Piss and organics

[TheCheeseMan]

i love organic gardening

 

[CannaExists]

This thread is bomb. I didn't expect it to explode into this. It seems jaykush came through with the answer I needed. Ammonia poses no threat. I'll continue to collect piss in wine jugs.

 

[maryjohn]

so far the only argument against was a straw man meant to stir peoples' emotions (the pissing in the front yeard arguments), and an objection over no peer reviewed studies on this millennia-old practice.

One is a fallacy, the other a red herring. When something has been done for thousands of years, safely and effectively, we don't need peer reviewed studies to show it is safe. It's like peer reviewing watering with rainwater. we know it is safe and it works since before we had peers.

 

[215Z]

all your greywaters are mine

 

[Ganjagrower1]

i dont know about everyone else but i will spend the money for my nutes.

 

[maryjohn]

I think we are learning a lesson about this board's ability to discuss a serious topic when bodily functions are involved.

I've read lots of silly reasons why one should not use urine, but i have yet to read a serious one. Which is surprising, because human urine has its pros and cons. here's a partial list

pros:
plenty of NPK, and micro and trace
free
finished product not smelly
diluted urine does not burn plants

cons:
is distasteful to those who don't understand the life cycle
appeals too much to the immature sense of humor
raw product can be smelly
human diets are high in salt - so is their pee
any pharmaceuticals you take are also in your pee

While i have to disagree with all the posts against this practice so far, I must admit I no longer use human urine for fertilizer, because of concern over salts (especially in containers) and because i like brewing tea. but if you have no resources, and need to get something going, pee is a great guerilla way to fertilize. If you can keep a bucket next to you toilet with a bit of water in it, and dump your pee on the compost pile, you will be helping your local bodies of water.

 

[groady-ho]

actually, if you go to nirvana's website (haven't been there in years) it used to tell you how to use human urine and states it is widely used in europe by growers..

 

[Pimpslapped]

I do find it funny that so many people are against using urine (not that I use my own, my diet is horrid and my salt intake is absurd at times, so not ideal)... yet, I wonder how many of them have ferts that are derived from urea. Which is piss.

Several members here have used human urine as a fertilizer either directly or indirectly with good results, though it seems more often to be used in compost.

It's not like we're talking about opening up your tent and taking a whizz right on the plants. Although it may work, I would not reccomend that.

Maryjohn, don't forget the salt content of urine can be very high, depending on diet.

 

[maryjohn]

it's the third in my list of cons - salt. In my case that includes lithium salts at 1800 mg/day on top of whatever i eat, so it's going down the toilet. One idea I've had is to use salsola soda to pull the salt out of my soil.

another thing people don't realize - the N in cow manure comes from cow piss, no poo. Oh wait, which one is gross again?

 

[greenhead]

another thing people don't realize - the N in cow manure comes from cow piss, no poo. Oh wait, which one is gross again?

I think that people realize that.

What is bat guano? fucking bat shit
What is worm castings? fucking worm shit
What's in my last bag of MG soil that I bought? fucking chicken shit

To me it's just different when the same product is coming from a human, but to each his own. I wouldn't eat a human for dinner, though I heard that it tastes sort of like chicken.

 

[SlowCalaToker]

Groady-

What's the link to nirvana's website? I googled "nirvana" and got about a million hits on Cobain....

or additional data to put in the search. Either would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance!

 

[magiccannabus]

I don't know why I shouldn't think something that comes out of my wiener, and is sterile, is preferable to something that plopped out of the ass of some livestock. People use shit, piss, boiled bones, dried blood, shredded fish guts, and hair as fertilizers. Why again is my urine so horrible compared to these things?

 

[Elephant Man]

Can I use My Urine as a Fertilizer?

Sure you can. In fact Sweden has tested a full scale urine ‘recycling’ program. Among their findings they have discovered that urine is a complete fertilizer for farm use, lowers the environmental impact of wastewater, improves recirculation of the 3 main nutrients, and that the hygienic risks are negligible if handled properly. Nature has been making use of urine for centuries before humans had even mastered the art of agriculture. Animal wastes contain nutrients that plants needs, and in return they provide us with nutrients we need. It is a circle that has been broken only in recent years, but before you go using your pots as a urinal you will need to be aware of how to use your urine. DO NOT PEE DIRECTLY ON OR AROUND YOUR PLANTS. You will burn them. The following will detail everything that you need to know to be successful.

