Seed germination - advanced techniques?

[oldschoolfarmer]

I've been growing for several years, and normally have great success with germination. This go-round, the seeds I have are less than optimal. It was my first breeding experiment and I didn't let the seeds grow long enough (lesson learned).

Now I have been able to germinate these seeds before it just took some work and a whole lotta luck. I don't think I'll ever get 100% germ with them, but I'm hoping i can improve my current rate...

My germination technique is simple: seeds inside of a moist paper towel; inside of a plastic baggie, placed on a broadband router (for warmth).

This past week I tried germinating 25 seeds. So far, 8 of the seeds have cracked open. I put all 8 into soil (blazeoneup's recipe minus the nutes). Only 2 of the 8 have popped through the soil ???

It's been almost 13 days since I started. Out of 25 seeds, 8 have cracked, 2 are actual seedling plants (about 3" tall) and 15 are still in the paper towel relatively unchanged.

Here are my questions:
Is there anything else you can do for difficult seeds?
How long would you let the seeds sit in the towel before throwing them out and trying to germ a new batch?
How warm should you keep the towel? (ie. 70F vs 110F)



So far I've tried soaking the seeds in water, and even tried snipping the tips off of a few. No dice.

Any other tips you can share about germination would be appreciated. I plan to start another batch of 25 seeds this week

 

[BigGreen]

I'll tell ya my trick I take a old sock fold it in half and then put the seeds in there Then fold it over again and then water it and let it sit out on a table you have to check it daily to make sure the sock dont dry out. They usually pop in a couple days.

 

[FreezerBoy]

Paper towels have no magic powers of germination. Whatever they'll do in paper, they'll do as well or better in soil, rockwool or pellets. Added bonus, they're planted, no handling of fragile roots required.

My suggestion would be scarification. Weakening the shell to simulate passing thru a bird's system or getting kicked around all winter. You can line a matchbox with sandpaper and shake seeds inside. Nick the edges with a knife. I use an Xacto blade to scrape the edges of the seed.

 

[oldschoolfarmer]

BigGreen - thanks for the tip! I'll try a few in a sock next go-round.

FreezerBoy - I appreciate the scarification suggestion, and will try it. Do you normally do this before placing into the seeding medium? Or do you only do this after seeds haven't popped for x days? I hear ya on planting directly into soil... my problem is it isn't warm enough. My house stays a constant 50F

Appreciate the help fellas. I have 25 more seeds ready to go and will be trying the scarification as well as sock ideas. Any other thoughts/suggestions are appreciated!

 

[FreezerBoy]

My house stays a constant 50F

EEK! 50º bad, very very bad.

The one batch I tried after the fact, I'm now convinced was DOA. Going 95%-100% with a variety of seeds and 0-16 with SensiSeeds SSH convinces me they were dead before they were shipped.

I'd give it a shot before loosing them. I've seen some seeds take more than a month to sprout so I'd put them aside before tossing them.

 

[oldschoolfarmer]

EEK! 50º bad, very very bad.

Yep. It's great for hydro (the HIDs heat up the grow room to 65-75 and the rez stays cool). Unfortunately for seeds, I have to use an external heat source (PS3 or linksys).

I'm thinking a seed germination tray may be in order - just to be able to keep the medium a consistent temperature. Thoughts?

 

[gtbuds2332]

i've always had around 100% germination using wet paper towels in a plastic bowl that has a lid to keep the humidity in, like those glad ones. Then i put them in a warm (i think the warmth is very important) dark place and like i said i have always had great success with that and if that wont work then i dont think your seeds will germ in anything

 

[Peanut Butter]

Paper towel, sandwich baggie, external hard drive.

Normally most crack and show signs of life within 48 hours, but I've had some bagseed that I thought were duds that were found in growing in the trash well over a week later. Seeds of value, I'll leave go on the hard drive for a week. Even after that, if they dont crack, I'll toss them in some soil and let go even longer.

 

[FreezerBoy]

.I'm thinking a seed germination tray may be in order - just to be able to keep the medium a consistent temperature. Thoughts?

Unless you're doing hundreds, I'd consider DIY.

I built a dome from a CD spindle case. Well vented at top and bottom (sides of the base have had holes filed to allow air under and into the case) it allows for retention of warmth and moisture without actually generating same. Temps are set by lamp proximity. Obviously, a 23 watt CFL needs to be closer than a 250 CMH. A dual temp thermometer with a remote sensor for "outside" temps allows you to determine actual temps. Personally, I remove them at the first sign of sprouts.



