Drain to waste vs Rec in 70/30 coco/pert

[nuggiespl]

I would like to do a rec drip, and considering using H&G aqua flakes, with like 150-250 ppm cal mag added to make up for the non spec coco nute. My mix would be 70/30 coco/pert. My understanding is coco spec nutes have added cal-mag and a lil less nit, and p, due to coco holding cal-mag and releasing p&k. Am I asking for trouble.
I considered drain to waste with coco, spec nutes which I think would be less plant problems but more work by far. My set up will allow me to do either. I would line the bottom of the 2 gal square pot with rocks and put a filter over the pump to keep coco, from clogging the drippers and the pump. I have used the search function about this, concluded H&G aqua from I think it was Paco who had good results, but he was doing ebb&flow in coco if I remember right. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance. Peace

 

[nuggiespl]

anyone? help newb out come on please.
Peace

 

[TwinTurboGuy]

I can only account for pure coco coir but not much of a difference for top feed in coco cut with perlite. I would lose the drippers and run open spaghetti line for 1 minute or so.

Although some have great success with it, I find recirculating coco a bit of hard work. With a few of my grows, heres what I think:

Recirculating:
Pros:
You save on using all your nutes
Easy Plumbing
You can use an ebb&flow system

Cons:
Must monitor PH
Salt Build Up
Cal Mag Issues

Drain to Waste
Pros:
Don't have to worry about deficiencies or lockouts from erratic PH
No need to worry about salt build up
Its simply feed and forget

Cons:
Messy and tricky plumbing and drainage
Eats alot of nutes

If I was in your shoes, I'd consider using ebb&flow if you were gonna recirculate especially if you mix your coco with perlite. With a good mix of perlite, you will get better drainage, which is perfect for ebb&flow.

Good Luck!

 

[VerdeHombre]

I once did an experiment where I had a 430 watt 3'X3' using BPBP soil, karma and calmag done DTW in pure coco. I had 2 extra plants that I kinda tucked in the back of the tray where there is the least amount of light. Those plants were not hooked up to the twice/day auto water system and only given the DTW water by hand every day to every other day depending on when I could get to them. They showed earlier signs of nitrogen deficiencies but other than that, they yielded almost the same as the others and tasted the same. So, I would imagine that plants in a re-circ would be better off than those 2 were.

I also ran 2 bonsai mums in 2 quart containers on a 5gal rubermaid re-circ in pure coco for 2 years before I flowered them out. I would sometimes go 3 weeks without even checking the ph or adding water but usually stuck to 2 weeks.

 

[BENJI]

I would love help also on this topic because im in the exact same shoes...

 

[Bush Dr]

Run to waste everytime, I don't see a drainage 'problem' ...... you have to drain it to use recirculating, you just direct it into a waste container

Mine drain to a 60 litre plastic wheeled 'underbed' storage unit, once a week I pump out what's there (10 - 15% waste) and feed the garden

IMHO using ebb and flow slows down the growth advantages to be gained from using coco, using drippers is much more efficient

Go for it nuggiesppl ... good luck m8

 

[gmanwho]

unless u really know how to read your plants..... DTW. or at best a rez change every 3 days or so with a slow growing environment. If you have an intense growing environment, dtw.

Tried recirc for awhile, deficiencies are problematic. adding nutes back to a depleted rez is not the answer.





My thought is i give them a fresh plate of food to pick from every feeding. Not what has already been picked over. then u get build up of unused nutes.

in a recirc system: your meter may say 1400 ppm, for your setup that may be enough, BUT IS THAT 1400 PPM WHAT YOUR PLANT NEEDS ???? when u recirc the plant leaves behind nutes it doesnt need. then u get a build up of specific n or whatever. High levels of a certain nute WILL block other nutrients form being absorbed properly.

Fresh plate of food every feeding, dtw.....


DTW, cant stress that enough.

B-safe

 

[Techna]

unless u really know how to read your plants..... DTW. or at best a rez change every 3 days or so with a slow growing environment. If you have an intense growing environment, dtw.

