Strange Slime buildup on roots

[CrystalsCrystal]

the algae that is suffocating your roots needs light to survive... please read a couple posts up about how to rid of this algae. Where this algae comes from is a good question? your cities water supply? Or did your system get contaminated another way?

 

[richyrich]

I hope you take no offense, but you are teaching me nothing new. I don't know if you took the time to read through the entire thread, but you will see that I have posted extensively on this subject. You would of read that I have been using RO filtered water from my unit in previous posts and would not of posed the question.

More on slime algae

Nuisance slime algae is a problem in saltwater aquariums, particularly with new tanks where conditions will vary more than in a mature system. Usually the brown style is the first algae to appear, followed by a green slime. These are a Cyanobacter species of bacteria, not true algae, so lighting is of little importance. Sudden appearances in a well-established aquarium could be related to a decrease in metabolism in the competing organism caused by a decrease in intensity of older lights. Once again, replace the bulbs.

Even with our best efforts, sometimes the slime Cyanobacter will appear to take over. In that event, it is best to turn off your pumps, gently wipe the slime off the glass, gravel and rocks, and let it settle and siphon it out of the aquarium. There are "slime" treatments that will "kill" the Cyanobacter (active ingredient is erythromycin), and in some cases they will eliminate the slime. Remove the excess slime before treatment, and make sure the nitrate and phosphate levels are as low as possible.

What I have made in bold in the above read is what needs to be realized. This stuff is known as red or brown slime algae in the aquarium world. Real name cyanobacteria, so technically it is really a bacteria and therefore light is not a factor as in real algae, like the typical blue-green variety. What cyanobacteria like are organics and carbon dioxide.

I don't know if you read my case in point with the ez cloner because no light gets in there so point proven.

Another case in point: 55 gallon drum used as a resevoir painted black and wrapped with black and white poly plastic flooding trays completely covered. It still grew. Read the entire thread. You will find that I tried just about everything for 2-3 years as did Jarff.

 

[richyrich]

A few weeks back I posted that I was going to hit the hydro again. Due to some unforeseen things going on I have not been able to do that.

But, the idea I was talking about was similar to what aquarium enthusiast do. They have to cycle their aquariums for a few weeks before they add fish so all of the nasty bugs cycle out and the beneficial ones take over.

This is in line with what I read about bio buckets. What happens when we change our resevoirs every week. If a person did this with their aquarium every week their fish would quickly die. That is why I was thinking of going the add back route to my hydro resevoirs. I use to do that when I first began growing and my greens came out really good. Then I started getting all OCD on everything and buying into all the marketing suggested ways of growing. That is where I screwed up.

 

[richyrich]

This read is pretty good too.

Where do the Cyanos come from

Cyanobacteria are complex and not all "that" well understood to be honest. A lot has been written about them, but in terms of aquarium control of such algae there is little conclusive material.

In the greater majority of cases the nutrients these algae thrive on is dissolved organic material. Where does this material come from? It comes from the decay and breakdown of anything that is alive or once was alive in the aquarium.

Dissolved organic material. What do the enzyme products do? Exactly this!!!!!!!

Sources include (but are not limited to):

* Fish slime
* Invertebrate slime
* Other life forms in the tank
* Algae and bacteria
o dead ones or
o live ones
* Excrements
* Excrements that contain partially digested food
* Uneaten food
* metabolic and catabolic processes
* Material on rock
o Live rock and the life forms on it
+ alive
+ dying
o non live rock on which and in which some life forms exist that you may or may not see because the size may be real small (again these life forms may be alive or may be dying)
* Additives you use that are high in organic material
* Live foods
* and so on, indeed, this is only a partial list, but as you can see the sources are indeed numerous already.

When any of these start to decompose, break down is a better word really, organic compounds are released and mix with the water. These compounds then become the "nutrient source" that leads to the sudden appearance of spots of cyanobacteria. At first they are real small and may only appear in one or two areas. These spots quickly become larger and larger though if nothing is done to prevent this from happening. Suddenly they are visible in more than one area of the tank and are now large and distinctly unsightly. What is happening is that Cyanos are overtaking the aquarium because the nutrient levels they require to grow are now high.

Now you can see how we have concluded that enzymes like Hygrozyme and Sensizyme make a slime explosion happen even quicker. But, the marketing (advertising) will tell you that these products help keep the bad stuff away. Well in this case, it's like giving these critters speed.

So, for the people who have this and still want to do hydro, I highly suggest you get away from a recirculating resevoir. You need to go feed to waste. Or just go to dirt like me. I'm actually mixing dirt right now.

And do know that once you have this the reason it most likely keeps on coming back is because your grow room is now infested with dormant cyanobacteria spores. They are just waiting for your fan to kick them up in the air so they can go for a dive in your resevoir. They are so tiny that they are hard to see with a basic microscope. Do a search on these spores and then see how screwed you are.

