Dangerous Technologies

[Verger OG]

Since my thread about smart meters was closed thanks to some griefer trolls, I decided to open another.

This time not about smart meters specifically but about technology in general, that can be used against us.

In my threat I gave to examples, smart meters and helicopter sniffer drones. People called me many things in my threat like I am lying that this technology exists. In a forum about security of all places.

So I wonder what technologies or devices others think is a threat to their security and privacy when it comes to growing.

Also, what counter-technologies can we use to enhance our security and protection? Some suggested that we should just be inventive and be smarter. Some suggested a device to fool a smart meter. Or found ways to have a dual rooms set up with continuous power usage.

So, tell me, what other machines, devices and appliances exist that cause us grief? And what can we do about it? Share your wisdom please.

Peace!

 

[trich-zilla]

Build a Faraday Cage around the meter.. problem solved. No trickery, No fooling around.. cock blocked!

 

[blackone]

Uhm not.. last thing you wanna do is block that smart meter.
The electric company will obviously knock on your door to find out why it's not working if they don't get any readings.
I hope this post was ironic?

Best thing you can do is probably keep your grow small and perhaps run 2 rooms on a flip-flop schedule.

 

[Verger OG]

Faraday cage, that is interesting. That shouldn't be hard. It will keep Wi-fi like signals inside? But if the power company won't get any data in, perhaps they will send someone over thinking the wi-fi part of the meter is broken.

I rather not have anyone in my house.

In The Netherlands we can now use internet to 'call in' our meter err...position. Based on that you get the bill. Normally they would send someone over every year to write the number down. That cost too much. So now we use internet. Also for water and gas. Netherlands uses a lot of natural gas for cooking.

I think the new deal is that once in 5 years they come by to check the meter just to see if I am not internetting in false data.

I was glad no one came over I like my privacy a lot. And not just because I grow a few months a year.

 

[manwithnoname]

hope this doesnt turn into a pissy argument like the last post...

but on a brighter note... i'm not sure if you can call our meters here "smart". seems to me, the only thing they transmit is the current # on the meter, and only a short distance. I have seen the power company drive by and stop in front of everyone's house to read meters. it cuts down on time by them not having to get out and walk to the meter.

its probably a good thing that they somewhat can keep track of power usage in case you really do have a problem with your power so they can alert you. i'm guessing the gas company also does this possibly to avoid our deaths. dont see why they would need to report power consumption to any other entity tho. this is where i would draw the line. i mean my phone company records my minute usage, but dont think they would report it to anyone else.

never heard of any sniffing devices, i guess it could exist. i'm sure it would need a search warrant, just like the heat sensing camera's they have. at least that's the way it is in the US.

not too concerned about energy consumption. in just one of my 4 computers i have a 1000 watt power supply.

btw, can someone leagally grow in the Netherlands? Doesnt seem like it would be that big of a deal anyway. i mean if i make my my own coffee, the gov't isnt going to be all up in my ass.

i do like the points you make about the miniture aircraft that are being developed... no doubt local authorites will jump on the bandwagon. prob not to difficult to affix a FLIR to one of them.

What i dont understand about FLIR is why someone would be concerned about cops using it. since it requires a warrant, they would need to have something to tell the judge as to the reason for the warrant, which means you would have loose ends elsewhere. would it really be reasonable to break down someones door because they have heat coming out of their house?

personaly, i would be more concerned about someone snitching

 

[Verger OG]

hope this doesnt turn into a pissy argument like the last post...

My hope too. So thanks for being civil!

but on a brighter note... i'm not sure if you can call our meters here "smart". seems to me, the only thing they transmit is the current # on the meter, and only a short distance. I have seen the power company drive by and stop in front of everyone's house to read meters. it cuts down on time by them not having to get out and walk to the meter.

Yes, there are different types of smart meters, I mentioned this in the other thread. Teh reason why my government postpones the intro of them is that they really want to make sure we get the latest technology.

But you pointed to a security risk.

In NL there is a growing awareness among tweakers and LEO that many people use notebooks and modems that are not protected. It happens that someone drives up to a house and scans for the modem signals. And then they can get access to the computer. One tv show demonstrated this. It works with homes and they showed that big businesses are also naieve with their protections.

Now, in effect, unless someone, for whatever reason, suspects you of growing, they can do the same as the power co dude. Drive up and scan your power use. Well, they migth suspect it but they don't ghave to. They can just check all houses in a suspicious neighborhood and see what house really uses a lot. Theyc an also do that over a period of time, to check when you are at home or away. And then rob you blind. And at that, they don't even have to be after your grow.