Use in Soil
Pure concentrated urine will burn your plants; it must first be diluted with water. Typically a ratio of 1 part urine to 10 parts water is effective. Some have gotten away with a slightly higher ratio on unusually hungry girls. It is recommended that you do not exceed 1:10, even though a nutrient burn with urine is rare, the smell can be unpleasant, and salts will build quickly, at higher concentrations. For younger plants start with a ratio of 1:20-1:30 and work your way up. As always do not fertilize germinating seedlings. Wait until the cotyledons (little round leaves) have fallen off before beginning any fertilizer regiment. Also it is not needed every water, every other or every third is sufficient. Let your plant do the talking, if she is a nice dark green then lay off a little, use a weaker solution and lower frequency, if she is getting on the yellow side then step up the strength a bit. Note: Urine can have a high salt content, depending upon your diet. I recommend that when you water with plain water, you allow some run off (approximately 1/8-1/4 volume of your pot) and toss it, this should rid your soil of excess salts.

Use in Hydro
About 8 ounces (1cup) for every 3 gall or reservoir water has been effective (thanks foto) but you should adjust according to your conditions, plant needs, and smell issues. The nitrogen in urine (ammonia and urea) must first be consumed by bacteria as food. The bacteria then store the nitrogen in the bacterial protoplasm. As the Bacteria die, they liberate the stored nitrogen as nitrate, sort of like a time release capsule, to be taken up by the plants. In soil this is no problem but in hydro setups there may not be enough bacteria culture to breakdown the urea and ammonia. Therefore it will be a good idea to drip your Res water through a porous material that can support a bacteria culture such as lava rocks, ceramic bio filter material, foam, sponge. It is up to you; it does not need to be fancy just able to support beneficial bacteria. This step may not be required if your root mass is large enough or if you have a trickle system through a porous medium like rockwool or coco. To get a good start on your bacteria culture you can get some bio-filter booster liquid from any aquarium shop. This liquid contains "good" bacteria that will help you develop a thriving population use as directed (usually a few drops per gal.)

Fermented or Fresh (By Klompen)
Traditionally, urine was kept in a garden in a large barrel. Sweet smellnig flowers were typically planted around this barrel to mask any odors. This fermentation does have some great benefits, such as breaking down the urea into more useable amoniates. Also, it has the benefit of allowing the salts to settle out of it to a large degree. This settling of the salt does take some micronutes out as some of them bind to the salt, but it's a minimal loss. The odor profile of the urine is changed quite a bit by the fermenting process as well. It is not a better smell, but instead a "richer" smell.

There are downsides. Chief downside is the fact that you must leave a container of urine sitting around. Guests don't always like finding out what you've got sitting in that mysterious bottle. As mentioned above, a small amount of micronutes are lost from settling. You will also lose a bit of the urine at the bottom of the bottle because it has the settled substances in higher amounts. One other downside is that you will need to have two containers ideally, since you will not want to be putting fresh urine into a bottle full of fermented urine.

Nutrient Levels (approximation, will vary according to diet)
Alanine, total ..... 38 mg/day
Arginine, total ..... 32 mg/day
Ascorbic acid ..... 30 mg/day
Allantoin ..... 12 mg/day
Amino acids, total ..... 2.1 g/day
Bicarbonate ..... 140 mg/day
Biotin ..... 35 mg/day
Calcium ..... 23 mg/day
Creatinine ..... 1.4 mg/day
Cystine ..... 120 mg/day
Dopamine ..... 0.40 mg/day
Epinephrine ..... 0.01 mg/day
Folic acid ..... 4 mg/day
Glucose ..... 100 mg/day
Glutamic acid ..... 308 mg/day
Glycine ..... 455 mg/day
Inositol ..... 14 mg/day
Iodine ..... 0.25 mg/day
Iron ..... 0.5 mg/day
Lysine, total ..... 56 mg/day
Magnesium ..... 100 mg/day
Manganese ..... 0.5 mg/day
Methionine, total ..... 10 mg/day
Nitrogen, total ..... 15 g/day
Ornithine ..... 10 mg/day
Pantothenic acid ..... 3 mg/day
Phenylalanine ..... 21 mg/day
Phosphorus, organic ..... 9 mg/day
Potassium ..... 2.5 mg/day
Proteins, total ..... 5 mg/day
Riboflavin ..... 0.9 mg/day
Tryptophan, total ..... 28 mg/day
Tyrosine, total ..... 50 mg/day
Urea ..... 24.5 mg/day
Vitamin B6 ..... 100 mg/day
Vitamin B12 ..... 0.03 mg/day
Zinc ..... 1.4 mg/day

