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Tracking ISP's?
- Thread starter Pirate138
- Start date
MacrowaveOven
Member
I'll make it easy...THIS POST BELOW 
Don't pull elitist post count stuff, please. I'm not attacking you here, nor will I. And for disclosure, I'm JJJ. I'm not hiding, I'm just not allowed that name here for some reason.
You said USA or Canada. There are only a handfull I'm aware of in Canada, even fewer in the US. I also know you have a fixation with a certain site based in Canada, or did you forget the thread about IP logging started here about that? My inkling is you were speaking about that site due to the sudden disappearance of a poster I happened to like too, but I'll be happy to say it's purely circumstantial evidence (my inkling based on your cryptic comments here), which is to say speculation and not, therefore, with any authority.
But, immaterial really, let's not degrade the point I was trying to make, and you very well may not have been speaking about that site anyways.
As does our site and every other one I've frequented for this topic, in all points quoted above. My issue isn't with IC's intent, it's a fine site, and it has a lovely community that partakes in it. My point was to challenge what appears to be a leading statement you made:
Firstly, "overseas" is a very provincial way of saying it; very American that is. To a European it's not overseas, and we're actually the ones "over the pond"
Secondly, and let's face facts, this is a site that is paid for by a seed entity that ships to the US (this point was made at another site, but is still valid for this discussion I believe) which would indeed put it more on the radar than a site in the US or Canada that does not have any ties to seed dealing. Don't get me wrong, I don't have issue with that, I'm merely stating that if we're both going to try and make intelligent points to the viewership, and to assure them how safe they are here, but not, say, at sites in Canada and the US, this is a critical piece of information missing from your point. Is that fair to say? Yes, no?
Also, you didn't answer my question posed in my quote in your above post: "by the above logic (mad admin calls cops) wouldn't that still be possible by an Administration and site anywhere, and not just the US or Canada?
There are telephones these days, as well as computers and email. It is therefore possible, no?"
In light of these somewhat rhetorical questions, would it then be fair of me and others to suggest that telling people to use proxies is wise, and that to adhere to the rules of growing (i.e., no telling anyone, no showing in the real, no associating with questionable people, not trusting just anyone online no matter how nice they may appear to be, how honest they may appear to be, how helpfull and so on) is wise, but that perhaps, absent actual facts about busts and so on - which you yourself seem to be holding close to your chest but making large sweeping inuendo in doing so - is NOT helpful in an already cagy atmosphere?
Is there any gain, other than for yourself and this site (in your mind at least) to "warn" people to stay away from sites in the US and Canada? Firstly, wouldn't a proxy there, if it works here, work just as well? Secondly, wouldn't the argument I made above (seed selling connections versus non-seed selling connections in a site) negate the need to even make mention of "other sites"?
Again, I say this with respect. I'm not here to shit on IC, no sir. I'm not here to challenge YOU, but to challenge the input you made in this thread.
Also, it might make sense to understand the reach of both agencies and the current American attempts to create a nexus of terror and drugs.
Whether you think it's true or not is not the point, it is happening. "overseas" in a global world and economy doesn't mean what it used to.
And further, going into the dreaded PoM topic, wasn't the connection at our site trying to be made that he, a resident of the UK (ergo "overseas") connected to the DEA somehow? You can't have it both ways to suit the argument. It either is or isn't.
Finally, and I know I'm overstaying my welcome and belaboring the point, in our mutual interest in keeping our hobby and fellow hobbyists (and more importantly, the medically needy) safe and flush with green, doesn't it make sense to not add to the confusion and innuendo and deal with the base facts without introducing superfluous and somewhat frightening comments like "I'd stay away from the US and Canada"?
How many of us, from the US and Canada grow and will grow just fine even as we are part of these various internet sites? The answer is obvious in the numbers here and there and everywhere else.
Have a good evening, JJ.
(It is topical to the thread's original intent and has nothing to do with what comes after)
Please respond to this when you get a moment.
-=================
JJScorpio says:
B) Who's foolish? This post and the original (32) states CLEARLY who I am, genius. I'll even make it bold in this post.