 

[richyrich]

Here is a tid bit from Big Toke on his bio-buckets. You can see where I was going with my previous idea.

A brief description of the Bio-Buckets are as follows.

* Description – The Bio-Buckets is a Recirculating Hydroponics System, that exchanges the water/nutrients 7 to 10 times an hour in each bucket, depending on the size of your grow also consist of a remote-reservoir {separate} that is highly active that generates it’s own oxygen by water-fall.
* How it works – the Bio-Buckets work by using lava rocks as it’s media to harbor the live beneficial bacterium which lives in the pores of the lava rock.
* Benefits are – some of the fastest and healthiest growing plants that you have ever seen: uses no added air, and no reservoir change-outs, stable ph levels in most cases, and can run at higher temps than a normal hydro system, with no root-rot, I have been growing for little over two yours now in the Bio-Buckets and I have never had root-rot!! That means that you save tons of money remember what that was!! My friends that get my Bio-Buds can tell no different from soil, to my hydro Bio-Buds, just a better way of growing all the way around imo. One could say that it is the only hydroponics system that has an Immune System Anti-Viral Support Matrix.

I think the next time I attempt hydro I will incorporate some kind of medium in my resevoir for the beneficial bacterium to live in and only do add backs. No resevoir change outs except at the end for the flush. I will probably start off the resevoir with something like sub-culture for a week prior before adding plants. This would be like cycling a fish aquarium but jump started with the sub-culture (beneficials).

 

[richyrich]

I borrowed a picture posted previously by Get Mo and re-posted part of my post #260 to show the correlation of the picture to the description from a person I copy and pasted their experience with this slime from hell. Pay particular attention to the words in bold. It should leave you with little doubt. For those of you that have had it or have it, those words are gonna make you say that is exactly what I have been through.

Heres a pic:

 

[ItsGrowTime]

I wonder if anyone that uses RO water ever has algae issues. Im thinking the spores are in tap water, probably worse in some areas than others, and adding certain things to the water activates it. The iron portion above somewhat follows that.

 

[richyrich]

You must of missed my answer to CrystalsCrystal in post #262 just above. I use RO water that he/she missed or didn't read in earlier posts. I have went to the extent of buying a new RO unit twice and changed out the filters several times even on fairly new ones just to rule things out. I have even used my tap water several times just to see what would happen. I went tap sterile and tap beneficial and yes I bubbled the water before using beneficials. There really isn't anything that I didn't try. 2 years is a long time to try a lot of things. I had to just go dirt.

 

[richyrich]

Here is the very first post in this thread #1. Using RO water, perfect temps with a water chiller, using beneficials (hydroguard) and Hygrozyme. So what went wrong here? Well I know Hygrozyme or any other enzyme product is a super catalyst for the growth of the slime. But, how did this person get it in the first place? It's just a draw of the cards. As you have seen in my other posts and others it just comes out of no where.

I have a strange slime appearing on the roots of my plants (big bud). The slime is clear, and it is only on the very tips of the roots. The tip of the root turns dark brown and can be pulled off with very little effort. It isn't on all of the roots either, just some.
Setup-
20 gal DWC w/ RO water
pH 5.8
TDS 680 ppm
4 flexible air stones
Water temp between 64 and 69 degrees F
FloraNova nutes
Hygrozyme
Hydroguard
Even Keel pH stabilizer
Hydroton medium w/ rockwool

Here are a couple pics of what the slime looks like (All of the pics were taken 1 day after a res change):







This is what some of the leaves look like on the plant whose roots are pictured above. This plant is still showing new growth regardless of the root slime:




This is a picture of new root growth that has no slime on it at all and looks perfectly healthy.



Here is a plant that is in the same res as the one with all the slime on the roots. Looks perfectly healthy, shows new growth every day.

 

[richyrich]

Post #4, this person had it right on. When I was desperately looking for advice or any experience with this problem this was the only post and thread I could find. From then on, well you can just read the entire thread.

Dose it look like this?


this is after a couple of days, notice that the roots and slime are still somewhat white.



This is after about a week or so.

it starts off clear like snot and if not treated it will start to look like those pics, it turns brown when the roots start to die off. If this is what you are experiencing it is not root rot but a type of algae, that choke's the roots of your plants. If this is what you are going through the only thing I found that took care of the problem is Physan 20.
Hope this helps

 

[richyrich]

Post #8, the only other person who knew what was up.

Snowdog27 is spot on. I have had the same problem and Physan 20 is the ONLY thing that will cure it- it is algae.

