need to flush sunleaves just coir.. how much

[mdk ktm]

hey just switched over to ic from another forum and this site rocks.

Im going to be doing my first hydro run real soon, im running 1400 watts over a 4x4 ebb and flow set up. With the possibility of a second 2x2tray later. But my question is this coco coir stuff killed 30 seedlings last month. I tried flushing each 6 inch pot with atleast a gallon of water each i can get the ppm down to about 200 and thats it. I have RO water with a ppm of 34. My question is should i still try to use this crap and risk costing myself more money in seeds or what should i start my seeds in until they can handle about 250 ppm.

Once the plants are big enough to clone it shouldnt be a problem as once rooted 250ppm will be fine for clones. Also i am somewhat second guessing myself on the 6 inch pot size, i am used to soil growing and that leaves almost no root space. i want to veg plants for 3 weeks. Would 2 gallon grow bags or pots be more realistic.

oh and for any guys with R.O water the tank that i have is only like a 2 gallon tank. the system is in the basement and the faucet is one floor above, how do you achieve the possible 100 gpd and such that the systems say they can produce.

sorry for the long post i have been reading the forums for weeks and found tons of very useful info, but nothing could answer these questions thankyou

 

[buddin_904]

hey MDK......i have had experience with sunleaves bricks.....i am currently using them along the coir chip bricks in a 50/50......they work great for me, allowing plenty of air in the mix!......but to answer your question

this is exactly what i did with mine

threw about 8 bricks into my plugged up tub.....4 coir/ 4 chips
turned on the cold water ran it till they were almost submerged
then i began picking them apart and hydrating them as fast as possible.
once they were all broken apart and fully hydrated, i added some shit!
i think this is where you may have messed up.....because i believe if i hadn't pretreated by bricks i woudl have dead plants as well.

but basically, i threw in 1/2 a tsp FN bloom per brick so total i threw in 4 tsp's and then i also added 8 tsp of cal mag!

honestly i used only 100% tap to hydrate them, didnt check the ph nor ppm!!!!!
i new they would be in appropriate ranges except maybe ppm a little on the high side but the good news is this method works

i filled up 2 gal containers with my mix and popped rockwool clones right into the top....oh and also wasnt stupid enough to forget a myco. inocculant! i used a 1/4 tsp sprinkle of AN pirahna under each rockwool plug....within 1-2 days they were growing fine! you DO need to eventually get rid of the "coir juice" which is dark brown in color.....this is done by watering the plants with ample run off....it should be nute solution color within 1-2 weeks depending on water needs and the plants SHOULD DO FINE!

let me no what u guys think of my method......i had 100% success, not even 1 yellowed leaf

 

[buddin_904]

oh the reason i treated with FN bloom, is cuz i put the clones straight into 12/12

but for indica dom plants, a bloom solution would be good as well.....low nitrogen high PK should make the plant establish a better initial root system as compared to a high nitrogen setting right after the transplant.

 

[mdk ktm]

thankyou buddin that sounds like a good way to do it, i am not using the bales im using the stuff thats all ground up, but its probably the same stuff just ground finer. I will try putting the seedlings into rapid rooters to get them to a decent size then transplant when they will be able to handle it, i dont like starting from seed but i want to try some new strains and i dont know any growers in my area.

and just wondering what kind of set up are you using with the coco.

 

[buddin_904]

im pretty sure were using the same stuff.....coco coir.....but my set up is the 50/50 coir/chip mix in 2 gal pots, hand watered.....i have this thread a couple posts down
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=124447
check it out...peace!

 

[Bush Dr]

It sure sounds like the coco wasn't clean enough, if in doubt taste a drop of the run off, if it's salty it needs more rinsing

Important to put some mycco in as well

 

[onegreenday]

I just soaked a brick of Sunleaves Piece Coir in city water (120-PPM)
the soak sits at 750-PPM right now but I bet with a rinse and a re-soak
with city water they won't be too high. I'll edit later with results.

If it's not sterilized it should have trichoderma in it.

EDIT: up to 1400 PPM after 1 hour; drained & re-soak.
EDIT ; 2nd 1hr soak is at 620 ppm
EDIT: 3rd soak 320PPM

that's less than a slurry of wormcast which is around 700PPM

1- small piece coir brick fills a 2 gal smartpot right to the top.

 

[wickedpete66]

I use the sunleaves bricks at times. Once it is soaked and falls apart I then fill up 2gallon pots with it and flush it till the ec is around .25-.30. My tap water comes in at .11 so it usually takes around 4 gallons of water for every 2 gal pot. I have recently switch to biobizz bagged coco. Its double the price but a lot less work.

 

[onegreenday]

you save water too but I guess biobizz use the water instead.
1 thing about coco coir is it takes water to become usable
media; so it is no panacea for media.
Peat does not require water for process like coir
but takes 300 years to regrow.

if they recirculate the water & strip the salts at
the coir source it may be fairly benign.
Not sure if RHP requires that.

 

[whodi]

flush the hell out of it.

 

[mdk ktm]

damn forgot i even started this thread, since i posted i gave up on coco it killed every damn seed i had 10 b-52, 5 blue cheee, and the two freebies from attitude, i put the coir into the 6 inch pots and flushed it with RO water until i got the ppm down to around 125 or less. i germinated the seeds and put them in the coco thinking it would be fine, but no. they were green for about two days after sprouting, and instantly turned yellow and died. I gave up on my indoor garden for the moment because law troubles, but once i can start again i honestly dont know what to do. I have some beautiful ladies outdoor in the exact same coco and they are doing awesome. I would love to use this medium indoors if it just wouldnt kill my seedlings.