STOP OBFUSCATING AND ANSWER.
Don't pull elitist post count stuff, please. I'm not attacking you here, nor will I. And for disclosure, I'm JJJ. I'm not hiding, I'm just not allowed that name here for some reason.
You said USA or Canada. There are only a handfull I'm aware of in Canada, even fewer in the US. I also know you have a fixation with a certain site based in Canada, or did you forget the thread about IP logging started here about that? My inkling is you were speaking about that site due to the sudden disappearance of a poster I happened to like too, but I'll be happy to say it's purely circumstantial evidence (my inkling based on your cryptic comments here), which is to say speculation and not, therefore, with any authority.
But, immaterial really, let's not degrade the point I was trying to make, and you very well may not have been speaking about that site anyways.
And that is to be commended.
As does our site and every other one I've frequented for this topic, in all points quoted above. My issue isn't with IC's intent, it's a fine site, and it has a lovely community that partakes in it. My point was to challenge what appears to be a leading statement you made:
Firstly, "overseas" is a very provincial way of saying it; very American that is. To a European it's not overseas, and we're actually the ones "over the pond"
Secondly, and let's face facts, this is a site that is paid for by a seed entity that ships to the US (this point was made at another site, but is still valid for this discussion I believe) which would indeed put it more on the radar than a site in the US or Canada that does not have any ties to seed dealing. Don't get me wrong, I don't have issue with that, I'm merely stating that if we're both going to try and make intelligent points to the viewership, and to assure them how safe they are here, but not, say, at sites in Canada and the US, this is a critical piece of information missing from your point. Is that fair to say? Yes, no?
Also, you didn't answer my question posed in my quote in your above post: "by the above logic (mad admin calls cops) wouldn't that still be possible by an Administration and site anywhere, and not just the US or Canada?
There are telephones these days, as well as computers and email. It is therefore possible, no?"
In light of these somewhat rhetorical questions, would it then be fair of me and others to suggest that telling people to use proxies is wise, and that to adhere to the rules of growing (i.e., no telling anyone, no showing in the real, no associating with questionable people, not trusting just anyone online no matter how nice they may appear to be, how honest they may appear to be, how helpfull and so on) is wise, but that perhaps, absent actual facts about busts and so on - which you yourself seem to be holding close to your chest but making large sweeping inuendo in doing so - is NOT helpful in an already cagy atmosphere?
Is there any gain, other than for yourself and this site (in your mind at least) to "warn" people to stay away from sites in the US and Canada? Firstly, wouldn't a proxy there, if it works here, work just as well? Secondly, wouldn't the argument I made above (seed selling connections versus non-seed selling connections in a site) negate the need to even make mention of "other sites"?
Again, I say this with respect. I'm not here to shit on IC, no sir. I'm not here to challenge YOU, but to challenge the input you made in this thread.
This is an interesting point, but I believe you're being naive. Firstly, the FBI has access anywhere it chooses. Think terrorism. The DEA tends to as well. Think Afghanistan and poppies or Colombia and Coca (nevermind it's failing and futile, this idiotic WOD).
Also, it might make sense to understand the reach of both agencies and the current American attempts to create a nexus of terror and drugs.
Whether you think it's true or not is not the point, it is happening. "overseas" in a global world and economy doesn't mean what it used to.
And further, going into the dreaded PoM topic, wasn't the connection at our site trying to be made that he, a resident of the UK (ergo "overseas") connected to the DEA somehow? You can't have it both ways to suit the argument. It either is or isn't.
Finally, and I know I'm overstaying my welcome and belaboring the point, in our mutual interest in keeping our hobby and fellow hobbyists (and more importantly, the medically needy) safe and flush with green, doesn't it make sense to not add to the confusion and innuendo and deal with the base facts without introducing superfluous and somewhat frightening comments like "I'd stay away from the US and Canada"?
How many of us, from the US and Canada grow and will grow just fine even as we are part of these various internet sites? The answer is obvious in the numbers here and there and everywhere else.
Have a good evening, JJ.
(It is topical to the thread's original intent and has nothing to do with what comes after)
Please respond to this when you get a moment.
