A note on "organics".

[BurnOne]

Discussions come up all the time here about (insert ingredient here) being organic, or not.
Well, as a matter of fact... NOTHING is 100% organic! NOTHING!
Everything has trace amounts of pesticides, heavy metals and radiation in it just to name a few.
And to clarify... Organic means "It Lived". PERIOD.
Lots of things once lived and are organic. Crude oil being just one. But I don't want crude oil in my grow.
Dolomite lime, perlite, Epsom salts and vermiculite are NOT organic. I repeat NOT organic! But I welcome them in an organic grow.
Dried blood, bone meal, fish emulsion and seaweed are welcomed nutrients in an organic grow. Dried blood and bone meal come from commercial meat and poultry processing factories. Have you ever seen or heard what they feed those animals? How about the growth hormones and antibiotics they give those animals? Not "organic" I can assure you. Fish and seaweed have pollutants in them. Heavy metals and acid rain to name a few.
But are those things good to use in an organic grow? You bet they are.
Pro Mix has a small fertilizer charge in it and a wetting agent (soap). That stuff is NOT organic. Is Pro Mix good to use in an organic grow? Damn straight it is. That stuff will be long gone by harvest anyway.
So, when you ask "Is that stuff 100% organic?" Hell no! It isn't. Will it grow great plants? Absolutely.

Now to be honest with you, stuff like Grow Big and Tiger Bloom as well as Pure Blend Pro is "organic based". Which means it contains organic ingredients along with some other items that are synthetic and/or chemical in nature. Would I use them? Well, I have. And they work just fine. Are they my preferred method of feeding? No.

What I'm saying here is this... Organics is simply another method of growing. I'm not saying it's better or worse than other methods of growing. It's just one more way of getting great results.

So, if you want to grow organic... pick a method or recipe and try a grow for yourself. But please don't go back and forth on this forum asking if (Brand X) is 100% organic. It isn't.

Burn1

 

[trichy]

Good point. People get caught up over the wrong things. But, wouldn't a better question someone could ask be, "Would this (ingredient) harm my beneficial organisms?"

 

[wygram]

Great follow up to B1's post trichy.

It's all a matter of opinion. Some of us prefer organic ganja, some like a little bit of "non-microbio-harmful" synth juice, and others go full on refined chelated hardcore. Done right, they all make for some great herb...

And that's the whole point here, right guys and girls? To grow the best herb we can... together... without division over opinion...

 

[maryj315]

Great follow up to B1's post trichy.

It's all a matter of opinion. Some of us prefer organic ganja, some like a little bit of "non-microbio-harmful" synth juice, and others go full on refined chelated hardcore. Done right, they all make for some great herb...

And that's the whole point here, right guys and girls? To grow the best herb we can... together... without division over opinion...

Well said

 

[K.J]

Good advice, but I still don't think that "is X organic" is an invalid question that deserves a thread lock-down. Just my opinion of course.

Some (like myself) prefer to go as organic as possible, which to me means not using lab made synthetics and chemicals unless you absolutely have to. Sure, seaweed is contaminated to some degree, but it's far better than something that is completely synthetic when it comes to my garden.

To each their own, but lets all try and be as helpful as possible, even when someone asks such a "lame" question as "is X organic?"

 

[Dragor]

Great post BurnOne - too many people looking for OMRI and other "organic" stamps of approval.. I have been growing full "organic" for almost a decade, and my judgement of organic vs not is solely based on looks/smell/content label - our senses are more powerful than we think... organics is good karma too, recycling of life form, animal/plant to plant

 

[BurnOne]

K.J.-
Those threads ALWAYS turn into a pissing contest.
Burn1

 

[K.J]

K.J.-
Those threads ALWAYS turn into a pissing contest.
Burn1

That's unfortunate. I thought peeps around here were more civilized than to get into pissing contests over the word organic. That certainly wasn't my intent; it was a genuine question. Maybe mods should wait on the lock-down until it actually does turn into a pissing contest?

 

[bounty29]

Some (like myself) prefer to go as organic as possible, which to me means not using lab made synthetics and chemicals unless you absolutely have to.

What would fall under that category? No pissing involved, just curious.

 

[K.J]

What would fall under that category? No pissing involved, just curious.

How about most Miracle Grow products?

 

[organick]

http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/ams...e=NOPNationalList&resultType=&acct=nopgeninfo

From this page are links that involve some reading but get the point across (it has to it's a law, if you want the USDA Organic stamp o' approval). So if someone asks me, "Is Dolomite lime organic" I'd say something like "A farmer could grow a vegetable certified USDA organic using dolomite lime".

