The Compost Tumbler thread

[JackTheGrower]

I made mine with a 44 gal drum (had food grade cooking oil in it from a bakery) , set the height for my wheelbarrow to fit under it, welded the stand, fabricated a door with hinges and lock,, then an agitator for inside the drum. It cost next to nothing to knock up, only had to buy some rollers,, I already had the scrap tubing.

But after all that I hardly use it, I enjoy my piles too much.

Got a photo Jack asks with beggars hat in hand.

 

[JackTheGrower]

Doesn't look as if there will be any homemade photos so let me do the next best thing.

In the most simplest form a compost tumbler is composting in some form of container and turning it some way like with your hands or with a shovel.


This thread provides more info on this.
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=104473


Myself I built a grow room that is a 4'x4'x3' box of soil under 1500 watts of HPS and MH lights that I "fire up" and also feedl in the cold compost mode.

Again if you have a tumbler story , photo or recipe feel free to post it here.


Jack

 

[HighonPottery]

here's my homemade tumbler. works OK i guess. i don't use it that often as i'm lazy. does come in handy for mixing up a batch of soil. i think i spent like $10 on it and about an hour of my time. a few upgrades i would make to this design is have a solid piece of metal bar run through the "hinge" instead of a broomstick, i would add wheels to the bottom so I can move it around the yard, and I would have painted it black before jumping the gun and throwing it together - i guess it's not too late for that. my other compost pile consists of 3 wood pallets screwed together to make a 3-sided box. i think i might add another pallet in the middle to have two piles as it is hard to keep the pile tall enough with the little yard waste i have. also might add some chicken wire to the pallets to keep some of the compost from falling through the slats.

anyways, here's the tumbler you get the idea:

 

[jaykush]

i turned my tumbler into a soil mixer, much better use that way i think. a lot less work on my part.

nice one HP

 

[JackTheGrower]

Right On HOP

That is a nice unit if I say so myself.


Merry Christmas indeed.

 

[JackTheGrower]

March 2009 update

March 2009 update

Hey everyone!

Spring is near or here for some and I have an update for the compost tumbler thread.

This last year I learned more about carbon in the soil and decided to be careful about burning wood in a small wood stove i made.
Careful not to add things that might introduce a chemical agent to the char.

Once I collected my char I washed it and let it dry.

Then using my 1/4 inch sifter I ground the char through along with the compost I have been working on over about a year.

With the tumbler I have been adding food scraps, coffee grounds and yard waste as well as using up older organic products like a gallon of fish emulsion, azomite, bone meal, hoof and horn meal, alfalfa pellets, wood shavings and other stuff that I would rather have fresh.
I even am trying a new cat litter called swheat http://swheatscoop.com/

I started a year ago with oak leaves gathered from the foot hills. A big plastic bag of them.

I have fired this mix up three time in the year it's been collecting.

I add the compost to the screen along with the char wood and grind it through with a rock.

The finished product looks great and i will be testing the effects on a Jalapeno pepper that wintered and looks like it is still alive this spring. Those were some tasty peppers last year.

I will see if there is an effect
More photos next post.

 

[JackTheGrower]

Well that's the basics of nearly a years worth of compost tumbler collections.

I will see how the char works out.

Jack.

 

[otherwhitemeat]

Hi there. I am joining the club! Got my compost tumbler at Costco in the US for about $90, which is great considering it retails for $200.
http://www.buylifetime.com/Products/BLT/PID-60021.aspx

My wife convinced me to buy it. Apparently, she's sick of looking at perlite riddled dirt being cleverly disposed of on our property. Apparently my own attempts to reproduce that scene from the Great Escape with socks full of dirt didn't pan out either. Looking to save myself a few bucks on dirt in the long haul too. But really, it just seems very wasteful NOT to reuse these bags of FFOF soil I am spending a ton of money on. Last month, did some trims and burned some leaves in my fireplace; FAWKING inversion layer and still air and you pretty much KNEW who grew on my block. That combined with my 'dirt antics' are leading me to try new things for security and to stop paying the hydro guy for overpriced dirt.

I'll find my answers, but was hoping anyone could answer a few compost newbie questions.

1) I'm assuming if I live in a place that has a 'true winter' composting pretty much stops? Can you store compost over the winter?
2) I see that it can take 4-12 weeks, depending on base materials. How do you know when it's 'done'?
3) I have the luxury of a few big oaks on my property. Heard ground oak leaves are fast? I guess there are ways of speeding up the process a bit with innoculants?
4) To add compost back into spent soil, I am just guessing here but 25% compost/75% spent soil?