I do not feel comfy with the idea from my house my personal power use is being transmitted.

If any fool with a little IT insight can detect modems and abuse people to get credit card info and paswords, then they will do the same with smart meters.

its probably a good thing that they somewhat can keep track of power usage in case you really do have a problem with your power so they can alert you.

I am not sure I understand. What sort of problem could that be? I can only say that Dutch network reliability is among the highest in the world. With like 99,5%. We rarely have outages. And I never heard of broken meters.

i'm guessing the gas company also does this possibly to avoid our deaths. dont see why they would need to report power consumption to any other entity tho. this is where i would draw the line. i mean my phone company records my minute usage, but dont think they would report it to anyone else.

Not if they don't have to. But under terrorist laws they can be forced. These laws allow a great...freedom or leniency to LEO. Already they are testing how far they can go.

never heard of any sniffing devices, i guess it could exist. i'm sure it would need a search warrant, just like the heat sensing camera's they have. at least that's the way it is in the US.

They need a search warrant to fly over a neighborhood with a detection camera like infra red? Or a sniffer device? I doubt it...

not too concerned about energy consumption. in just one of my 4 computers i have a 1000 watt power supply.

btw, can someone leagally grow in the Netherlands? Doesnt seem like it would be that big of a deal anyway. i mean if i make my my own coffee, the gov't isnt going to be all up in my ass.

My PC is 600W. But it uses it only to the max if I game heavily
Damn vid card is like 400W! That is as much as my HPS! That incredible. And I was wondering to get a 600W for next grow. I am not satisfied with my 400W. I also want a MH lamp I think.

I should get those while I still can at my local growshop cause see my sig.

No we cannot legally grow here. I wonder if I grew coffee how fast they'd be up my ass.
I visited a cigarette factory. Rothmans. Employees upon leaving the factory pass through a gate and they need to push a button. At random a light comes on. Then they have to empty their purse and get searched. Why? Because on tobacco is an extra tax after VAT. They fear people will steal cigs. They are so afraid of it, they harass employees this way. Because on the packs are no special stamps or labels showing the extra tax is to be paid for them.

But no we can't grow legally. We have a 'condone' policy. You can have a few plants and they won't do much unless the neighbors complain about smell or whatever. They cans till remove them if they want to. You may get a fine. And the worst thing you can get is a heavy fine by power co IF you tap illegally. Usually with bigger grow ops in apartments that fine is more brutal than the charges by the justice department. They sue the 'intent' argument. They can determine if a grow is for personal use or for selling. In principle, I can be charged because I use artificial lights, which seems to be the thing to get you charged. So on my balcony, 2 plants, np. I think 4 is the max. Lol, I keep forgetting the details cause I am not too scared.

i do like the points you make about the miniture aircraft that are being developed... no doubt local authorites will jump on the bandwagon. prob not to difficult to affix a FLIR to one of them.

http://www.verhagenx2.com/verhagex2heliko.html

Like these?

What is FLIR?[/QUOTE]

 

[manwithnoname]

flir=heat imaging radar

yeah, pretty soon we will have those little devils flying over our homes taking pictures and such

 

[Verger OG]

Well, another technology to help us is photovoltaïc. Solar power. It helps reduce your dependance on power co. And wind technology.

If you are a serious grower and seller, invest in these to make the world a better place.

 

[Verger OG]

flir=heat imaging radar

yeah, pretty soon we will have those little devils flying over our homes taking pictures and such

Indeed.

However, if you have solar panels on the roof. Don't they heat up in the sun? And emit warmth at night collected from the day? Now if you put your grow under them in the attic, would it be hidden by the solar panels?

Also, another tech: solar boiler. For those who don't know: A solar boiler is a system where a liquid like an oil or just water is heated by the sun in the day and it looks like solar panels and that warmth is transferred to your central heating system. Through heat exchange you cal also warm or pre-warm tap water.

So it seems that 'green' technology is green in many ways

 

[Verger OG]

Thanks for the FLIR explanation.

But in The Netherlands they DO target weed with sniffers, that is the goal. Of course, if you have a sniffer device there si no point in not adding Meth and other molecules so they can be detected. But on tv they specifically mentioned weed.

Just so you know.

In the meanwhile:

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2009-01/uoc--itp012709.php

"Is technology producing a decline in critical thinking and analysis?"

Seeing some of the reactions in my earlier thread, it seems to be the case

I found this article on tweakers.net. They feature lots of articles on technology. On the same day I saw another article, about a study by our College of Protection Personal Data. The watchdog for privacy issues.