Next round i will probably start them out in dixie cups with soil until they are 8 inched tall or so and are strong enough to handle the 150 ppm, but they should be able to handle that easily. im just so confused on which hydro route to go theres so many choices.

 

[mdk ktm]

oh and im not using the bales or the chip stuff, im using the sunleaves just coir, which is already ground down extremely fine like sawdust or something i dont even know how to compare it. but i dont think i will get the same stuff when i can grow indoors again because on my trial runs it was getting all over the res and i could see it clogging the lines or the pump. I have been growing in soil for the last 4 years, and im gunna go hydro when i can start up. coco just appeals to me because it seems like it will buffer the nutrient mix so if i mess something up it wont be instant death.
thanks for any replies and advice

 

[dongle69]

I'm confused.
Sunleaves doesn't make a product called just coir.
Do you mean Sunshine Just Coir?

 

[Dhude]

Either way, having fresh seedlings in a 2 gal pot of finely ground coir, that is kept soaked...yeah that's going to be a problem.

Start with a mix of fines and fiber/chips. Flush the hell out of it, drain, then do a pretreat soak in 2ml/gal cal-mag. Take coco from the soak, squeeze all the water out that you can before putting the seedling or clone in. Feed as normal. Cal defs should self-resolve within a week or two as the cation matrix is rebalanced and stops sucking up Cal to replace the displaced potassium.

 

[whodi]

seedlings dont like it when coco is real wet/moist. After you flush the coco.. let it sit out in room temp with a fan for a couple of days to dry it up a bit (or jsut squeeze a lot of water out of it, like Dhdude said). And water seedlnigs every 2-3 days.. also, id start the seedlings in cups. If you dont wanna do this, then use rapid rooters, then transplant in coco.

 

[wickedpete66]

damn forgot i even started this thread, since i posted i gave up on coco it killed every damn seed i had 10 b-52, 5 blue cheee, and the two freebies from attitude, i put the coir into the 6 inch pots and flushed it with RO water until i got the ppm down to around 125 or less. i germinated the seeds and put them in the coco thinking it would be fine, but no. they were green for about two days after sprouting, and instantly turned yellow and died. I gave up on my indoor garden for the moment because law troubles, but once i can start again i honestly dont know what to do. I have some beautiful ladies outdoor in the exact same coco and they are doing awesome. I would love to use this medium indoors if it just wouldnt kill my seedlings.

Next round i will probably start them out in dixie cups with soil until they are 8 inched tall or so and are strong enough to handle the 150 ppm, but they should be able to handle that easily. im just so confused on which hydro route to go theres so many choices.

Dont give up on coco just yet. I still start my seedlings in Black Gold Seedling Soil with 50% earth worm castings. Once the seedlings have established a good root zone and have true leaves thats when i transplant to the 1 gal coco pots. I found that coco just holds too much water for seedlings.

 

[buddin_904]

damn forgot i even started this thread, since i posted i gave up on coco it killed every damn seed i had 10 b-52, 5 blue cheee, and the two freebies from attitude, i put the coir into the 6 inch pots and flushed it with RO water until i got the ppm down to around 125 or less. i germinated the seeds and put them in the coco thinking it would be fine, but no. they were green for about two days after sprouting, and instantly turned yellow and died. I gave up on my indoor garden for the moment because law troubles, but once i can start again i honestly dont know what to do. I have some beautiful ladies outdoor in the exact same coco and they are doing awesome. I would love to use this medium indoors if it just wouldnt kill my seedlings.

Next round i will probably start them out in dixie cups with soil until they are 8 inched tall or so and are strong enough to handle the 150 ppm, but they should be able to handle that easily. im just so confused on which hydro route to go theres so many choices.

dont give up just yet!!!
please!! i cant stress enough....a myco innoculant such as AN pirahna or myco madness or GH subculture or something! is SOOOOO important IMO for transplanting seedlings into coco. I seriously transplant in NON flushed sunleaves bricks, i just make sure to always add 2 tsp CaMg per brick and just a 1/4 tsp pirahna sprinkled under the plug! this will give you sucess....seriously noone had any input on this method but i assure you it works for fuck sake

 

[mdk ktm]

shit yeah i mean sunshine my bad idk why i thought it was sunleaves, must be another brand idk. and the weird part is i let the coco dry out alot before watering hoping to flush again and get a little more crap out if possible. ive tried a little bit of cal mag in the water hen watering the seedlings.

If i didnt have to shut down my indoor, i would just clone in rapid rooters and then throw them in the 1 or 2 gallon pots with coco in themm and they would do good. Of the four seedlings that survived in april they are doing awesome outdoors. they are doing tons better than plants in soil, in same size pots. Coco seems like it will be a great medium once i can get my indoor garden going. They can just pack the roots together in coco its really cool. I have decided when i can garden indoor that coco will be my medium i think i will either just use the black gold like wicked pete said until the seedlings have a good root system.

and buddin 904 i just throw them in dixie cups from seed, theyre would just be under cfl's for a couple weeks, if they would survive that long, and i hand water too since they lived long enough to make it to the big hps and the ebb and flow. im a hydro noob, but adding a myco would be adding it to my res right.

sorry im making this so complicated, it really sems like it shouldnt be.
And thanks everybody for the advice and tips, I honestly dont know why i wasted time on another forum, ic mag is where its at for sure.