Really trying to go mostly organic; soil grows thus far have been and want to keep it this way. I am just wondering if my recylced dirt will be any better/worse than the FFOF?

 

[jaykush]

1) I'm assuming if I live in a place that has a 'true winter' composting pretty much stops? Can you store compost over the winter?

true winter? meaning how cold. my compost bins got snowed on and rained on all winter, i still harvested over 100 gallons of compost in 3 months.

2) I see that it can take 4-12 weeks, depending on base materials. How do you know when it's 'done'?

easy, when it looks like dirt, you wont be able to tell what is what anymore. tumblers can actually produce compsot even quicker than 4-12 weeks, but thats mainly in the summer when temps are a bit higher. if you do your compost in batches you should be able to finish one load a month at least.

I have the luxury of a few big oaks on my property. Heard ground oak leaves are fast? I guess there are ways of speeding up the process a bit with innoculants?

old oak leaves would be a carbon source, mix the oak leaves with greens and food scraps ( prefferably dried and ground up)

4) To add compost back into spent soil, I am just guessing here but 25% compost/75% spent soil?

at first you can mix 25% but if you re use your soil over time, it will eventually have a lot more compost/organic matter in it. which is more like real soil than soilless. then add amendments at the same time.

 

[JackTheGrower]

Hi there. I am joining the club! Got my compost tumbler at Costco in the US for about $90, which is great considering it retails for $200.
http://www.buylifetime.com/Products/BLT/PID-60021.aspx

Nice and at that price really Nice. I even like the compost-er woman.

My wife convinced me to buy it. Apparently, she's sick of looking at perlite riddled dirt being cleverly disposed of on our property. Apparently my own attempts to reproduce that scene from the Great Escape with socks full of dirt didn't pan out either.

I believe in reuse.. That's what Nature does.. The soil food web and all.
Hug your wife for allowing the money to be spent and congratulations on the bargain to the both of you.

Looking to save myself a few bucks on dirt in the long haul too. But really, it just seems very wasteful NOT to reuse these bags of FFOF soil I am spending a ton of money on. Last month, did some trims and burned some leaves in my fireplace; FAWKING inversion layer and still air and you pretty much KNEW who grew on my block. That combined with my 'dirt antics' are leading me to try new things for security and to stop paying the hydro guy for overpriced dirt.

<Grin> I've had the same soil in my 4x4 for 8 years. I jsut fire it up now and again to process the roots and add new materials.
Oh I did that once with roots. It was a wonderful smell that wafted over a mile down the road.

I'll find my answers, but was hoping anyone could answer a few compost newbie questions.

1) I'm assuming if I live in a place that has a 'true winter' composting pretty much stops? Can you store compost over the winter?
2) I see that it can take 4-12 weeks, depending on base materials. How do you know when it's 'done'?
3) I have the luxury of a few big oaks on my property. Heard ground oak leaves are fast? I guess there are ways of speeding up the process a bit with innoculants?
4) To add compost back into spent soil, I am just guessing here but 25% compost/75% spent soil?

Really trying to go mostly organic; soil grows thus far have been and want to keep it this way. I am just wondering if my recycled dirt will be any better/worse than the FFOF?

Well there are two concepts to basic composting Active and Passive..
Oh and by the way this site has some great threads already so have a look.

I like to quote Wikipedia ( and support Wikipedia ) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composting

Active in a nutshell is when the mix of Greens ( nitrogenous ) and browns ( carbonaceous ) materials are mixed in a ratio that provides an environment suited to rapid development of large populations of micro-organisms.
http://www.compostinfo.com/tutorial/GreensAndBrowns.htm

Passive http://earth911.com/garden/composting/passive-composting/ is a slower process not requiring the C to N ratios that active systems do.

The good news is we can mix both styles with a tumbler.

I have taken old soil and added C & N and a new handful om micro-organism rich soil and it heats up.
Once that has expired I can use it or add more materials..

I have a handy place for veggie scraps and coffee grounds and green weeds i pull from the yard. The collect over time and are in a passive state then add say some fish emulsion and wood shavings and it's active again.

Will the dirt be good or bad? Well excess chemicals could be a problem. I'd say it takes common sense and I use natural materials rather then comercial products for that reason.
Too much lime or sulfur, Epsom salts or other materials and you have some possible issues perhaps. However, study is helpful and the threads are full of it.