They studied what people thought about privacy. And how they found that citizens accept the loss of privacy "resigned".

See the link between the two? Just as I described in the other thread. People allow technology to think for them.

Just the other day a person drove a car in the water because their TomTom said to turn right. People rely on machines and technology. And see no harzards in them. Hence this thread.

Technology is being used to rip our privacy away and as such is harmful. Coupled, we rely on tech too much. And become dependent. Yet we think that other tech will save us from intrusive practises.

You see the same way people here discuss internet privacy in regards to posting messages here, I just replied to a poster about not worrying too much. That he is relatively safe. Am I being, what is the word here...'resignicative' too? That is not a word I bet so call it a neologism.

You tell me what the hmm...sociology is of technology.

 

[Greenjag]

Yep, silent helicopter drones are no longer fantasy. Boeing have just rolled out the A330 'Hummingbird'. A silent helicopter drone with variable rotor speed which can stay up there for 24 hours. I would have posted a link but I can never find these articles again afterwards.

 

[GeneticHeirloom]

if you're growing indoors and worried about flir, why not just use mylar? You can get upto 99% Infra red blocking, so if you lined your grow in mylar and cooled the air before it left the room, helicopter would see absolutely nothing.

 

[Verger OG]

Mylar I guess is a 'technology' of sorts and well known for years. I use it myself. I don't cool the air. My air outlet is directly attached to the house' mechanical ventilation system
So it goes up through the roof of the apartment building.

That means it is always warm anyway since it just sucks out warm moist air from these sort of damp 1960's apartments.

And that suddenly brings me to another thing. We talked about FLIR and helo's. But the latest thing in The Netherlands is that all houses need to get a label. A sort of energy label, that means how well they are insulated etc.

So what do they do? They fly over suburbs with I suppose a FLIR system to detect heat leakage from roofs so they can see which houses need insulation. Something like that.

So as a matter of fact, all Dutch homes arer going to be scanned for heat signatures...

Now, another technology indeed that may not be in our interest.

Imagine you are an attic grower and a heat map is made of your apartment block, row of houses or whatever.
They will detect you lose a lot of energy through the roof. You get the advicve to insulate better. Where in fact your house is fine as it is, you just have several warm lamps there... As a result, your house may be labeled lower and that means if you want to sell it, it is worth less.

Welcome to the new age. But it is all to help you save money! And save the climate! Again, good ideas, but not per se for growers in this situation.

 

[GeneticHeirloom]

I hate to be redundant but the original solution of mylar would fix that. If you have heat leaks, you have heat leaks, but if you produce a large amount of heat up there and it subsequently gets put into the "heat leak" catagory, you could always fix the heat leaks the helicopter catches, and if they think your "R" value is lower than what it really is, just remove the insulation, slam down mylar, and put it back, instantly they'll see "better" insulation because of the IR blocking.

As long as the FLIR had absolutely no way of being used against a person and it was JUST for insulation, I would actually be glad they're doing it as they'll tell me where the "obvious" spots are and what I need to fix so I look like any other IR roof on the block.

 

[Justa6655321]

Dig Deeper - i'm in the process of thinking about drafting the plans for a deep tunnel 200 feet under the ground green room bunker that i can live in after the machines take over the world and Arnold becomes president. Seriously.....It's gonna happen dude!

For overhead air survailence i use a photon force field. If someone comes to my door i just use some Jedi mind tricks.

Simple....

Rule #1 dont tell anyone about Fight Club
Rule #2 dont tell anyone about Fight Club

 

[Justa6655321]

His name is Robert Paulson?

 

[3dDream]

Very soon led light will be a real possibility and LEO will be one more step in the dark.

 

[Verger OG]

I found another technology that isn't very good:
http://www.zumbalumba.com/

Apparently, this phone doesn't have memory. All data is stored centrally at this company that promises it is 100% safe.

Why is this bad? That means if you have a friend who uses this type of phone, he will store his phone number with your name in a place that can be hacked. For LEO it is even handier. With a court order under their arm just as with power co's and ISP's, during a criminal investigation they can get access to the database and see which people hold your phone numbers.

Of course, they can already do this at the telephone company today.

I am against central storage of any data because I have no control over what data someone stores about me. What a company does with it, how they secure it, if they sell it etc.
My data is MY data. I own my personal information.

The solution, don't ever buy this phone or any other using central storage.
Best not to use cell phones at all, which I do not. For several reasons.

 

[Verger OG]

Very soon led light will be a real possibility and LEO will be one more step in the dark.

How soon is soon you think? I should start following the threads about this.

 

[3dDream]

5-10 years soon if you want them cheap.