approx 2 liters is excreted /day.

Human urine is a great source of auxin, in fact one of the most potent auxins can be found in human urine; indol-3-acetic acid or IAA. Among many things auxin is known to stimulate flower growth, promote ethylene production, and stimulate root growth.

I have gone though an entire grow using urine without any deficiencies, but many feel that during flowering your phosphorus levels are too low. If you desire, a bloom fertilizer may be used in tandem during the flowering phase.
A tea made with the Russian comphry plant (3.6-1-10.6) is an excellent organic bloom fertilizer for those of us who do not wish to use chemicals at any step. Also a tea of bone meal, or bone meal in your soil mix is probably the best way to add Phosphorus.

In addition I would, and have, cut back on the amout of urine used in the flower period (both frequency and consentration). There is some evidence that Nitrogen in excess will inhibit flower growth, and increase your 12/12 time.

Your body can only absorb about 10-15% of a multivitamin/mineral pill the rest is flushed out with your urine. Taking a multivitamin/mineral about 3 hours before your urine collection can give you many vital micro nutrients.

A balanced and healthy diet means balanced and healthy urine. Keep fit and eat well and you should have nutrient rich urine and happy plants.

PH
The PH value for human urine can range anywhere from 5 and 8.5 but most often is found between 5.5 and 7.5 in healthy individuals with a balanced diet. A value of 6 is average. High protein diets can lower PH (more acidic) and Vegetarian diets raise PH values (more alkaline). Urinary infection will increase PH value. Test your PH and lower it (coffee, lemon juice, or vinegar are great organic PH downs) if any higher that 6, especially if in a hydro system, or increase your protein consumption. If the soil you are using is fairly acidic, like peat moss you will want to make sure you are not dropping it too low with acidic urine; dolomite lime can help you buffer this up, or increase your vegetable intake and lower your protein.

Pro's

It Works
Tried and true. In my (and a few others) opinion it works as good as commercial fertilizers when used properly. A side by side clone to clone test has not yet been done (to my knowledge), but there is no question that urine produces healthy, frosty, dank nugs, as good as anything out there.

Cheap
You can't beat free can you? Not likely. Weather you are growing for pleasure or profit saving money is something that I think we all desire. If you have no problem with spending the money, then go right ahead. Call it ghetto if you want, I call it natures gift, and I intend to make the best of it.

Available
It’s like fertilizer on tap. No hasty visits to the hydro/garden shop. No “I’ll have to do without for a while”. It’s always there when you need it.

Environmentally friendly
Many of us would like to preserve the earth. Well organic fertilizers are the way to go if this is part of your ethos. Chemical fertilizers are produced from petroleum products, natural gas, and coal. Minerals are made more soluble with acids. After the compounds are used by the plant the contaminants left over in the soil can become poisonous and over time can leave the land depleted and ‘dead’. Using organic fertilizers closes a cycle of life that has existed for millennia. We feed the plants and they feed us, much like the oxygen and carbon dioxide cycle.

Compost
Urine in your compost pile is probably the best way to get extra Nitrogen into your mix.

Con's

Eww factor
If you are disgusted by this then maybe you should stick to chemical fertilizers. No matter how many times I tell people that urine is sterile in the bladder, and is only dangerous if compromised by fecease or other pathogen carrying substances, some just cannot get over it. People also believe that the urine will somehow end up being ‘smoked’ yet they have no qualms about ‘smoking’ the chemicals or other organic ferts. All fertilizers are broken down by the plant, used in chemical reactions and changed. There is no way that you will be 'smoking' your fertalizers, whatever you use, as long as you aren’t foliar spraying in flower, but then you wouldn’t do that with fish emulsion or chemicals now would you?

