Reversed Backcrossing:)

[Forest20]

You know to much ric

 

[englishrick]

im special but ill at the same time

 

[englishrick]

wait till i can do parrot fashion from samS new Biology Science links...trust me forest,,,im gona correct this major fem fuk up thats been happening since sam droped the whole selfing thing


samS Biology Science Links
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=49499

imo,,,this is the best thread to ever hit icmag,,,,it holds the truth to the point of sams inteligence

 

[englishrick]

a legacy of the best will live on in me...

 

[Rockster]

F5 is the fifth generation of progeny. depending on the genotype and phenotype of the parents you which to do a test cross with will help you determine how traits are being inherited and how they are expressed (dominant & recessive). going to the 5th generation gives you a better idea on how far traits get passed and when they become unexpressed. it is hard to tell which character states are dominant and recessive from doing one F1 cross because there are traits that may not get expressed in that generation. at F5, a seedline is considered IBL because there is a point it is not necessary to stabilize character states. after F5, you lose vigor...

same idea as a BX. there is only so many times you can BX to have stabilized character states. after such a point, there is redundancy.

S1's are also technically F1's, but in canna-terms it is appropriate. weed is monecious meaning that it has male/female parts on separate plants but as a form of survival, they will grow male/female parts on opposite sex plants and become dioecious having both parts on same plant. the gene pool tends to shrink down, but you can have genetic recombination.

"F5 is the fifth generation of progeny"

And after you typing that(in response to my post?)you try to tell me F5 is the fifth generation of progeny,well,do you think I was oxygen deprived in the foetus or something?

And hey,lets have some fun,S1's most positively are NOT automatically F1's,that depends on their original condition,homo or heterogyous.

A selfed truebreeding landrace will express much like the P1 mother but a hybrid/heterozygous condition(classic example:The Cheese)will NOT!


But please,maybe we are getting our terminology mixed up so could you please define'F5'........by telling me about the F1-F4,that'll clue me in on wotcha onnabout?

 

[englishrick]

S1 is f1 to biology buffs

f1 = Selfed. 1gen removed.......

F1 = true outcross

or so i think

 

[GMT]

by jove I think he's got it! lol.

 

[Rockster]

No he hasn't got it,good lord(forget the good lord bit,Catholic fucking conditioning) don't confuse the feller!

Since when did S1's automatically and by default produce F1's whaaaaaaaaaaa?

 

[GMT]

Hi Rockstar, look closer, he said f1 not F1

 

[englishrick]

a-ba-ra-ca-da-ba-ra

 

[lc00p4]

rick i think you've got the idea now as far as F1's and f1's. S1 is a canna-term. most floral seeds produced are on dioecious plants with male and female parts and that is considered selfed seeds, but it is F1. S1 is a helpful designation in order to show how one achieved the "f1" first generation progeny.

progeny is offspring by the way.

weed selfs itself for survival to try to make beans and save time "search time" (Bio term) finding a mate by making opposite sex parts on a monecious species. that is why frogs change sex in order to save on "search time" finding a mate. heterosity so speak...

I AM A BIOLOGY BUFF... working on my degree and knowing the inner workings of things. genetics is a really hot topic and i want to make sure there is no BS'in.

electron transport chain yada yada yada... weed is C3 photosynthesizer if you didn't know either.

trust me rick this is stuff you can't learn on the boards, but in the books. reading is one thing, but understanding is another.

 

[GreenintheThumb]

S1 is not a canna term...

"weed selfs itself for survival to try to make beans and save time "search time" (Bio term) finding a mate by making opposite sex parts on a monecious species." I think you're wrong here. Aren't there hermie populations because of man? Weren't the hermie populations in locations where growers were trying to grow sensimilla by killing the males but kept the seeds they found in the crop for next season? Essentially selecting for intersex traits?

What are you guys claiming as the difference between f1 and F1 seeds? I've never heard about this either...

 

[Rockster]

Hi Rockstar, look closer, he said f1 not F1

Oh do please enlighten me in my upper/lower case ignorance?

Scuse my not taking this seriously but can you blame me?

And spell me name rite pleeze?

 

[GMT]

hmmm, not sure what you aren't taking seriously, or why, but I'll certainly excuse you lol.
basically, f denotes a generation drived from a selfed individual, whereas F is a cross between 2 plants. the number refers to the number of generations since the parent stock was used. Since f refers to a selfed generation, then if you were to say f2, then that would indicate that the clone was selfed and one of those f1 plants was also selfed.
Sorry about the name rockster. I guess we both need to look a little closer at times.

 

[endlesssummer]

hmmm, not sure what you aren't taking seriously, or why, but I'll certainly excuse you lol.
basically, f denotes a generation drived from a selfed individual, whereas F is a cross between 2 plants. the number refers to the number of generations since the parent stock was used. Since f refers to a selfed generation, then if you were to say f2, then that would indicate that the clone was selfed and one of those f1 plants was also selfed.
Sorry about the name rockster. I guess we both need to look a little closer at times.

S1 or F1 ? I don't see where this definition comes from , I don't think capitalizing the f really makes a difference.

 

[GreenintheThumb]

Why are you making up your own terminology? Just use what every other breeder on the planet uses. You are not a special snowflake.