 

[richyrich]

Post #10, this is a weird one. Using advance nute beneficial bacteria and fungi products and still got toppled by the slime. I have to share that one time I used sub-culture by general hydro (big dose of beneficials) and I got toppled to. That was way back in the beginning of my fight. Back then I didn't know that it might be wise to cycle the reservoir with beneficials before adding plants to the system. This is what I still need to try.

good post snodog27

the pics in this thread are exactly what my roots looked like when i used
AN's tarantula and piranah...and i had several bad grows that i attribute
directly to those products..
on my last grow with T&P ..i was still early in flower when the slime started up....believe it or not...i took my plants out of the unit and "washed the roots" in the tub under cool running water for about 10 minutes and quit using the T&P....the plants turned right around and i havnt seen a problem since.

a side note here....after i decided the T&P werent good for a hydro grow
I gave them to a friend who grows in soil....he had the worst grow ever..
idk if i got a bad batch or what...but i'll never use those products again

just my 2¢

mj

 

[richyrich]

Post #17, Hmmm...that hygrozyme again.

I have also been having problems with some kind of root slime. Mine is a darker brown but it's some type of slime nonetheless. My water temps are usually between 66-71F. The only thing I'm using is flora nova grow, the bottle of which was opened over a year ago. I first saw the symptoms when I was using my nutes + hygrozyme (also over a year since I opened it). I changed the nutes and this time just used my flora nova grow 1 part nutes and it started to grow back. I recently painted the buckets black to make them lightproof and it still seems to be slowly getting worse. I think I'm gonna try some of that Physan 20, and possibly buy new nutes. Anyone that has more info on what might be causing this would be greatly appreciated.


EDIT/UPDATE: I've concluded that this is NOT brown algae, this is root rot from not enough oxygen in the water (needed a better air pump).

 

[richyrich]

And here I enter at post #18. I could slap myself now. Hygrozyme!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And as you read through this you will see that I had used this stuff with no problems in the past. I just happened to finally get a bad hand on them cards.

A week ago, I had to scrap a grow that I was trying to save. I have been battling the rot for a long time. Its always there. I have the whole nine yards, chiller and all. I have use root exlecurator and hydroguard with good results, but its always around.

Now I think I may have been overwatering all this time. I use hydroton in a flood and drain every 4 hours. I have tried all variable hours of timing and cant get it right. Some say you cant overwater with hydroton, bullshit because I always get rotten roots.

So, get this. Last week I dose with hygrozyme to have the enzymes eat up all the dead roots (rot food). Two days later, my pH keeps creeping up and up and up. I check out my contiuous PH probe and its covered with this snot you guys are talking about. Thick snot, brown and clear. I lift out my pumps and the screens are covered with this shit. Two days is all it took. The only thing I did prior was add the Hygrzyme.

So, I start a new grow. Bleach everthing. Take apart pumps, new tubing, all bases covered. Using RO water and drum is light proof. Using a 55 gallon drum with chiller at 65 and light proof. Got an additional pump on the bottom of the res to recirculate and I have a huge air pump connected to it. My resevoir is churning like river rapids. Using only advanced nutes, no organics, and root excelurator, great stuff, and some hydroguard. Changed over to flood and drain 5 gallon buckets of new hydroton. Started flooding at every 4 hours, vegging still. Too much, develop some rot when I checked one plant. Now flooding every 8 hours, seems to be working. Well now I have some brown roots from flooding too often. So, to eat up the dead roots and deprive the root rot of food, I think to add Hygorzyme to eat it up. Today I check and that snot shit is collecting on my probe again. It just started collecting because I just added it last night and have been checking. My pH started to creep up again and I was like ahh shit, again. I have to do a flush and change out to try and save this grow now. I have used Hygrozyme plenty of times before without this happening.

What is up with this Hygrozyme. I have proven that it has caused this snot slime. And what is this snot. I read somewhere that it is actually a fungus.

I was wondering if Hygrozyme is organic in nature and if it gets ruined some how, does it help feed the rot since it is now inactive. I just bought this bottle two weeks ago from a busy shop. Can't figure it out.

Just changed the resevoir and added H2O2 and only advanced nutes.

Instead of the Physan 20, wouldnt the H2O2 kill off everything including this supposed algae.

I had a chiller set at 65, tons of bubbles and recirculation, lots of hydroguard, house and garden root excelurator, chemical nutes (no organics), all light blocked, room at 77 degrees, RO water. Plants that came from my veg room in absolute perfect health. Two freakin days this crap grew all over. How with all listed above. How can anything bad live in my sytems conditions. I put max dose of hydroguard. How can anything compete to live with that much oxygen and beneficial bacterias.????????

 

[GET MO]

anyone tried the fishtank algea killer stuff from wall mart? says it kills many kinds of algae, only like 5 bucks for a lil bottle...

