Yield.

[Pig-Pen]

Sorry if this has been discussed, but I couldn't find it if it has...

I'd like to generate an open discussion regarding yield as genetic expression.

Some of my observations:

Plants breed for yield are often regarded as having less potency and flavor.

The inverse seems to often hold true as well.

So, Yield vs. potency and/or flavor is often regarded as a compromise, as though a a plant can only be predisposed to one side or the other.

What factors might play a role in the genetic disposition to yield more?

Can these factors tend to diminish other traits such as potency or flavor or are they independent and non-relative?

Are "high yields" a naturally occurring trait or must they be breed for?

Is the propensity towards higher yields simply a recessive trait?

It seems ultra-poly crosses (a cross of two crosses that are each the result of separate and independent crosses, etc.) often have relatively low yields.

And......................GO.

 

[MickTheBrag]

northern lights# is a good plant for yield and potency. its got a very high yield and is one of the most powerful plants in the world.

 

[Slaythe]

northern lights# is a good plant for yield and potency. its got a very high yield and is one of the most powerful plants in the world.

But it lack flavour/scent.

 

[chubbynugs]

Yeah all the northern lights i have smoked is not the best in flavor if it has any flavor at all.

 

[HerbGlaze]

Uhmm, all Tiki SeedBank's strains Ive seen produce great yeilds and also, have good taste and potency.

 

[Pig-Pen]

I can name strains that have a good balance of yield, potency and flavor, but that's not the intention here.

 

[C21H30O2]

yield, potency, and flavor/scent... the tri-fecta

 

[Guest]

It true what you say, that people believe there is a relationship between yeild and potency, its been my experience to be much more complicated than that.

Potency is primarily genetic, although it can be influenced by the grow, but only towards the negative end of the range, You cant make the cannabis any more potent but you can make it less potent

Genes control the capacity for yield, but topping, feeding and behavior of the grower can dramatically increase yield or decrease it for that matter. Yield is not a fixed characteristic of a strain.

When flavor is thrown into the discussion it all becomes too complicated.

 

[MickTheBrag]

sorry guys but northern lights is one the best tasting smokes there is. a lovely sweet hashy taste. must have been ditchweed NL you were toking.

 

[Charles Xavier]

Greetings Pig-Pen

Is the propensity towards higher yields simply a recessive trait?...Pig-Pen

Yield cannot (accurately) be described as a 'recessive' or 'dominant' trait. It is a polygenetic and polygenic confluence.

Polygenic inheritance, sometimes described as quantitative or multifactorial inheritance refers to the expression of a phenotypic characteristic (trait: in this example: yield) attributable to the interaction of two or more genes (coupled with the influence of environment).

Monogenic or qualitative traits can be described in Mendelian terms (dominant, recessive, etc.). Polygenic traits cannot; as they do not follow the patterns laid out by the Mendelian model of inheritance, recessive or dominant becomes meaningless in terms of overall phenotypic expression, relation and comparison.

Rather, polygenic phenotypes will typically vary along a continuous gradient. The most useful method of tracking relation between these phenotypes is with the extrapolation of a bell curve graph.

Plants breed for yield are often regarded as having less potency and flavor. The inverse seems to often hold true as well....Pig-Pen

This is a fair observation with a fairly simple explanation: Selection.

In a commercial marketplace, plants bred for yield are bred often to the exclusion of any other criteria. Likewise, why keep a low yielding specimen, unless it also possessed outrageous potency or flavor (or whatever other phenotypic expression that the breeder deemed a priority and worthy of keeping)?

So, Yield vs. potency and/or flavor is often regarded as a compromise, as though a a plant can only be predisposed to one side or the other....Pig-Pen

So yield as opposed to potency and or flavour is often regarded as a necessary compromise, as though a plant can only express one or the other of these phenotypes... an erroneous conclusion based on accurate, but incomplete, observation.

Of course, there is crossover because the two 'pathways' are contained within the same organism, but for the most part (for our purposes) yield and potency are separate routes.

Note: Yes, there is a complex relationship between yield and potency and as such, it is not a simple inverse one. Amongst other things, it primarily deals with plant metabolism and terpenophenolic compound synthesis (cannabinoids included) and has no real impact or bearing for the hobby cultivator.

Are "high yields" a naturally occurring trait...Pig-Pen

Yes.

Sincerely,
Charles.

 

[Chaghatai]

I just think it is a natural effect of prioritization. If yeild is persued in breeding with no consideration for other traits such as taste, or potency, then it naturally follows that it is more likely to produce higher yield in shorter time than if multiple traits are simoultaneously bred for. that being said, I do not think that potency/flavor and yield are mutually exclusive or somehow situated at opposite ends of a genetic rheostat.

