Topping. When and where...?

[40AmpstoFreedom]

My plants for my first grow got really tall. I started flowering from 12-15 inches and some ended up 56-58 inches tall...and these arent sativa dominant genetics heh.

So this next grow I want to try growing them topped and compare yield. I know about LST but I don't have the time to do it currently so I want to top.

I want these plants to end up around 35-40 inches no more.

Questions:

A node is where new leaf sets come out right?

At what node should I top?

When you top do you clip right above the set of leaves?

 

[stihgnobevoli]

node is there the branches/leaves come out yes.

you can top at any node you want really. most people top around the 6th node. but theres no rule, just how tall you want the plant to be.

just cut the stem in between 2 nodes.
the top of the plant will stop growing and the only growth will be the branches, and there will be some stretching of the stem in between the remaining nodes you didnt top.

heres an old plant i topped and lst. bottom left foreground is the top of the plant where i topped and trained it. the buds are al the side branches.

 

[our kid]

topped plant

topped plant

dont know this might help not the best pic but this baby has been topped good luk


hope this helps our kid

 

[40AmpstoFreedom]

Thanks a lot exactly what I needed guys K+

 

[Kinderfeld]

What wattage are you using? THe higher up you let it top the more mature branching so I say wait until the 5th node, then trim the bottom. Of course this would be my second option...your chopping of the cola that will make the most bud, when really LST takes just about no effort...and doesn't stunt the plant and it ups yield, especially since the main cola is left, just take it slightly lower...this is also achieved by pinching which I would also do rather than topping...unless your using a strain the loves topping, topping to me is an older trick, there are much better ways to go about it...

 

[maryj315]

If height and time is your problem take KINDERfelds advice just bend it over it only takes a week for the top cola to catch up to the side branches

 

[Brastaman]

i agree with kinderfeld and maryJ. if you need to keep your plants smaller LST'ing them is the best bet. you could do one topping to get some side branching going and then lay over the plant. but straight topping a plant forces the plant to grow sideways, which ends up taking more room than originally thought and it stresses the plant so growth slows and it can be harder to control.
here is a pic of a plant that i topped once to get a clone off of and then lst'ed it or essentially layed it over.

 

[GreenThumbBumb]

sorry for stupid question but how do I top a mature plant with uneven nodes

 

[mexilandrace]

same way, it just isn't going to fill in as quickly, they get kinda neat looking though

 

[stihgnobevoli]

i beg to disagree. there have been numerous tests done in lst supercropping and topping. any loss in yield from tobbing is minimal. all the energy that would have gone into making a top cola is redistibuted into making a bunch of smaller colas on the side branches if you lst and top. even if you just top the enrgy still flows he same. it just wont grow similar sized colas on each branch.

you should really look up auxins and what they do. when you top a plant the next node becomes the new cola. so if you have 1 cola and top ot, the 2 uppermost branches become the new cola and grow half the size each of what the original cola would have been, and so on and so forth. i dont know if anyone has topped a plant down to the last node and grown 2 huge colas though. but im sure someone prolly has.

 

[maryj315]

i beg to disagree. there have been numerous tests done in lst supercropping and topping. any loss in yield from tobbing is minimal. all the energy that would have gone into making a top cola is redistibuted into making a bunch of smaller colas on the side branches if you lst and top. even if you just top the enrgy still flows he same. it just wont grow similar sized colas on each branch.

you should really look up auxins and what they do. when you top a plant the next node becomes the new cola. so if you have 1 cola and top ot, the 2 uppermost branches become the new cola and grow half the size each of what the original cola would have been, and so on and so forth. i dont know if anyone has topped a plant down to the last node and grown 2 huge colas though. but im sure someone prolly has.

Do not mean to be a ass your info is correct i read QUAZIs lst thread i know what auxin's are and how they work its not rocket science

I have topped before my plants still achieved the same height as my single cola plants

The answer i gave him was for a quick fix to control height i do not see where i got it wrong were both right we are just taking different paths to get to the same place

I agree everybody should know about auxin's and the role they play once you learn you wont need pics it explains itself here is a link


http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=98355

 

[40AmpstoFreedom]

I prefer topping because I have to veg these things out like another damn month tryng to slow them down I may need to top twice before they get in flower room....there at 3 and 4 nodes I am trying to pick my moms from this batch in flower room already. All the plants vegging now were clones taken so my goal is to keep them short and bushy so that I can flower the ones I won't keep as moms instead of have to chuck them out cuz they are too tall. I probably shouldve mentioned this in original thread.

by the way flowering light is a 1k watt and my veg is a tek 4ft 8 bulb

 

[Weedninja]

An lst WILL slow down your growth in terms of overall height. The idea is to spread the new growth to several nodes rather than allowing one to predominate. Remember that you can always hack down your girls again before flower.