Have a read. If there is any question i can answer I'll try. Jay is on top of the stack as to what's what on this site and there are others with a lot of experience as well.

Oh lastly if it's really cold find a sheltered place to put the tumbler.. Really cold weather could slow an active pile but it only slows it.

One last thing Azomite seems to really make a difference in my compost batches. That's minerals.

Oh and welcome.

Jack

 

[otherwhitemeat]

Also, does anyone one know what the 'blow hole plugs' are used for? My tumbler has six of them, little silicone stoppers. They plug up air channels on the inside of the drum. I would assume that's to aerate the pile, but don't they get all full of crap? Am I supposed to take the out at some step or leave them in? Of course, the manual says nothing about them and I didn't find anything online about them.

true winter? meaning how cold. my compost bins got snowed on and rained on all winter, i still harvested over 100 gallons of compost in 3 months.

Jay, thanks for the detail. This is exactly the level I am at right now. When i say cold, think more like Boston than Alaska, yanno? Good to know that these little guys don't go dormant.

I was just wondering about the 'batches' If I do a batch every 30 days or so, I was wondering how to keep kitchen scraps from putrefying between batches. I was going to make a 30G rubbermade tub for kitchen scraps, ash, and stuff as a 'starter'.

Hug your wife for allowing the money to be spent and congratulations on the bargain to the both of you.
...
Well there are two concepts to basic composting Active and Passive..
Oh and by the way this site has some great threads already so have a look.
...
I have taken old soil and added C & N and a new handful om micro-organism rich soil and it heats up.
Once that has expired I can use it or add more materials..
....
I have a handy place for veggie scraps and coffee grounds and green weeds i pull from the yard. The collect over time and are in a passive state then add say some fish emulsion and wood shavings and it's active again.
...
Jack

Jack, she's a special lady lemme tell you. When she started getting a taste of my homegrown organic bud vs. the chemmy tasting hydrobeaasters that we normally get she wanted me to EXPAND the whole op. We're self sufficient thanks to me, if it were up to her we'd be farmers.

So it seems like you answered my question above, the kitchen scraps question....(active/passive) It seems like I was on the right track. This is great info, I REALLY appreciate you taking the time to post it here.

Thanks to everyone. I'll try to post some updates when I get moving. Once it stops raining I am going to mow up some grass clippings with last seasons oak leaves and get started!

 

[jaykush]

I was just wondering about the 'batches' If I do a batch every 30 days or so, I was wondering how to keep kitchen scraps from putrefying between batches. I was going to make a 30G rubbermade tub for kitchen scraps, ash, and stuff as a 'starter'.

too be honest, kitchen scraps are really good for worm composting( and you can do it in a rubbermaid). it takes very little space, and the end compost (castings) you get from them are some of the best stuff you can give to your plants/garden hands down. check the worming 101 sticky. with a large enough worm population they will eat your scraps daily. 1 lb of worms can be 5 in no time, and they eat there own weight in scraps daily. then i would stick with garden/landscape scraps for the tumblers.

 

[JackTheGrower]

Also, does anyone one know what the 'blow hole plugs' are used for? My tumbler has six of them, little silicone stoppers. They plug up air channels on the inside of the drum. I would assume that's to aerate the pile, but don't they get all full of crap? Am I supposed to take the out at some step or leave them in? Of course, the manual says nothing about them and I didn't find anything online about them.

I like that.. The one complaint i had about my unit is lack of venting but then I realized that the liquid catch was part of the design and that the design was purposeful for that.
I learned to turn it at least twice a day when it was "too wet" and leave the door/lid open.

So that is how it was meant to operate NP now that I understand.

You on the other hand need a safe place to store your plugs.. Maybe a heavy duty zip lock attached to the unit so you don't loose them.

So you have a bit different machine then I .. It's fine. It isn't better or worse just different.

You may well see the water collecting on the inside and making the batch too wet..

Too wet = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaerobic_organism micro-organisms and the sewer smell. Bad.

Thus mastering venting is on your list.
it will be a trade off of how often you need to bother adding water and how many plugs to pull...

You will do fine.

Maybe wire a tool to poke the clogs with to your unit.

The goal is a Earthy smell of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerobic_organism ( the good guys ) Aerobic micro-organisms.

I'm not one to sniff my mix daily but after a while i learned what to do based on the wafting odors.
You will too.

It's just experience. It's also fun to learn.