It could well be that they are, but I'm betting that is not the case. The intensive work of fixing multiple traits has been done however, that or "lucky" parents have come out of the gene pool as one there are A-rated yielders with A-rated potency. Certian clones of Hashplant fit that catagory. Krusty also swore by his pheno of the original Big Bud clone. It's yield was undisputed and Krusty himself emphatically states it's AAA grade. Attempts to breed this in seed form seem to have so far met with mixed results. Reeferman's grapefruit is said to be a big yielder as well as potent and tasty. (I'm going to run some and make a report to see what it does in my setup)
Another good example is AK-47. It is one of the most potent strains in the world and also one of the largest yielders.

 

[chubbynugs]

sorry guys but northern lights is one the best tasting smokes there is. a lovely sweet hashy taste. must have been ditchweed NL you were toking.

Umm flavor wise it doesnt touch a lot of strains out there. It was decent and better then a lot of strains i smoked but nowhere near my top thirty in flavor. Very easy and nice plant to grow though.

 

[kaneboy]

sensi skunk#1 is a very good yeilder and also is one of the nicest old school tastes and highs

 

[JWP]

Plants breed for yield are often regarded as having less potency and flavor.

The inverse seems to often hold true as well.

This is a fair observation with a fairly simple explanation: Selection.

In a commercial marketplace, plants bred for yield are bred often to the exclusion of any other criteria. Likewise, why keep a low yielding specimen, unless it also possessed outrageous potency or flavor (or whatever other phenotypic expression that the breeder deemed a priority and worthy of keeping)?

With just yield & potency in mind i'd like to think of the bud as a balloon with a set amount of trichomes. When the yield increases (balloon blows up) and the volume of trichomes per square cm decreases. This may explain noticeably lower potency on high yielders.

Take two plants of the same phenotype but one yeilds more than the other is the concentration of trichomes less on the larger plant? Have a smoke & you get more green crap & less tricks.

Would hash from large yielder be less potent than the small yielder?

Just the wild thoughts of a stoner

 

[Smokeone1]

This is a great thread!! I was thinking about this while I was driving. Like why doesn't og kush, buba kush......... yield high and the bad tasting strains yield low. Then I thought to myself that it would be to right and make sense.

 

[Mr.Jones]

sorry guys but northern lights is one the best tasting smokes there is. a lovely sweet hashy taste. must have been ditchweed NL you were toking.

... from what ive experienced the nl wasnt a good tasting smoke at all - i found it to be harsh without any real taste - but it was very strong

i think there are some strains which can combine those three to a certain level but they are rare ... from what ive experienced you just need a lot of seeds to collect from because there are phenotypes which can give you a very good yield and good potency - one example is the jack flash selection from europe - jaggen:

o and from what i read and heard its not big of a problem to break even gr./w or go even further up!
picture is stolen from Sideshow-Bob

 

[toasted1]

nirvana papaya has a good yield/taste/smell/potencey




stay safe
1

 

[titoon29]

Nice thread guys

With just yield & potency in mind i'd like to think of the bud as a balloon with a set amount of trichomes. When the yield increases (balloon blows up) and the volume of trichomes per square cm decreases. This may explain noticeably lower potency on high yielders.

very interesting guess ! ...

 

[KarMic]

I think yield must be bred for. At least the yields we are used to seeing. A plants that has five nodes on a length of stem will most likely yield less than a plant that make ten nodes on the same length of stem. If the breeder is looking for yield, he'll choose the plant with more nodes and eliminate the rest, even if the others had more potency or taste. That's why if you find that some modern strains lack in one the department or another, its probably because the breeder was looking to maximize a specific trait; he (conciously or unconsciously) eliminates traits from that gene pool.

I believe that high yield is a sign of stronger more dominant genes (at least reproductively speaking), simply because high yield means more flowers, which means that plant has more chances of making seeds, and thus reproducing more vigorously.

 

[reservationlabs]

Nothern Dreams

Nothern Dreams

A strain that I created called Northern Dreams was created for yield. I created it to come in under the limit of plants but still get a huge amount of weight.

No one that I know whom has grown it outside in full sun has gotten less then 3 pounds per plant. That is with them following my guide lines of planting in 45-55 Gallon Pots or Kiddie Swimming Pools, Fox Farm Ocean Forrest Soil, Perlite, A Bag of Bat Guano and A Bag of Chicken Shit. My biggest plant in a Kiddie Swimming Pool was 7lbs! (Photos in my Gallery)

It has Northern Lights #2 in its breeding. It doesn't taste the best, but it taste better then straight Northern Lights. I am waiting for some people on Icmag to do grow diaries with it.

If you are going for a HUGE yield then this or Williams Wonder is what you want. I personally can't take the high of the Northern Dreams that I created. It is way way way way too potent for me. I mean I smoke a ton of Trainwreck and Northern Dreams blows me away. So much so that I will never smoke my own creation ever again. (Check my Smoke Report on it)

Big Bud of which I am doing a lot of work with turned out to be a dud. It is big, weighs in heavy, but smells like Hay and Tastes like Cigarettes.