-=================
JJScorpio says:
A) Free beans? Another deft sidestep toro.
B) Who's foolish? This post and the original (32) states CLEARLY who I am, genius. I'll even make it bold in this post.
STOP OBFUSCATING AND ANSWER.
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Rastanfisk
Member
YeaH Like JJScorpio 
Do It, Or Don`T 
Peace
Do It, Or Don`T Peace
MacrowaveOven
Member
My karma message from you didn't tell me anything either. It implies I'm getting canned soon. So be it. Reader's memory lasts longer than posts and usernames, big guy.
I take it you're not going to address my points above in post 32. I take it then that you're just blowing smoke up ICMagger's asses. You're not interested in truth or security, just making yourself look good and be a bigshot. I have nothing to lose. Do you?
Goodnight, good luck. Be well.
I take it you're not going to address my points above in post 32. I take it then that you're just blowing smoke up ICMagger's asses. You're not interested in truth or security, just making yourself look good and be a bigshot. I have nothing to lose. Do you?
Goodnight, good luck. Be well.
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Rastanfisk
Member
Enjoy life
JJJ, before I retire for the night, I have a couple things to say. First off, I'm really surprised you could, or would lower yourself to this level. I can remember a day in the not to distant past that you would have never been involved in something like this. Time changes a lot of people, huh? I'm also sure you must know about the two people that were arrested. If I know, you know. You also know there was a lot of tension between one of the banned members, and members of your sites administration. It's not a secret. Why play it off? If it didn't amount to anything, it would have just gone away. I mean this in a genuine manner. What the heck has happened to you?
I never said the site having the members arrested were from sites based in either Country. It was a generalization regarding what is safest. And you know a site in the US or Canada is more likely to get hit quicker than a site in a pot friendly Country. Nothing more nothing less. You had no idea what I was speaking of. As for my comments advising people to refrain from posting large grows at sites in the US and Canada, that's pretty much common sense. Now isn't it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there discussion at your own site about moving your servers? And I think it was done in a professional manner. Unlike what you have done here. Do you wonder why you were banned before? If nothing else, this should put to rest the false statements made at your site that IP'S are logged here. You and the other two are proof of that. I hope you at least let that be known at your site. It's time to put it all away.
I am genuinely saddened by this. For years you've been a constant of professionalism. I guess anyone can change. I don't dislike you, but I sure am surprised. Feel free to PM me if you would like to discuss this further, but I'm done with this. I'm just real sorry what I said was defended in this manner. I don't think I've said anything that's not true. And I really hope you don't get banned, but there's other ways you could have discussed this than to be involved with jamming my wife and kids and getting a kick out of those dilluted PM's. It just isn't you. We can continue this, or we can shake hands and move on, but it's not going to happen with your army of trolls being encouraged to come here and attack my family. Take care and good night.
I never said the site having the members arrested were from sites based in either Country. It was a generalization regarding what is safest. And you know a site in the US or Canada is more likely to get hit quicker than a site in a pot friendly Country. Nothing more nothing less. You had no idea what I was speaking of. As for my comments advising people to refrain from posting large grows at sites in the US and Canada, that's pretty much common sense. Now isn't it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there discussion at your own site about moving your servers? And I think it was done in a professional manner. Unlike what you have done here. Do you wonder why you were banned before? If nothing else, this should put to rest the false statements made at your site that IP'S are logged here. You and the other two are proof of that. I hope you at least let that be known at your site. It's time to put it all away.
I am genuinely saddened by this. For years you've been a constant of professionalism. I guess anyone can change. I don't dislike you, but I sure am surprised. Feel free to PM me if you would like to discuss this further, but I'm done with this. I'm just real sorry what I said was defended in this manner. I don't think I've said anything that's not true. And I really hope you don't get banned, but there's other ways you could have discussed this than to be involved with jamming my wife and kids and getting a kick out of those dilluted PM's. It just isn't you. We can continue this, or we can shake hands and move on, but it's not going to happen with your army of trolls being encouraged to come here and attack my family. Take care and good night.