I would be happy to be a tumbler friend to you. I need friends LOL

I was just wondering about the 'batches' If I do a batch every 30 days or so, I was wondering how to keep kitchen scraps from putrefying between batches. I was going to make a 30G rubbermade tub for kitchen scraps, ash, and stuff as a 'starter'.


Jack, she's a special lady lemme tell you. When she started getting a taste of my homegrown organic bud vs. the chemmy tasting hydrobeaasters that we normally get she wanted me to EXPAND the whole op. We're self sufficient thanks to me, if it were up to her we'd be farmers.

So it seems like you answered my question above, the kitchen scraps question....(active/passive) It seems like I was on the right track. This is great info, I REALLY appreciate you taking the time to post it here.

Thanks to everyone. I'll try to post some updates when I get moving. Once it stops raining I am going to mow up some grass clippings with last seasons oak leaves and get started!

Well each of us has a different style of gardening. I don't see why you can't have a passive pile of "ready to go" stuff.

Maybe a trash can that is vented but secure from animals.
A place to dump veggie stuff and coffee grounds and whatnot and remember no meat fat or oils.


Then when ready add it to the next batch.. Doesn't matter if it dried up.
Just let the air in to the storage so the Bad micro-organisms don't take over.

I wonder if you have a compost thermometer? While not needed it is a tool that helps us learn about the state of biological activity.
And it's a cool compost toy. I use it.

I often keep tabs on my mix in the summer so it doesn't exceed safe limits.

Mostly tho I watch my grow box when I fire that up recycling roots and processing new materials..

I learn all the time about the soil and it's soil food web.
http://groworganic.com/item_TM605_Reotemp_Compost_Thermometer_20.html

Oak leaves are more fungus food than A brown IMO.. Leaves in general fall under Leaf Mold FYI...
http://www.organicgardening.com/feature/0,7518,s-3-79-1273,00.html

While yes oak leaves and leaves in general will decompose it's a bit more long term. That's why i chose them for a year long active/passive challenge as i have never used them in a compost mix before.
They will enrich the soil food web in my grow box over a long period of time.

The kind of materials you use is up to you. It's possible to use premium materials and get premium results but mostly compost is compost.

Oh watch your ash... You should be aware of the PH issues with some materials like ash..
Another is Pine needles. Maybe research a bit.

Over all it is my belief that nature works out the PH issues unless we over do something..

Blessings to you both and again I'm pleased to be helpful.


Jack

 

[otherwhitemeat]

I like that.. The one complaint i had about my unit is lack of venting but then I realized that the liquid catch was part of the design and that the design was purposeful for that.
I learned to turn it at least twice a day when it was "too wet" and leave the door/lid open.Jack

Soooo. I called the number on the enclosed lit pack, the 'blow hole plugs' are a legacy of the blow molding process. These holes are left over after the forming of my units side panels. These plugs, really just plug the holes so crap doesn't get in there. The unit has a central 'vent' which is really just one inch PVC with cross drilled holes, it appears that it's purpose is to aerate the middle of the pile to keep it from going anearobic. The interior surfaces of the drum are lined with channels, to ensure that the pile gets oxygen throughout.

My unit is more or less a cylinder, laying on it's side, it's contructed of three main panels and two 'ends'. Where each panel joins, there is a small gap to let out water. I created my first batch yesterday and had it slightly overwatered, about 10-20 rotations and all the excess water seems to have leaked out giving me the 'wrung sponge' consistency.

I have a nice digital remote kitchen thermometer and will dip the probe in in a few days and see if the party has started yet. My thought is that I can add more stuff. I looked in there today and the pile is barely touching the breather tube, it's obvious that the design is to handle much more capacity. (manual says 75 lbs) My neighbors are probably wondering why I am mowing my lawn to look like a putting green when the grass in normally a foot HIGH....haha, what they must think of me.

 

[JackTheGrower]

Soooo. I called the number on the enclosed lit pack, the 'blow hole plugs' are a legacy of the blow molding process. These holes are left over after the forming of my units side panels. These plugs, really just plug the holes so crap doesn't get in there. The unit has a central 'vent' which is really just one inch PVC with cross drilled holes, it appears that it's purpose is to aerate the middle of the pile to keep it from going anearobic. The interior surfaces of the drum are lined with channels, to ensure that the pile gets oxygen throughout.

My unit is more or less a cylinder, laying on it's side, it's constructed of three main panels and two 'ends'. Where each panel joins, there is a small gap to let out water. I created my first batch yesterday and had it slightly overwatered, about 10-20 rotations and all the excess water seems to have leaked out giving me the 'wrung sponge' consistency.