P1 x P2 = F1

F1 x F1 = F2

S1 means to self an individual
S2 means you selfed an individual in the S1 population

KIScyS

 

[lc00p4]

S1 is too a canna term in majority of applications. going hermie is a natural trait that can be induced by man. it's not like man caused weed to go hermie, it's in the damn genes. like i said before it's SURVIVAL... it thinks its fucked and tries to make beans in any way it can. natural plants can go hermie in the wild if there are no males around, lots of the landraces are so interbred that they are stable for certain character states, but lack a diverse gene pool. that is the #1 disadvantage to going hermie is that the gene pool isn't as diverse because it is only giving itself copies of its own genes during chromosome replication.

when you grow IBL seeds, you get super stable, less-diverse plants... that is the goal right?

correct me if i'm wrong here.

you don't think environmental stress can make a plant hermie, even in the wild? i can prove you wrong very easily... it happens all the time. hermies are not from man, it's genetic. certain factors can stress and if those factors are controlled, then sometimes there are no problems... catch my drift with Fems?

you won't believe how interbreeding and selfing in landrace populations lower genetic diversity, therefore showing upmost stablization in certain character states. that is why when you outcross, certain genes may get expressed in the hybrid progeny because of different allele combinations.

does anyone know how many chromosomes weed has? potatoes have 48 and fruit flies have 8.

 

[GreenintheThumb]

Go google S1 plant breeding and tell me it's only a term used by cannabis breeders. Get real man.

"it thinks its fucked and tries to make beans in any way it can."

not really how it works. It is simply carrying the genes that code for intersex traits. All sorts of environmental cues will cause these phenotypes to express themselves.

"going hermie is a natural trait that can be induced by man"

So what traits are not natural? And how does man induce these hermies? All sorts of environmental cues can set them off.
In areas where people were growing cannabis for sensi production man was killing all the males but still growing the seeds in his crop. Do this for hundreds of years and big surprise suddenly there's populations with huge hermie problems. The smarter growers in these areas used to purchase seeds from different cultivators who kept males around and simply sold seeds (as opposed to growing sensi) made from true males and females for the sensi farmers. Cannabis is a dioecious species. Sure there's hermies around now but that's because people were selecting for it without even knowing it. If you were to just let the population be uncultivated hermies aren't more adept at survival than other plants. Remember this is a wind pollinated species.

"lots of the landraces are so interbred that they are stable for certain character states, but lack a diverse gene pool."

Ummm, wrong again. Landraces are stable for traits because they are adapted to the traits favored in their land or origin. In fact, landraces have a diverse gene pool. Their genotypes and phenotypes displayed can be very diverse. Think about it, they're grown in fields where hundreds or thousands of individuals cross pollinate each other. Your not ganna find IBLs in landraces.

diploid cannabis has 20 chromosomes. 10 sets of 2

 

[lc00p4]

i didn't say S1 was just a canna term but used a lot in canna applications.

well in a sense, yes it is becuz it knows its fucked. envr. cues tell it that it is under stress. high stress leads to eventual death, ie that is why it herms.

man induces hermies by like said, envr. cues and other non-natural methods. never said there were unnatural traits either.

dude landraces are not highly diverse. where is the new gene pool? ummm no where. go to kush region and get a bunch of the same type of strain and grow it out. you will have lots of plants that look the exact same FOR A REASON. there is hermie interbreeding all the time fool in landraces. what you are saying is that landraces don't herm? that is where the traits come from too. you breed with interbred plants and those traits can get expressed. the most elusive is the SD... see what i mean?

herms didn't come from farmers and there is no proof of that.


i'm just gonna stop here...

good luck rick and i hope you graduate noobasaurus perplex school.

 

[englishrick]

Go google S1 plant breeding and tell me it's only a term used by cannabis breeders. Get real man.

i think CharlesX said he helped the S1 term become a normal term used in biology.....

"it thinks its fucked and tries to make beans in any way it can."

not really how it works. It is simply carrying the genes that code for intersex traits. All sorts of environmental cues will cause these phenotypes to express themselves.

i actualy agree with both of you,,,,,,everything we see is an expreshion of DNA in relation to its enviroment,,,,the reason for the expression will be the enviroment,,,,,,given time "evoloution" will change the "coding" that creates the expreshion ,,,,forming DNA sequencing is where it gets crazy ,,,evoloution respects enviroment it has to...,,,,,,,.evoloution eh,who needs it?

"going hermie is a natural trait that can be induced by man"

So what traits are not natural? And how does man induce these hermies? All sorts of environmental cues can set them off.
In areas where people were growing cannabis for sensi production man was killing all the males but still growing the seeds in his crop. Do this for hundreds of years and big surprise suddenly there's populations with huge hermie problems. The smarter growers in these areas used to purchase seeds from different cultivators who kept males around and simply sold seeds (as opposed to growing sensi) made from true males and females for the sensi farmers. Cannabis is a dioecious species. Sure there's hermies around now but that's because people were selecting for it without even knowing it. If you were to just let the population be uncultivated hermies aren't more adept at survival than other plants. Remember this is a wind pollinated species.

imo,,,its all about enviroment,,,,,,the expreshion is our choice,our reward and our punishment

"lots of the landraces are so interbred that they are stable for certain character states, but lack a diverse gene pool."

Ummm, wrong again. Landraces are stable for traits because they are adapted to the traits favored in their land or origin. In fact, landraces have a diverse gene pool. Their genotypes and phenotypes displayed can be very diverse. Think about it, they're grown in fields where hundreds or thousands of individuals cross pollinate each other. Your not ganna find IBLs in landraces.

imo,,,,,,,landrace aint allways the same "all over the world",,,,,some can be mainly selected by man an he imposes enviroment,,,,some can be selected by nature,,,,

anything "landrace" and selected by nature is "landrace bio-dynamic cannabis",,,imo,,,,,anythink selected by man comes under a different bracket ie,,NOT bio-dynamic cannabis

so many spots in the world,,,,an cannabis has adapted to all of them,,,,,it will inbreed and adapt to its localization,,,,,the way it has adapted it part of its evoloution,,,,,

its very hard to generalize evoloution

preservation is a matter of opinion.......