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MacrowaveOven
Member
Lower myself? You're the one who's not being clear, we're just taking the opportunity during this brief moment before we get banned to press you on the crap you started through insinuation.JJScorpio said:
You're waffling again. Pass the syrup.
I don't know, I'm not privy to the talking points, JJ. If you know something, say it or keep your speculation to yourself. You brought this on yourself in pages 2 and 3, JJS. I have screen shots of it so when this thread goes the way of the dodo it will still be viewable.
I'm interested in the truth and treating our friends on both sites (and others) fairly. Primum non nocere.
??
You're seriously spending your time arguing about me and you rather than the topic of this thread that we've all since (yourself included, and started by you mind you) hijacked?
Firstly, you implied it. It's all there in the open on page 2. Secondly, it's a wrong generalization absent some facts, like seed dealing and non-seed dealing entities. You have to now refused to debate that point.
Based on what facts? The sites hit are sites selling beans to the US, nothing more. Emery, Heavens Stairway (and by association, OG). True or not?
Is that not an important point to understand and express to those worried souls who you were speaking to on page 2 with mock authority?
Sure, JJ, sure. Wink, wink. Then what site are you speaking of?
Is it? Again, based on what?
Not for that reason at all.
I don't wonder, truth and willingness to stand against censorship and crafted messages for the masses - being allowed what to say, who to say it to and more - is the reason I'm banned. Truth be told, you, Gypsy, OP and others were more than willing to let me be here when I had access to that forum and when that got blown into the open, suddenly I can't post here anymore.
See, JJ, you're not a good mouthpiece. Your points aren't valid, your logic is faulty and your facts are wrong.
If I was before, I am now. If I wasn't before, I'm not now. It's not up to me to defend my character, it's for others to see through post history and action. I am not here to be a bigshot, I am here to speak my mind and counter both false allegations and to challenge shoddy information (the reason I posted in this thread to begin with).
I can't PM, I don't have enough posts. I can't karma for some reason either. Of course you're done with this, of course you're going to turn it around on me because you don't have answers to my points either from 32 or onward.
You haven't shown anyone, here or there, of any actual arrests or reasons for it, you've merely speculated. And speculation is dangerous and one of the things we've all been fed up with both in the cannaworld at large and in the Seedwars shenanigans at PG.
I did not jam your wife or kids. You're (again) deflecting. Anyone with reading abilities above your own (and that's a wide swath, sorry to say, it's obvious) can see that. I asked you valid questions in 32 which you still won't address.
And as for you hating to see me get banned, somehow I think this too is an ingenuous statement. I have the karma page also on my disk, it belies what you're saying above - trying desperately to remain the JJS you want others to think you are; gentle, honest and above it all. With respect, that's bullshit.
I'm not encouraging anyone, in fact at PG I asked others not to post so as not to detract from my original points in post 32. Unfortunately you'll just continue to sidestep and act martyred, when in fact you're being more than a little dishonest here.
Again, I am not interested in slandering you...slander is unproveable allegations to hurt someone. Anything I've said today in this thread is easily verifiable or I've qualified it so as to remain above the fray of nonsense. I admit you're getting on my nerves, but then I should never have expected you to man up and be honest anyways.
Just because your eyes are closed, and your fingers are in your ears and you're shouting "nananananan" doesn't mean everyone else is. If you want to be the leader, and the big guy, walk the walk, don't just talk the talk.
Be well.
JJJ
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phatboyslim
New member
Threads starting to have that "UB" kinda feeling to it?
Jeez theres enough misinformation in this to float the titanic. For one I dont believe theres a judge in the world that will sign a warrant based on some turd admin from a website sending them an IP address with some anonymous user handle and some pictures off the internet. If they did that there would be court cases all over the place, past, current, and waiting to be tried. The fact that theres isnt any should be your first clue as to the validity of it all.
Last time I checked the only valid pictures allowed in court were accompanied by affidavits of the person that took the photos. Seeing how your not likely to skip your 5th amendment rights to not self incriminate the pics wont be allowed.