For soil, you can try ice cube trays. Once they're rootbound (which happens quickly at that size) they pop out like ice cubes.

How about that chicken or prepared meal from the grocery store? The one with a black plastic bottom and a clear plastic cover. Twin rubbermaid food containers. Twin glass brownie pans. You could place any of these on a glass table top and use a swing arm lamp underneath pointed up as a heat source.

Just look around your crib and you'll find lots of things that could serve you.

 

[dazednconfused]

A dual chamber incubator used for mycelium production works exceptionally well. You have the ability to alter the temperature to an optimum 85 F with an aquarium heater. Very humid inside the container as well. A layer of paper towels is added at the bottom of the inner container, dampened. Easily germinate 99%+ with 100s of seeds in a small, confined space. The appearance of this is somewhat discrete too.

The dual chamber consists of a large rubbermaid container that is filled with water. A smaller container is then placed inside the larger one, floating. The inner container must be large enough so it wont fall over, good idea to keep a lid on both containers also. Next an aquarium water heater is added, submersible heater is preferred. Finally fill your inner container with seeds, tune in the appropriate temperature and place the lids on.

good luck

 

[Tactical Farmer]

The tap root can VERY easily get rooting through wet paper towels / napkins & get damaged upon removal.

A method where no handling is involved is best.

 

[green_thumb...]

I drop em in a cup of tap water then stash it up in a dark cupboard checkin them every so often usually takes a day or two to see poppage.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Placed open side down on the top of a moist peat puck will give you as good a rate as any method. If you messed up and had the open side up, just turn the seed over when you see the tail trying to emerge from the top.

If you have a seed that won't open, you can use tweezers to crack the shell and then place it back in the medium. You can also take the shell all the way off (if you can manage such a task and have hands of a cock Dr.) and place the embryo just in the medium cot side up.

I've used the paper towels many times with great success, but I have also had failures that I attribute to either damaging fine roots during the move, or even chems in the paper.

 

[4c4oToSyntheSiS]

I never use the towel method anymore, chances of root rot and contamination are way to high. I often just use mini oasis cubes on a heat matt for a couple day's, ph the water with some rhizo and hygrozyme. I get a 100% germ rate hasn't failed me yet! the second i see a shoot i take it off the matt and place it in a dixie cup filled with coco and a lil mixture of root juice.

 

[brettweir]

Wow - some people here go through some serious steps to get a seed started! I used to do the paper towel method but now I just pop them snuggly into a moist Jiffy or Peat puck in a tray ontop of my DVD player, and within a week the cotylidons start popping out. From there I just wait until the roots start showing and place them into soil or coco, depending on which I'm using. All this talk about using ferts and special seedling "stimulators" is nonsense IMO.

If the seed doesn't start, I usually just scape it lightly with an x-acto knife and let it sit for a couple more days. If nothing happens, it's toast.

 

[Y-M-4-2-0]

Other- meaning 3 days works for me.

12 hour soak, then towels with no ink. into sandwich baggies. on top of fridge for slight heat. open towels once a day for 3 days until their is atleast 2 inch tail...gently pick up and bury around tail into soil leaving head to shed shell if it alraeady hasnt.

 

[penis]

I just soak in water with rhizo.

 

[oldschoolfarmer]

FreezerBoy - thanks for your tip! I tried several more seeds yesterday. I soaked them 12 hours in plain water, then scratched the sides of most of em. I actually used some pliers to pop about half of them. (experimenting always helps ) One other thing I did was simply placed the medium on the window sill. I think the ps3 was way too hot while turned on and possibly burnt my last batch. ps3 owners beware!

BigGreen - I tried the sock method as well, but so far no dice. I'll let them go a few days more just for kicks

End result: today I had 85% with tails!!!

Most of the others look promising given more time.

I appreciate everyone's suggestions and experience. Thanks!

 

[FreezerBoy]

One other thing I did was simply placed the medium on the window sill.

I wouldn't leave them there at night. Glass is a heat sync and gets cold with no sun. Cold substrate in germination can lead to fuzzy mold on the seed.

 

[Treetops]

Mornin OSF,
Just had to show my way I use now...Paper towel did alright in the past, but now its Rapid Rooters for me...I almost get 100% germ rate now...Image Reaper turned me on to this method...Thank you Reaper...Give it a shot...You will be amazed...

Peace,
Treetops