Tried recirc for awhile, deficiencies are problematic. adding nutes back to a depleted rez is not the answer.





My thought is i give them a fresh plate of food to pick from every feeding. Not what has already been picked over. then u get build up of unused nutes.

in a recirc system: your meter may say 1400 ppm, for your setup that may be enough, BUT IS THAT 1400 PPM WHAT YOUR PLANT NEEDS ???? when u recirc the plant leaves behind nutes it doesnt need. then u get a build up of specific n or whatever. High levels of a certain nute WILL block other nutrients form being absorbed properly.

Fresh plate of food every feeding, dtw.....


DTW, cant stress that enough.

B-safe

agree

 

[Grizz]

I have done both, currently recerculating, my problem isent ph, it stays at 6 to 6.2. . the problem I have is ppm climing with every watering, if I start at 1200 ppm after 2 waterings Im up to 1500 ppm, so I add plain water every day to my rez and drain and clean once a week and mix a new batch, I am running canna nutes in pure canna coco. If its possible DTW is the safest way to go. but recirc will work, you just have to be on top of your ppm

 

[raygun]

Joesy try adding an auto topper to your res. I have a 5 gal bucket off to the side with a small pump and its hooked in to my main res to keep it at X gallons. Helps a ton.

You also may want to flush for 24-48 hours with just plain water to rinse out any build up in the coco. Or give all your gals just a good flush before you mix a new batch of nutes. Also if your coco is a bit recycled that may cause some of this. I'm thinking that is what was causing an EC rise in my set up and now that all the plants with old coco are out the ec has stablized and will now drop.

I run recirc and can't comment on if its better than DTW or if I lose out on harvest as I never did DTW. However I ran Bio-buckets before and never changed my res but once every 30 days or untill flush at harvest if things were running smooth. I never had issues with them needing somthing or an inballence of nutes. When I swiched to coco I kept my res the same. Why would coco when treated as a hydro medium be any different than perlite, hydroton, lava rocks or any other inert hydro meduim? Why would your rez become so unballenced with coco but stay OK in lava rocks and a bio-bucket or recirc DWC set up?

That was my take on it and so I stuck with my res set up from my bio-buckets and ran with it. I now will change my res about once a month and grow perpetually. I currently have 13 different plants going all on that same res all at different flowering times.
Check out my coco grow thread in my sig.

 

[gio77]

I've gotten sh** for expressing this before, but it seems this thread may be a little more open to the idea... it made me register to post, so...

Used most all brands of coir and all of them have excessive ppm's at first, be it hydrated bags or dehydrated bricks. When I initially hydrate & mix (cut w perl) & then then pot, I do a rinse & w 2L of mix, I get 500ml of run-off. When I test this, the pH is always much lower than my initial mix & the ppms vary between 700-2000+. This is with plain pH'd RO @ 30ppms. When I use a CM+ mix, the same, along with an initial pH drop- all the way down to 4.6-5.0. This all depends on the specific brand.

From my understanding of how coir collects Na & K in their natural growing state, the excesses in initial ppm's has a lot to do with these two elements. I'm sure that there is just other "crap" in there too. Also, it is my speculation that the initial pH drop's I noticed coincide with the replenishing of Ca along with the expulsion of Na & K. It seems most Ca compound are rather alkaline, so...?

Without any doubt, when I flush & treat with CM+, the plants that are transplanted here have less shock & are more vigorous early on. It would appear the higher Na & K content of the unflushed coir stresses the plants a little. This effect seems to vary across strains.

 

[dr-dank]

I have done both, currently recerculating, my problem isent ph, it stays at 6 to 6.2. . the problem I have is ppm climing with every watering, if I start at 1200 ppm after 2 waterings Im up to 1500 ppm, so I add plain water every day to my rez and drain and clean once a week and mix a new batch, I am running canna nutes in pure canna coco. If its possible DTW is the safest way to go. but recirc will work, you just have to be on top of your ppm

Agree!

I ran recir for awhile, but found the ph was always dropping, ppms would be somwhat sable. I would add ph + over the week, about 3 X to keep the ph at 6.8. Got to where I felt too much ph + as the ppm componant.