Which brings me back to the original warrant. What cop is going to look at some crap tossed at them from some website admin and then come to the conclusion that a crime is being committed in his juristiction? When any and all the database can be edited down to every last string variable whos to say the admins didnt completely doctor the info? What judge is going to be dumb enough to listen to the cop who got zero juristiction over the internet to give him a warrant for violating someones privacy first and then issue further warrants to get physical evidence? None Im aware of.
Then enough of the stupid notion that they're all going to work together outside 'the book' to nail some hobby pot grower. ISP's dont police because its not their job they could care less because theyre held exempt of any responsibility, they just provide the service and dont want to be sued because for every ISP out there theres a 100 lawyers waiting for them to violate someones rights so they can pro-bono the case and get rich/famous in the process.
Same with the cops they are stupid enough to risk a career in most cases to make a pot bust stick, especially when they know they have to take the stand with your lawyer.
99.9% of all the bust stories I hear are people that made mistakes one way or another. I have yet to hear the bust where they used a bunch of circumstantial evidence instead of physical evidence to get a warrant.
If JJS is right then these busts would be history in the making so Im sure we should be seeing stories about it in the news all over soon.
Last time I checked the only valid pictures allowed in court were accompanied by affidavits of the person that took the photos. Seeing how your not likely to skip your 5th amendment rights to not self incriminate the pics wont be allowed.
Which brings me back to the original warrant. What cop is going to look at some crap tossed at them from some website admin and then come to the conclusion that a crime is being committed in his juristiction? When any and all the database can be edited down to every last string variable whos to say the admins didnt completely doctor the info? What judge is going to be dumb enough to listen to the cop who got zero juristiction over the internet to give him a warrant for violating someones privacy first and then issue further warrants to get physical evidence? None Im aware of.
Then enough of the stupid notion that they're all going to work together outside 'the book' to nail some hobby pot grower. ISP's dont police because its not their job they could care less because theyre held exempt of any responsibility, they just provide the service and dont want to be sued because for every ISP out there theres a 100 lawyers waiting for them to violate someones rights so they can pro-bono the case and get rich/famous in the process.
Same with the cops they are stupid enough to risk a career in most cases to make a pot bust stick, especially when they know they have to take the stand with your lawyer.
99.9% of all the bust stories I hear are people that made mistakes one way or another. I have yet to hear the bust where they used a bunch of circumstantial evidence instead of physical evidence to get a warrant.
If JJS is right then these busts would be history in the making so Im sure we should be seeing stories about it in the news all over soon.
R
Reinhold
If they really want to get you they will.
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D
d4.
Rastanfisk said:
Enjoy life
What he said.
G
Guest
Sometimes I feel like Janus, with one face saying it's safe and the other saying it isn't. Where's that damn Jimny Cricket when I need him?
all this is why i just grow 1-2 plants at a time usually. upto 2 plants is considered personal use an for a first offence it would only be a max of 6 months probation an upto a $500 fine.
jeebus i really think this is goin into tinfoil hat territory. how much real violent crime is goin on? the cops are underfunded, the feds are worried about the big players, the local po' aint hi-tech, they got plenty of lo tech rats, and you cant rule out plain ol' stupidity.
how many people post on the net about weed? TONS. shit every time you talk about pineapple express, or cheech and chong, imagine filtering all those messages; and the 15 year olds who never toked postin for shits and giggles ... if it gets to where a judge signs a warrant based on someone posting on a weed website, its all over. people will have to decide and vote for the kind of society they want to live in, and people will not tolerate that shit, not in a democracy. people are already pissed, and you know, the gummint knows it.
how many people post on the net about weed? TONS. shit every time you talk about pineapple express, or cheech and chong, imagine filtering all those messages; and the 15 year olds who never toked postin for shits and giggles ... if it gets to where a judge signs a warrant based on someone posting on a weed website, its all over. people will have to decide and vote for the kind of society they want to live in, and people will not tolerate that shit, not in a democracy. people are already pissed, and you know, the gummint knows it.
Maybe you could use a firewall, I hear humans hate fire cuz it burns them.
Or you could buy a linux.
JK!
Use a proxy server.
Onto the next topic:
1 The pagefile of the server can log things.
2 If the webserver is anything good, then it error logs.
3 The router at the ISP logs traffic and where things are going. Request from this computer, send to that computer, this IP address to this IP address.
