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The Dangers of Bat Guano

bat guano is NOT SUSTAINABLE or eco-friendly - harvesting it destroys bat populations due to constant disturbances and destroys the cave ecosystems, many of which contain endangered species. Due to being cave adapted these species (such as blind albino fish etc.) have limited mobility - cave ecosystems frequently, in fact, contain strange and unique species who survive ONLY in that particular cave system. Since there is no light, the bat guano, being made of nutrient resources brought from outside, is the foundation of the cave food chain, like plants are everywhere else. When the gauno is harvested and the bat populations diminished, the cave food chain collapses and can never recover, as the unique, fascinating, and even unknown species it contains all die - and go extinct - from starvation.
Furthermore, insufficient research has been done on the impact of declining bat populations on the spread of virulent diseases, as bats are predators on many disease spreading insects, and as such constitute the first line of defense, and in the case of poor people in countries like Jamaica, THE line of defense against deadly diseases.
If we want to continue using bat guano rather than searching for alternative, actually sustainable fertilizers, we need a supplier who will not harvest excessivly and will protect the bats (for example, by harvesting in the evening when the bats are out hunting). I have heard of one such supplier but cannot find their website. If someone else knows the site please post it. I have never found a high-P source of guano that is sustainable. Mostly it comes from Jamaica where there aren't many laws on how you get it, though at least one organization has formed in protest of its destructive impact.
 

HempHut

Active member
The Caveman claims that his guano is collected with these things in mind. Not only the health of the ecosystem but also the health of the workers is a concern.

I can't vouch for him personally, but I have seen one thread somewhere where he engaged with critics raising some of the points raised by the OP.

http://cavemans.co.uk/

He was also on Dragon's Den (American Inventor in N.A.), but didn't get the money.
 
I can tell yu that in my country (south amerika ) bats are far from extinction, those fuckers colonize every house that have a single little hole , the other day i went to help a friend clean a house that have been seriouly colonized , man what a mess !

We pulled like 15 big garbage bags of bat dry powder shit , there was like 5cm of it on the floor everywhere in the house after pulling the triplex wood walls and roof.

I took all the bags and i have a lifetime bat guano supply now, but i don't know if it's high in P, seems to have a lot of N in it as it seems to boost the young seedlings with a small amount .
I'm carefull while using it as it's very fine powder , very volatile and heard that it can gives you sickness if you inhale some .
 

organick

Member
I use a good particle mask when measuring.
I also use with a little guilt, thanks for the post, reminds me to get some more leaves for my compost heap. Human beings have been depleting the amount and number of flora and fauna for 50,000 years, I'm sure bats are included.
Glad to hear they are adapting to an urban environment, go bats!
 

habeeb

follow your heart
ICMag Donor
Veteran
yep I always use a mask when mixing nutrients to soil .

such a shame that organic nutrients are harmful to your lungs
 

organick

Member
Ever breath some Miracle Grow? Or the results of it's and other chem nutrient manufacture?
Perspective.
I'll take bat shit.
 

Retardo Motabon

Seenyourmember:0
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Lets not forget greensand. It is a finite resource. Organic doesn't necessarily mean sustainable or safe when it comes to organic materials used in ag and horticulture. There are plenty of organic compounds that will kill ya or cause sickness if you take in too much. Drink a nicotine tea and tell me otherwise! (please don't, you'll die.) We all need to think sustainably if we are going to survive. It's not just about chem vs natural. How much energy used to process materials whether soils, or peat, nutrients is very important. Organics still need to be bottled, shipped using fossil fuels, and processed with energy too. Organics tend to have less nutrient by volume, therefore energy used to ship these products are greater than with "chem" nutes. Lets take for example biobizz peat based mix. The peat is shipped from north america to europe and back again before you buy it. If you live in N. America, use a source produced closer to home and help the environment. There are plenty of manures that provide nutrients as well as guano that are produced within 100 or 200 miles from where you live. Just something to think about. Sorry to rant but i think its relevant to the thread.
RM
 

Microbeman

The Logical Gardener
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Absolutely correct Mr Retardo and Bolas.

Just because you find bats in an attic does not mean you can jump to a conclusion that cave dwelling bats of a certain variety are not endangered by the guano industry. There are different varieties of bats worldwide.

I grow everything we need on a farm using only worm compost and compost tea. This is a perfect alternative, as is homemade or purchased thermophylic compost. I have never once used bat guano.

Make your own soil mixes and re-use your soil!

If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.
 

jaykush

dirty black hands
ICMag Donor
Veteran
I grow everything we need on a farm using only worm compost and compost tea. This is a perfect alternative, as is homemade or purchased thermophylic compost. I have never once used bat guano.

Make your own soil mixes and re-use your soil!

ditto...
 

emmy75

Member
microbeman i like your idea and i am planning to do as you, grow using only nutrient rich compost.

also a great substitue for bat guano, N is alfalfa. good soil conditioner too.
 

sophisto

Member
Greed never ceases to amaze me.. When greed is the motive it is easy to justify " well they are just rats with wings" we can be pretty ignorant for such an "advanced species"...LOL ..Mankind needs to pull the wool from their eyes before it is too late....

Wars over shit. Very advanced....

At the current rate of consumption guano will be a thing of the past in not so many years from now....

Check out this article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/30/world/americas/30peru.html
 
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GET MO

Registered Med User
Veteran
I seen Planet Earth on discovery, Bat guano support a mountain of Roaches. I give a FUCK if I anialate a species of COCKA ROACH. Nasty lil bastards....
 
Chicken Guano works well and is a good substitute for bat, just be carefull it's very "hot" a little goes a long way!

Theres an abondened church in out town that was colinised by bats some 25 years ago...theres 2-3' of guano on the floor. When I go fishin in the evening I can see the bats stream out and down along the river in the last half hour of dusk...I'm glad theres a colony close by, they really keep down the moisqueto population.
 

ThaiPhoon

Active member
There is a famous bat cave here in Thailand (ratchaburi province) - that is home to some one million bats. The locals near the cave have been harvesting fresh guano for a very long time. I believe that this is a renewable source. A million bats shitting in the same place every day obviously makes a lot of guano. I can't think of the name of the place, but I think it is actually run by a temple. I don't think they export as the local farms grab it up on a daily basis.
Peace

edit: The two caves located inside Khao Chong Phran hill are thought to be home to approximately 3 million bats.
 
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VerdantGreen

Genetics Facilitator
Boutique Breeder
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
caveman is full of crap ( pun intended )

he has no solid data for being able to say,ethical extraction. He is lacking data to prove his methods are ethical when he backs it up by his educated guess.

http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=122463&st=0

it's easy to condemn someone who is attempting to address people's concerns and be accountable in business.

but now that Oxfam, one of the world's leading charities, is stocking caveman's guano as part of it's ethical and sustainable range, perhaps it's time that some of these accusations are withdrawn and apologies made.
Oxfam have very strict vetting and criteria for the items they sell, and you can rest assured they would not add a controvertial product like guano to their range without making doubly sure about it.

or are Oxfam full is crap too?
 

maryjohn

Active member
Veteran
Not saying you are wrong verdant, but that there's a logical fallacy called appeal to authority.
 

VerdantGreen

Genetics Facilitator
Boutique Breeder
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
true mj but that is a trick used by priests and politicians.

oxfam wouldnt want to sell something and pretend that it was ethical when it wasn't
 
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