I now have a dtw, but when I'm home I hand water 1 x a day. I feel I get better coverage than with a dripper than tends to hit a smaller area.

Running GH flora using lucas. Would target around 400 PPM for recir, and never saw any burn but did get some mag defs on fasy groing OG kush. I used botanicare bagged coco. When i did rinse this once I found low ppm and no longer pre-condition.

Regards

 

[split kooks]

theres a side-by-side comparison here on these COCO forums....


but from what i can tell, and from running with coco for a soild 6 months, ANY perlite cut in gives me a much better growth pattern than all coco (canna).


Perlite cut vs. straight coco - a documented trial w/ clones by Mr. Bongjangles.


compared to my compadre whom recirc's and me with my RtW - i like his water savings and the overall look of his plants because of the time and short interval waterings (recirculating drip system)...but i do love that since i dont have his time every three days is fine for me to handwater

 

[Grizz]

Agree!

I ran recir for awhile, but found the ph was always dropping, ppms would be somwhat sable. I would add ph + over the week, about 3 X to keep the ph at 6.8. Got to where I felt too much ph + as the ppm componant.

I now have a dtw, but when I'm home I hand water 1 x a day. I feel I get better coverage than with a dripper than tends to hit a smaller area.

Running GH flora using lucas. Would target around 400 PPM for recir, and never saw any burn but did get some mag defs on fasy groing OG kush. I used botanicare bagged coco. When i did rinse this once I found low ppm and no longer pre-condition.

Regards

hell dank my plain water is 600 ppm , mine don't burn at 1300 ppm and produce well, your ph seems a little high to, from what I have read 5.8 is perfect in coco. probablt wrong but thats my experianse. also my ph climbs , not dramaticly but usally will go from 5.8 to 6.1 with each watering

 

[onegreenday]

yah 6.8 is high. I took a look at the Canna Coco literature & they suggest 5.2-6.2 for the "vast majority of plants"

They suggest 1.0-1.5 veg & 1.2 up to 1.8EC at certain stages.

 

[dr-dank]

hell dank my plain water is 600 ppm , mine don't burn at 1300 ppm and produce well, your ph seems a little high to, from what I have read 5.8 is perfect in coco. probablt wrong but thats my experianse. also my ph climbs , not dramaticly but usally will go from 5.8 to 6.1 with each watering

Good catch. I meant keep ph at 5.8. It would get as low as 5.4, highs as 6.3

As i feed each water, and water 1 x a day, I wanted to error on the light side. When using recirc I was running only 400 PPMs, and then upped it for the dtw. It seems that since then the plants have been more top heavy, but I never saw signs of deffency and was afraid to burn them. Also, I end up with a 2.5 foot plant in a 3/4 G squire pot. This is for space reasons.

I wonder if having some root boundness warrants a stronger feed? I do see some salt build up on the edges of the planters, but when I do flush the ro is pretty much what goes in so I dod not feel there is any build up.

Cheers

 

[Grizz]

Good catch. I meant keep ph at 5.8. It would get as low as 5.4, highs as 6.3

As i feed each water, and water 1 x a day, I wanted to error on the light side. When using recirc I was running only 400 PPMs, and then upped it for the dtw. It seems that since then the plants have been more top heavy, but I never saw signs of deffency and was afraid to burn them. Also, I end up with a 2.5 foot plant in a 3/4 G squire pot. This is for space reasons.

I wonder if having some root boundness warrants a stronger feed? I do see some salt build up on the edges of the planters, but when I do flush the ro is pretty much what goes in so I dod not feel there is any build up.

Cheers

thats the way to do it, its easy to add more but damn near impossible to correct nute burn, I know you can flush the shit out of them but it seems once they get to much the effects are impossible to cure.

I hand water also with a sub pump and a hose, the tri meter I put on my rez is the best investment I have made, before I really had no idea what I was feeding. one thing I will warn people about is the bloombastic flower booster. strictly dtw with it. it will raise ppm off the carts if left in your rez to long