 

[Greyskull]

Depending on the plant and how its growing I like to do my topping (or FIMing) when there are at least 4 nodes.. but I'll TOP/FIM anywhere between 4 & 6 nodes.
LST is great if you want to handle your grow that way.
So is TOP/FIMing. Its all about what style fo grow you are doing.
...and knowing your plant.

 

[ooga booga]

From my limited experience I'll have to say I agree with stihgnobevoli for the moment:

i beg to disagree. there have been numerous tests done in lst supercropping and topping. any loss in yield from tobbing is minimal. all the energy that would have gone into making a top cola is redistibuted into making a bunch of smaller colas on the side branches if you lst and top. even if you just top the enrgy still flows he same. it just wont grow similar sized colas on each branch.

you should really look up auxins and what they do. when you top a plant the next node becomes the new cola. so if you have 1 cola and top ot, the 2 uppermost branches become the new cola and grow half the size each of what the original cola would have been, and so on and so forth. i dont know if anyone has topped a plant down to the last node and grown 2 huge colas though. but im sure someone prolly has.

I have topped before my plants still achieved the same height as my single cola plants

All other conditions were same, such as veg time, distance to light, etc? This does not sound right. I've topped and LST'd (including ScrOG) and plain grew untrained plants, and I can't say I've had the same experience as you.

Although there are some general rule of thumb's pointed out previously I think it is worth mentioning the obvious note that it is oftentimes strain-dependent on what the strain will do and how, and when / where it's best to do so for the desired effects. For instance, do you want many, even, smaller top colas or do you want two fat lollypops?

 

[maryj315]

I know ooga booga that is why i told him his info was correct i am not in disagreement with his statement

My plants were not topped low for height control just to have 2 buds instead of one

I was just backing up a answer already given for a quick fix for height issues then i get told i need to read up on auxins

From what i know the only difference between topping and lst one is high stress and the other is low stress i do not understand what the debate is pick your poison they both get you to the same place

 

[ooga booga]

Sorry maryj315 I misread your post the first time around as "are not correct"... my mistake.

As far as LST... I suppose technically it could be slightly superior, but in practice and in reality with many plants that must fill the canopy uniformly, LST is really a true pain in the ass and may under-perform the uniformity of a single topping when done on a larger scale.

Another added bonus side effect of topping and LST'ing is that it produces slimmer colas, reducing the risk & chance of mold.

This round I'm doing 96 plants, and I can't imagine having to LST them right now... can't picture anything but a mess.

Of course the best solution is the one that works best for your situation and for mine topping is simple and produces uniform predictable results every time.

 

[maryj315]

Damm 96 plants that's a lot of green

After i run this a while i am going to try topping then lst so i can get me some bushes you might be able to give some pointers

I think a sog or vert stadium those type of systems is where i want to end up i think they are the most productive but you must also have the diligence to keep up the maintenance and have room for mothers

Just noticed your 6000 watt sig i only have 2k so i am off to check that out have a good day

 

[stihgnobevoli]

i see this auxins thing is really bothering you. i wasnt even talking to you i was mostly talking to the original poster to read up on auxins so he wouldnt be scared about topping his plants for fear of losing yield.

 

[Kinderfeld]

From what i know the only difference between topping and lst one is high stress and the other is low stress i do not understand what the debate is pick your poison they both get you to the same place

Yea, they will get you to the same place and like you said there some main differences, no main cola which produces andstressing/stunting is wayyyy more significant in topping.

As far as LST... I suppose technically it could be slightly superior, but in practice and in reality with many plants that must fill the canopy uniformly, LST is really a true pain in the ass and may under-perform the uniformity of a single topping when done on a larger scale.

Besides finding a strain that loves topping, I can also see doing it with plant numbers. However I still don't understand why you wouldn't just pinch them. Some strains absolutely HATE to be topped and there is no real way to know until it's done. Not all strains like LST but there are a lot more that tolerate it. Pinching them will stunt them, but you still get to keep your main cola, and to me that is probably the biggest difference. Yes you can cut it off and get the same energy spread out along the other branches...but with LST you can keep a main cola AND distribute the energy across the plant...so you get both ++'s.

Plus you can actually deicde where you want to energy to go with LST. I don't take my main cola all teh way below the branching, usually it sits an inch or two above the others....this way I have more energy spread to the branches from the main cola but still get my big cola.

But like someone said earlier it's all about your setup...everything matters strain, what wattage your using, growing methods (scrog, vertical etc.). I used to top A LOT at first but since I learned to LST properly the yield is the same if not better and I get my fat cola that I love so much