I have a nice digital remote kitchen thermometer and will dip the probe in in a few days and see if the party has started yet. My thought is that I can add more stuff. I looked in there today and the pile is barely touching the breather tube, it's obvious that the design is to handle much more capacity. (manual says 75 lbs) My neighbors are probably wondering why I am mowing my lawn to look like a putting green when the grass in normally a foot HIGH....haha, what they must think of me.

Cool.. I can go find my thermometer and tell you the temperature ranges if you like.
That's what I like about the commercial ones; they have color scales to make it easy to see where a pile is at.
that helps me turn piles sometimes.. if the core is over heating so to speak.

Well Keep posting. Looks great!

jack

 

[otherwhitemeat]

Wake up thread!

So I've been running my tumbler for about the past 8 weeks and I think I did something wrong. Loaded it with two parts fresh lawn clipping and two parts brown leaves, also added in about 1 part leaf trim, kitchen waste (fruits, veggies, old flowers, coffee grounds, etc)

Pretty much rotated and watered once a week. It started fine and reached about 105 F at night in the first week and then slowed down. I tried kickstarting it again with some wet scraps from the kitchen and it hit 105 again, then died out.

I went to dump it and start over and realized what may have happened. All of the grass and wet stuff combined into hundreds of little 'turd balls' Kinda look like meatballs, but the center of each 'ball' went anearobic and was still green inside and smelled like horse poop. I guess I started tumbling too early...

I guess that next time, I may try letting the grass chill out for a day or two to lose some moisture? Or perhaps my ratios weren't right?

I dumped thw whole mess into a new planting bed and have been turning the soil, it seems like it's now finished up nicely.

 

[JackTheGrower]

The clumping is a natural process. http://www.soilhealth.see.uwa.edu.au/processes/aggregation

If you want to you can construct some sift screens. I have 1/2 inch and 1/4 inch.

I place my compost over it and grind it through with a rock.

Any stuff that doesn't get finished goes back in the bin..

I've learned to stick my hands in there and mix things up when I first mix.. Grass clippings are notorious for clumping as they are (green or nitrogenous ) and also ( brown carbon ) as they dry out.

I don't think I have a picture online of my screens but I will check.



Nope just the finished grind from a batch I made.. The metal frame is the "table" I place my wood framed sifters on.

The sifter is an old garden tool.. Helps remove rocks and stuff from soil. I also found a Australian "Crown" once while sifting a garden row.


I was wondering about you a few days ago.. Glad to see you are still around.

Jack

 

[jaykush]

after you sift the compost. make sure to let it sit and "cure" for at least a few weeks, a month is better for BEST results. you can use it but the ph might be a little off from the decomposition process that might still be going on. "cured" compost is much safer to use for just about anything.

 

[otherwhitemeat]

Jay and Jack

Thanks for the replies.

Good to know I didn't do something wrong. I am going to build myself a sifter out of hardware cloth and 2x4's to screen out the next batch and reuse the turd balls.

Yanno, I was quite surprised how much 'settling' there was after the first few weeks. I think I need much more biomass for the next batch. I think that it never really reached critical temperature and kind of just kept shutting down.

Initially, I was going to use the compost to recycle my FFOF from the grow, but decided to use this batch for the outdoors.

I tilled a plot to plant Brussels Sprouts (yes, I love sprouts), 3 varieties of Tomatoes, Lettuce, Oregano, Cilantro, and Basil. I turned the soil and then added my compost, complete with big turd balls. It was dry here for about 4 days and I went back through the plot with my hands, the turd balls seemed to dry out and had mostly broken apart. They are no longer green inside, but kind of dried out. It rained for the past 48 hours and I went to turn my plot again this morning. It looks very good, the soil is very dark and smells nice, no funky odor at all.

In about another 1-2 weeks, my seedlings will be ready to plant--that will be the litmus test for my first compost adventure.


Thanks again for the input!

 

[habeeb]

1) I'm assuming if I live in a place that has a 'true winter' composting pretty much stops? Can you store compost over the winter?

there are alot of people who believe in cold composting. Viktor Schauberger thought "cold composting" to be far superior then "hot composting". check some of his info, if you read one get living energies by Callum Coats

I believe bio-dynamic compost is made through winter?? I assume not many use the methods of bio-dynamic anymore though as the ingredients / methods borderlines "ritualistic" ..

sometimes we must think out side the box to advance further..