Salt content
Human urine will contain various salts. Depending on diet your urine can contain up a max of 2.2% salt, this is because the human kidney cannot concentrate salts to greater than 2.2%. On average salt content will be about 30g/L Total dissolved solids constitute about 5% of urine volume. As previously stated it will be to your benefit to allow some run off when watering and toss it, this will rid your soil of excess salts.

Infections and parasites
Hygienic risks are negligible, unless the urine comes in contact with pathogens after leaving the body. The urine of a healthy person is sterile in the bladder. If you have a urinary tract, or kidney infection your urine will contain bacteria that can infect others. It is quite impossible for the infection to be passed through the plant, bud or smoke. If you are sick the majority of pathogens that can transmit disease will die within 24 hours of leaving the body. Infections will increase both your salt content and PH values, and can contain bacteria that consume nitrates.

Smell
Urine does have a distinctive unpleasant odor. If you mix it properly (1:10-20) then there should be no problems. I have only ever had a smell issue when I mixed it entirely too strong. If you have ever used fish emulsion, blood meal, or guano/manure you should be used to offensive odors and should not have a problem using urine.

Imprecise
Urine fertilizing is not an exact science. Exact nutrient levels and concentrations cannot be accurately established without the proper equipment. Notwithstanding some trial and error is necessary in every fertilizer regiment. Certain strains can have differing tolerances, different growing conditions and methods vary in their ability to deliver nutrients reliably.
------------------------

Thanks Foto420, Fuze, me2, carfreak69, Klompen, satghost, Seu Edmilson and everyone that have open minds on this subject.

http://www.geocities.com/impatients...dFertilizer.htm
gen info

http://www.liquidgoldbook.com/
(General info, great book)

http://www.plant-hormones.info/auxins.htm(auxins)

http://faq.gardenweb.com/faq/lists/...5416013761.html
(Cheap ferts)

http://www.biologie.uni-hamburg.de/...n/excretion.htm
(salt content)

http://www.craigmedical.com/urinalysis_techs.htm
(ph)

www.iees.ch/EcoEng011/downloads/EcoEng011_F2.pdf
(Swedish findings)

http://www.mst.dk/project/NyViden/2001/11040000.htm
(characterization of urine)

http://www.anarac.com/fertilizersewage_sludge.htm
(chem. ferts)

http://www.iees.ch/EcoEng011/EcoEng011_F2.html
(gen info/ hygenic risks)

http://www.all-natural.com/urine.html
(nutes found in urine)
Last edited by BuddyNugs : 02-09-2006 at 05:43 PM.

The idea of using manure and guanos and being scared of urine makes me laugh. You think someone is seperating the piss from the shit for you?

I would definitely use it outdoor but it's best if bubbled or fermented first.

You guys and gals that brew compost teas are really missing out if you don't squeeze of a few drops in your teabucket. Try it and watch what happens.

 

[quadracer]

I don't know why I shouldn't think something that comes out of my wiener, and is sterile, is preferable to something that plopped out of the ass of some livestock. People use shit, piss, boiled bones, dried blood, shredded fish guts, and hair as fertilizers. Why again is my urine so horrible compared to these things?

What kind of diet do you eat? Ever go to fast food? What do you drink? Do you drink enough water throughout the day? What kind of pharmaceuticals are you on?

I wouldn't use any livestock waste if they haven't been fed with organic feed. If the animal has been pumped up with antibiotics or steroids, I wouldn't use it either.

Can I hold your urine to the same standard I do other animals?

A fellow master composter grew up in China, where he shared the story of having to wake up early to collect the human and animal waste to use as fertilizer. There was nothing else available and they had to use something.

Human Urine As A Safe, Inexpensive Fertilizer For Food Crops

ScienceDaily (Oct. 8, 2007) — Researchers in Finland are reporting successful use of an unlikely fertilizer for farm fields that is inexpensive, abundantly available, and undeniably organic -- human urine. Their report on use of urine to fertilize cabbage crops is scheduled for the Oct. 31 issue of ACS' Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry.

