't neccesarly have enough light - always somthing will grow out of them. About the spaces between the plants - how much distance should there be? Do you have seperate plates / risers under each pot, or do you use a bigger plastic dish / cuvet for a few pots to share? About the veg room - as I mentioned, I'm using the bathroom as a veg / clone / future mother room, as if you take a look at the picture of the right side of the flower room - thats where another two 400 watters will hand - just like on the left side and my goal is to fill the whole room (well, as much as the light spectrum will make it possible) for each grow. From what I've calculated, I'd be able to fit 2 11L pots in each of my plastic cuvets, and I'd leave 8 cuvets (the space of 4'x3') under each 400 watter, giving me 16 plants under each 400W, so I'm wondering why can you only fit 12 plants under 850W? And going back to the SOG once more - if people claim it's so effective in terms of the crop / space / light usage, in what kind of setup would I chose it?

Take care,
Eric

 

[FreezerBoy]

While I'm a big fan of DWC, before you switch, or try your current method again, we need to figure what went so horribly wrong. Before coming here, I could get bigger, fatter plants than that with a 150 in 4" rockwool cube SOG. However they were still measured against my thumb. One IC guided, 250 watt grow later, I was measuring against my forearm.

Just what is in those pots, if anything, besides hydroton? How often did you water? How long between waterings? Foods? Feed schedule? pH?

 

[ericsson]

Thanks for bumping in, FreezerBoy!
Well, to start with - I suppose the main and biggest problem, which basicly screwed up my whole grow was the first over then underwatering my plants, after which about 30% of them died, and the rest never fully recovered as I mentioned (despite of leaving them in the veg stage for about 2-3 weeks longer then planned). My pots are filled with a mixture of plain flower soil (balanced between 5,5-6,5pH), 30% perlite and some hydroton on the bottom and top layer of the pots (+ a small % also went into the soil mix). When I nearly killed them with the overwatering - it was every 3 days, about 250ml of water for each pot, which in the first days of life of my plants what much too many. Once I figured out the watering scheme, it was 4-5 days using the "pot weight" system. As for feeding, I'm using the GHE 3 part (half of the dosage given for hydroponics, as I was instructed from the measures on the bottles), an organic fertilizer called Biohumus, which is worm castings (you dilute it with watter - 15ml for each liter of watter) and plain tap water, all with a balanced pH of around 5.8-6. So the feed schedule is GHE 3 part, next watering the organic Biohumus, and next watering plain balanced tap water. About the pH - I really couldn't keep it below 7-pH, even though in the later period I made sure my solutions had a pH of 5,5 (using a aquarium PH down). I have to use it every time, as the tap water has a pH of around 7,6-7,8, and despite of keeping the pH level of the water at 5,5 each time, my soil is always above 7pH (as for the drainage water). I even tried using lime juice to balance the pH, with the same result - always above 7..

So, I understand that you would also suggest I went for the bigger 11L pots (the 6"x6" on the picture are 2,5L), normal veg time etc. instead of the SOG experiments? Once again I must ask - in what type of setup / grow conditions is the SOG the right choice, and would it be possible to get better results in my growroom with the SOG? (having in minde, that the grow takes around 2 months compared to 3 when having a months veg). I'm really confused what to do now - get bigger pots (Im very low on cash at to moment, as I've mentioned over 3 months of rent and electricity bills + other spendings have gone down the drain,not to mention that what I harvest now [if anything at all], won't even be enough for myself), or give the SOG another go?

Thanks for you time and "helping hand",
eric

 

[micro gro]

Looks like you might be flowering those seedlings too early; also wondering if the lights aren't too high.

 

[FreezerBoy]

Didn't realize there was soil under there. I don't think I'll be of much use. All my soil experience is backyard: drop your seed in the dirt, come back in 6 months.

As to general questions. Bigger pots mean bigger roots mean bigger buds. Hydroton makes some sense at the bottom, some sort of "sand" is good for drainage. Hydroton at the top? All that really does is reduce the amount of soil the roots have to grow in. Smaller roots mean smaller plants.

Your lamp seems a bit high. I'd shoot for 6-8 inches. These puppies are designed to sprout under the full strength of the sun and blow their nose on puny indoor lamps.



I'll see if I can't get Thunderkel to drop in. Here's what he's doing with soil in soda bottles under CFLs. With larger pots and multiple 400s, I should think donkey dicks is the smallest acceptable result.

 

[ericsson]

About the hydroton on top - I was kinda paranoid that the soil would dry out too quick in those 6"x6" pots, so I thought that a small top layer will slow down the evaporation. Again - if bigger pots = bigger roots = bigger plants, then why / when&where use the SOG? Back to the roots now - I've noticed, that when for example a pulled some 2-months+ plants (male or hermies) the roots stayed at the lower levels of the pot and didn't seem to spread twords the top. What could be the cause? About the light, I've heard about this "rule" that each 100W of HPS light = 10cm of hight, so I tried to keep mine about 40cm (400W lights) above the plant. Thanks for the chart, I understand that when having a 400W it's most effective from 6-8" as you wrote, but what about the temperature? Now, having the lights 40cm above the plants (wich is nearly 16" and according to the chart really sucks dick) I can come up to 30*C (86*F), so if I'd lower it to 8" wouldn't I fry them?

Couldn't find any user by the nick Thunderkel, but I'd be more then happy if someone would have the time to pop in here and help me out with some good advice! (especially after seeing what he did with a soda bottle and CFL's - whats there, about 10g's of stanky good shit?). He'll die laughing if he sees what I've come out with..

Be safe Y'all,
Eric

 

[FreezerBoy]

SOG theory is: better a million plants with 1 bud each than a single plant with a million buds. The smaller plants need 20 inches rather than 20 feet of head space and each bud is a top cola. Turnover time is much faster. Many set up perpetuals so they can harvest every week. The bad news is plant count. My SOG averaged 75 plants at a time between moms, clones, veg and flower. My ScrOG averages 2 plants. I'm not a med user, I've no papers or license. I'd much rather be caught with 2 than 75. The bad news with ScrOG is it takes longer. My Thunks took 17-23 weeks.

Try the back of the hand trick on your lamp. Palm down, place hand under the lamp, move up and down. When your hand becomes uncomfortable, that's too close. Where you can hold your hand under the lamp in comfort indefinitely is the proper height. If you find that's too far away, then we're getting into the area of cooling, ventilation or AC. A sealed reflector and dedicated duct would also help. Every 6 inches costs you half your strength. The plant knows there's better light above and will race to find it, leaving you with thin stretched out plants.

Thunder may be on vacation (I hope) He's posted this month but, not for a few weeks. Here are a couple of links as well as one for DrBudgreengenes where Thunder got his stuff. I suggested Thunder because there's something about DrBuds threads that seems to bring out the trolls and flamewars. I figured Thunder's to be a more pleasurable read.

The Dr.Bud Method by Thundurkel

Thundurkel's 252w Fluoro Frenzy

DrBud Takes CFL SOG to the Next Level 1176 Watts