I don't use anything with chem fertilizers, at least since the last time I used PBP (Which the USDA would not approve) six mouths ago. No super-charged potting soil. My spiritual connection with what I'm doing is too valuable: Chem's are killing the earth, my opinion.

I also do not own a car, I ride my bike up to about 50 miles a week (thank God for good friends with trucks and living in zone 9, 3 yard bales of peat moss don't travel well on a mountain bike, that's reality).

Don't know about the USDA but I consider my piss organic.

EDIT: So basically running the program with burn 1's definition works for me.

 

[Suby]

That's unfortunate. I thought peeps around here were more civilized than to get into pissing contests over the word organic. That certainly wasn't my intent; it was a genuine question. Maybe mods should wait on the lock-down until it actually does turn into a pissing contest?

For the last 3 years these threads draw the trolls out of the woodwork and highlights the differences between what one or the other considers organics.
They are tit useless debates based on personal experience and the semantics revolving around the individual growers definition of organic and do more to drive us apart when the point of forums is to bring us together to learn and share.

I've read some posters saying we (organics forum) are old school organics nuts and won't hear of new technologies and ideas (BS BTW) or that we are nutjob organic purist that snob anything that isn't 100% organic (even bigger BS BTW).

The truth is closer to the fact we enjoy growing organically while keeping our soil and plants as organic and pure as possible so as to be able to recycle soil and have a minimal amount of waste by the end of a grow.

Beside if you had taken the time to search you would have found at least 3-4 threads on Liquid Karma already, some of them non closed.
Hot topics that already have threads are pre-emptively flushed.

 

[K.J]

Beside if you had taken the time to search you would have found at least 3-4 threads on Liquid Karma already, some of them non closed.
Hot topics that already have threads are pre-emptively flushed.

I have taken the time to search. I'm a decades long forum veteran (member of many, many forums), so I'm quite familiar with how to find info in a forum. Unfortunately most forums have horrible search functions, including this one. The search function here is practically useless.

 

[jaykush]

I've read some posters saying we (organics forum) are old school organics nuts and won't hear of new technologies and ideas (BS BTW) or that we are nutjob organic purist that snob anything that isn't 100% organic (even bigger BS BTW).

damn i though thats what we were shooting for, shit haha.

 

[Suby]

http://www.icmag.com/ic/search.php?searchid=5672782

this search took like 2 seconds to pop up a bunch of threads, search function works fine if you learn how to use the advanced function.


Hey JK

Well I think I've been both and mostly still am lol but it would be stupid to think I represent the bunch of us...nutjobs

 

[toodles]

A herd of:











Toodles

 

[Mr Celsius]

1. Of, relating to, or derived from living organisms: organic matter.
2. Of, relating to, or affecting a bodily organ: an organic disease.
3.
1. Of, marked by, or involving the use of fertilizers or pesticides that are strictly of animal or vegetable origin: organic vegetables; an organic farm.
2. Raised or conducted without the use of drugs, hormones, or synthetic chemicals: organic chicken; organic cattle farming.
3. Serving organic food: an organic restaurant.
4. Simple, healthful, and close to nature: an organic lifestyle.
4.
1. Having properties associated with living organisms.
2. Resembling a living organism in organization or development; interconnected: society as an organic whole.
5. Constituting an integral part of a whole; fundamental.
6. Law. Denoting or relating to the fundamental or constitutional laws and precepts of a government or an organization.
7. Chemistry. Of or designating carbon compounds.

 

[K.J]

http://www.icmag.com/ic/search.php?searchid=5672782

this search took like 2 seconds to pop up a bunch of threads, search function works fine if you learn how to use the advanced function.

I do use the advanced search, and it's pretty useless too. I get tons of hits on my searches, but none seem that applicable to what I'm searching for.

Also, your link doesn't work.

 

[Suby]

Search links only work for a few hours but your a 10 year forum veteran you already knew that

Hey Mr C glad to see you posting again

 

[K.J]

Search links only work for a few hours but your a 10 year forum veteran you already knew that

Well no, that isn't the case with all forum software (and some depend on the settings). Anyway, thanks for the kind replies, I'll keep looking for the answer about LK on my own (I did end up finding some good info on one of the searches I performed).

I suppose I was being a little flippant when I said the search function was "useless", but it certainly isn't as good as it should be. I guess I'm just spoiled by all these years of using Google...hehe.