Despite the 'yuk!' factor, urine from healthy individuals is virtually sterile, free of bacteria or viruses. Naturally rich in nitrogen and other nutrients, urine has been used as fertilizer since ancient times.

Urine fertilization is rare today. However, it has gained attention in some areas as farmers embrace organic production methods and try to reduce use of synthetic fertilizers.

In the new study, Surendra K. Pradhan and colleagues collected human urine from private homes and used it to fertilize cabbage crops. Then they compared the urine-fertilized crops with those grown with conventional industrial fertilizer and no fertilizer.

The analysis showed that growth and biomass were slightly higher with urine than with conventional fertilizer.

There was no difference in nutritional value of the cabbage. "Our results show that human urine could be used as a fertilizer for cabbage and does not pose any significant hygienic threats or leave any distinctive flavor in food products," the report concludes.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/10/071008093608.htm

 

[tree d]

Urine has been in constant use as fert. since the beginning of time. Once you get over the ick factor and fully realize the benefits to your soil micoherd, ther is no turning back. Not to mention your urine contains practically every trace mineral imaginable. Look it up, don't be ignorant.

About once a month I do a ~20:1 watering.......urine is the ultimate quick 'green up' for plants lacking in nitrogen. No smell at this dilution, either.

I find that variety in organic ferts gives the best results, as far as taste is concerned. I usually rotate the watering of various teas and concoctions to match the growth stage and needs of the plants.

PS: If your piss stinks you should adjust your diet and drink more water and less Brawndo.

 

[magiccannabus]

What kind of diet do you eat? Ever go to fast food? What do you drink? Do you drink enough water throughout the day? What kind of pharmaceuticals are you on?

I wouldn't use any livestock waste if they haven't been fed with organic feed. If the animal has been pumped up with antibiotics or steroids, I wouldn't use it either.

Can I hold your urine to the same standard I do other animals?

A fellow master composter grew up in China, where he shared the story of having to wake up early to collect the human and animal waste to use as fertilizer. There was nothing else available and they had to use something.

There's a huge difference between "human wastes" and urine. Anyway, I am on a great diet, low fat, no glutens, limited dairy(just cheese, not much of it). I cook everything, I eat no fast food, I eat almost all "organic" labeled foods, I don't drink any alcohol, and my only real vice is lots of soda. I even use the kind of salt that is 50% potassium chloride. I don't take any drugs except a headache pill or two on rare occasion, sometimes a claritin. My urine is a lot cleaner than the average pile of cow dung.

 

[maryjohn]

how can you stand that potassium table salt? it's disgusting!

 

[magiccannabus]

Well I love it

 

[Leviathan]

most people dont understand that piss is what the body didnt need at that moment but not what the body doesnt need, piss isnt toxic, the kidneys rule salt balance, the liver toxiicity with help from the breath(lungs) and skin as well as your colon. piss is full of nutrients,salts,hormones,vit,minerals, enzymes etc. im just getting into it as an additive here and there, its esp rich in stuff after youve taken a multi vitiman or first thing in the morning when your hormones are at there peak(think post morning wood piss) for your girls...

 

[Expat]

Better with wood ash

Better with wood ash

How about this Clever cut n paste job from Science News

KUOPIO, Finland, Sept. 4 (UPI) -- Human urine mixed with wood ash makes a potent, inexpensive fertilizer without risk of disease, scientists in Finland have learned.

The mix can be safely substituted for expensive synthetic fertilizers to produce abundant crops, researchers at the University of Kuopio said.

During the winter of 2007-08, researchers Surendra Pradhan and Helvi Heinonen-Tanski collected human urine from several eco-toilets in private homes, storing the urine for six months at 45 degrees Fahrenheit. After testing for microbes and bacteria, the urine was mixed with wood ash taken from a household furnace.

Tomato plants fertilized with urine only produced four times the tomatoes of unfertilized plants and as many tomatoes as plants treated with synthetic fertilizer, Pradhan said.

Tomato plants fertilized with the urine-ash mix produced nearly the same yield as plants fertilized with just urine and reduced the acidity of the soil, Pradhan said.

"The results suggest that urine with or without wood ash can be used as a substitute for mineral fertilizer to increase the yields of tomato without posing any microbial or chemical risks," Pradhan said.