4 Your computer holds evidence of being on this site, and when you "delete things" it still holds the file but deletes the pointer file, but the file is still retriveable.
5 Certain cameras have certain files hidden in their photos that can be traced.
6 Using your same username as your yahoo account or any other email account that you used your real name OR real location in is just another way for them to investigate.
7 THE EFFIN GOVERNMENT DOESNT CARE THAT MUCH....about your precious little grows. The DEA is doing other crap, with bigger OPs. Other states don't go on here...out of jurisdiction.
They can't catch me tho, I have a methamphetamine intravenous and two pistols and phase change liquid metal that changes to solid when disturbed by bullets. Plus, the guns have lasers that track peoples eyes and burn them with the 500mW fury. Plus I have 20 trained cats with intravenous methamphetamine releasers that have 60 round per second BB guns attached to them and chainsaws for legs. Maybe not the last one
Or you could buy a linux.
JK!
Use a proxy server.
Onto the next topic:
1 The pagefile of the server can log things.
2 If the webserver is anything good, then it error logs.
3 The router at the ISP logs traffic and where things are going. Request from this computer, send to that computer, this IP address to this IP address.
4 Your computer holds evidence of being on this site, and when you "delete things" it still holds the file but deletes the pointer file, but the file is still retriveable.
5 Certain cameras have certain files hidden in their photos that can be traced.
6 Using your same username as your yahoo account or any other email account that you used your real name OR real location in is just another way for them to investigate.
7 THE EFFIN GOVERNMENT DOESNT CARE THAT MUCH....about your precious little grows. The DEA is doing other crap, with bigger OPs. Other states don't go on here...out of jurisdiction.
They can't catch me tho, I have a methamphetamine intravenous and two pistols and phase change liquid metal that changes to solid when disturbed by bullets. Plus, the guns have lasers that track peoples eyes and burn them with the 500mW fury. Plus I have 20 trained cats with intravenous methamphetamine releasers that have 60 round per second BB guns attached to them and chainsaws for legs. Maybe not the last one
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Sauron The Blue
Member
Maybe you could also use a firewall, I hear humans hate fire cuz it burns them.
rofl that was good... or buy a linux! lol your a funny one
i know a few people who have been busted by the feds and had their communications documented in great detail: emails, im's, websites visted and external IP traffic recorded. A lot of people these days are more worried about people being hired by the gov to circumvent your security, they can already upload software to phones allowing them to remotely turn on the speakerphone and listen in to what your saying even when the phone is off. and now with the pics of blackwater security doing mj raids, its a few clicks away from some badass electronic surveillance being put to use.
rofl that was good... or buy a linux! lol your a funny one
i know a few people who have been busted by the feds and had their communications documented in great detail: emails, im's, websites visted and external IP traffic recorded. A lot of people these days are more worried about people being hired by the gov to circumvent your security, they can already upload software to phones allowing them to remotely turn on the speakerphone and listen in to what your saying even when the phone is off. and now with the pics of blackwater security doing mj raids, its a few clicks away from some badass electronic surveillance being put to use.
I spend the $100.00 yearly.
10 different IP blocks in 7 different countries (USA, UK, Canada, Malaysia, Netherlands, Denmark and Germany). I can use all 30 servers and change your IP and/or country appearing to come from a different part of the world
We keep logs for a maximum of 5 days to protect the system from being used for abusive purposes. Official requests for information/subpoenas normally require more than 5 days. Usually it would take someone more than 5 days to even figure out where we are, and then serving a subpoena would require even more time. We have never actually been served with a lawful subpoena.
10 different IP blocks in 7 different countries (USA, UK, Canada, Malaysia, Netherlands, Denmark and Germany). I can use all 30 servers and change your IP and/or country appearing to come from a different part of the world
We keep logs for a maximum of 5 days to protect the system from being used for abusive purposes. Official requests for information/subpoenas normally require more than 5 days. Usually it would take someone more than 5 days to even figure out where we are, and then serving a subpoena would require even more time. We have never actually been served with a lawful subpoena.