 

[richyrich]

Yuppppp, I did back in post #41.

Here it is. The other stuff 'No More Algae' from Petco didn't do anything.




Physan 20 in action. Foams up like crazy. FYI, Triple Action is the same thing. It just has an anti foaming agent and is not available in CA.



I thought my system was clean, but knew it wasn't because of the pH creeps on RO water. Look at what the foaming action has brought up in just an hour. Behold, the hydro nasties are dying and surfacing when I couldn't see anything.

 

[richyrich]

I'll tell you right now that the Physan kills it. Look at the label in the picture above. The problem is not killing it. The problem is keeping it away. After years I have concluded that the cyanobacteria spores have made a cozy place in my bloom room and they are not going to leave. This brown algae slime is tenacious as all hell and when you get it you will always have it. You just never know when its gonna flare up. Just like someone with herpes. Hence, why I started calling it the HYDRO HERPE.

 

[richyrich]

And as I just remembered, I figured I would post it. To address the problems of the spores I even bought a strong ozone generator. From the research I did it says that ozone eliminates spores. Well I guess you all can figure it didn't work because I am still growing in dirt. Here is just a quick search I ran on ozone. If I could be growing hydro I would, but I trialed everything. No grower should have to suffer the misery that this will bring. To see your friends cropping and you crapping!!!!! And to boot, I set the friends up and no problems for them. It will drive you crazy. That is why I have posted all of my experience regarding this subject. As we have seen now, this has been happening to a lot of people and there was just no information out there on it.

Ozone
· Ozone destroys bacteria, mold, and mildew, eliminates spores, yeast, and fungus, and inactivates viruses and cysts.
· Ozone oxidizes and destroys oils and other contaminants in water.
· Ozone can significantly reduce levels of harsh chemicals such as chlorine and bromine.
· Ozone acts as a microflocculant aiding in the removal of minerals such as iron and manganese.
· Ozone is pH neutral. Adds no contaminants.
· Ozone leaves no unpleasant chemical taste or smell.
· Ozone dissolved in water will not irritate skin, nose, or ears, nor will it dry out or leave a chemical film on skin.
· Ozone can reduce chlorine or bromine consumption to a minimum, saving money on maintenance.
· Ozone does not affect the pH balance of water like traditional chemical treatment methods.
· Ozone is less corrosive than chlorine in water.

I went to dirt and thing are beautiful.

 

[bazooka]

Figuring it out

Figuring it out

Okay, this brown slime has plegged me since i started growing.

What I have figured out.

The last yr I tried to not flush (note: this is in my flower room) and only add water and nutes for 2 months. I didn't have a problem w/ slime but slightly decreased yield of course, but nothing compared to the the damage the slime did. Don't get me wrong i had gunk build up in the tanks. On the bottom mostly. Oh yeah, i am using organic nutes in a rec dwc. The other thing i did was not to add full nutes at once. gradually over a couple of days I would build up the ppm. I didn't have a problem w/ the slime. after 4 or 5 grows w/ only partially flushing between grows (leaving the bottom 2 inch's of water). Until the gunk on the bottom got so deep (1 inch) that I decided to scrub, vacuum and clean my tanks. I put tap water in let it ariate for a day then put plants in and 1/3 of nutes. the water turned opaque and almost viscus and slime covered the roots w/ in 6 hrs.

It has something to do w/ fresh water and no natural growth in the tank. Something blooms in the water because it is the only organic material in the tank to consume the nitrogen.

I can even add less nuts, say 1/10 and let this bloom happen in the water and it isn't enough food for the brown slime to really cover the roots. after a few days the water clears I can add nutes as normal w/ no more slime.

I bought physan 20 today for the first time. added 100ml for my 45 gal. I think i am under dosing but I want to start low. See if this keeps from stunting the plants as much as usual.

try it - only partially flush your tank and don't load up all your nutes at once. See if it helps.

-bazooka

 

[CrystalsCrystal]

OK RICHY your not alone... I've seen all those algaes in the pics and I too have an ez clone. I'm pretty sure the algae were seeing can be destroyed if ALL light is kept off the root or stem. ROFL if there was an algae that grew without light it probably woul'dnt be thaaat common so go buy a new 5 dollar bucket, buy some bottled water and new airhose/ airstone, buy new hydroton, and plop a SEED in there. I garuntee if you slip a black growbag under your roots if they start geting THIS algae it will go away... Wouldnt chlorine in our tap kill the algae in the tap? have you ever put a clone in your system? If so there ya go... As far as your white algae goes... It's a bitch and I'm sure it goes away if you take away its LIGHT!

O lets not forget UV sterilization or that thing that blasts a ray at your water and KILLS ALGAE... YA.. but like I said a 50 cent fix to the algae problem is a growbag over the exposed root..