devilgoob said:
Whats better about them? When are the TFFC's coming out?
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HPS vs LED
- Thread starter clones-R-us
- Start date
Whats better about them? When are the TFFC's coming out?
knna
Member
TFFC technology flip the end position of the chip, allowing to save a previously required layer and more important, allowing to both electrodes to be mounted at the bottom, avoiding the need of gold thin wires to the top of the chip. It strongly enhance thermal dissipation (thus, led perfomance) and eliminates wires on the optical path. Aditionally, increases reliability of leds (top gold wires was prone to break as consecuence of thermal stress).
But AlInGaP leds arnt valid for this tech as it has been developed, AFAIK. Surely it could be done, but LED's manufacturers arnt interested on investing money on AlInGaP leds development, but all their efforts are toward dominate the white light market, and its of InGaN tech. Bulbs for domestic use is where is the big money, and its about white light.
Cree has reported lab efficiencies of 150lm/w, expected to be commercially avalaible on 1-2 years. Its over current HPS's efficiency, and much more if the HPS is reflectorized.
But dont expect huge improvements on red leds in the near future. Indeed, its probable efficiency of blue leds is going to surpass than the red ones pretty soon, specially in high power devices.
As informative note, the differents techs of leds are named depending on the dopants added to silicon:
AlInGaP stand for Aluminium, Indium and Gallium Phosphide and its used for yelow, orange and red leds.
AlGaAsP stand for Al, Ga and Arsenicum Phosphide, and its used for deep red and IR leds. Research on this tech almost stopped some years ago.
InGaN stand for In and Gallium Nitride, and its used on Blue, green and white leds (most white leds are a blue chip covered with phosphors).
eace: knna
But AlInGaP leds arnt valid for this tech as it has been developed, AFAIK. Surely it could be done, but LED's manufacturers arnt interested on investing money on AlInGaP leds development, but all their efforts are toward dominate the white light market, and its of InGaN tech. Bulbs for domestic use is where is the big money, and its about white light.
Cree has reported lab efficiencies of 150lm/w, expected to be commercially avalaible on 1-2 years. Its over current HPS's efficiency, and much more if the HPS is reflectorized.
But dont expect huge improvements on red leds in the near future. Indeed, its probable efficiency of blue leds is going to surpass than the red ones pretty soon, specially in high power devices.
As informative note, the differents techs of leds are named depending on the dopants added to silicon:
AlInGaP stand for Aluminium, Indium and Gallium Phosphide and its used for yelow, orange and red leds.
AlGaAsP stand for Al, Ga and Arsenicum Phosphide, and its used for deep red and IR leds. Research on this tech almost stopped some years ago.
InGaN stand for In and Gallium Nitride, and its used on Blue, green and white leds (most white leds are a blue chip covered with phosphors).
eace: knnaI really like the CREE stuff. At 150lms/w thats awesome. I think it is important to realize that LED technology is going exponential right now. If you watched the olympics opening ceremony u saw what is basically a showcase for LED technology. I think Cree has 30,000 LEDS somewhere in the olympics, maybe the swim cube. In any case the output 2 years ago vs. today vs. 2 years from now is amazing. I think many of the lights today are actually technology from 1 or 2 years ago. When todays newest LEDS get in grow lights in next 6 months/ 1 year I think we will see amazing stuff.
knna
Member
devilgoob said:
Not sure at all of that. All will depends of the relative efficiency of red and blue/white leds.
If those 150 lm/w equal to 55% of energy efficiency (cool white led reach about 280 lm per optical watt) and red led keep at 30% of efficiency, its going to be more profitable and easier to use whites. I hope red leds still continue improving efficiency, at least by increased chip size and thermal dissipation. Actual perfomance of red leds drops strongly with the increasing temp, while InGaN leds not, so how the system is designed has a very strong impact on final true perfomance, much more than spectrum considered alone.
And ill say it one more time: there is not "wasted" photons between the full PAR range, including green, but a somewhat reduced efficacy, and way less than most people tend to think. Statements about "wasted" wavelenghts are mostly marketing hype from led grow light's sellers.
Yep, blue and red are more efficient promoting photosynthesis, but its very far to conclude green is "wasted", cos it isnt.
Well, green grows plants, but not even close to nearly that rate of photosynthesis that you'll get by using red. White LED's are just full of green spectrum. Not "wasted" frequencies, but certainly not the most efficient. Like if you have 4 red LEDs and 1 blue + vs 4 red, 1 blue, and 2 green...my theory is that you wont get a 40% increase in yield, so better of stickin to red, blue, and UVA. Reason for UVA, I don't know, I saw a chart one time + superstition.
2
20kw dreams
Isn't UVB the UV that makes for the stronger plant/higher THC? I've never heard of UVA being beneficial.
Oh, I would include it for higher photosynthetic rate, not increased resin production. I need a job though and I have a stress disorder, dunno what to do about it.
*Finding chart*...ahh, it doesn't say it's specifically for weed, but that's why I said I am going to use it for superstition/inklings. Check it out though:
Photosyntheticallly Active Radiation Chart - wiki
Whoa, check this out too: Photosynthesis process
*Finding chart*...ahh, it doesn't say it's specifically for weed, but that's why I said I am going to use it for superstition/inklings. Check it out though:
Photosyntheticallly Active Radiation Chart - wiki
Whoa, check this out too: Photosynthesis process
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^bump
A guy by the name of ganjapasha or britishhempire had 3 plants growing under 46 watts and theyve already formed buds...good ones.
I wish that crap head would do a thread on his grow. Everyone doubts the technology of LEDs today and think the future of LEDs is coming...well it already came.
Here, I will take the time to upload his grow pics to this site.
Sorry for stealing these britishhempire!!!
46 Watts, three plants: purple afghan, a mexican strain and what he believes to be a hash plant cutting.
this isn't even the full area pictured, judging by the fans leaves on the left. these aren't even finished yet. the first pic is an earlier one, the second one represents how big the buds have filled out to.
A guy by the name of ganjapasha or britishhempire had 3 plants growing under 46 watts and theyve already formed buds...good ones.
I wish that crap head would do a thread on his grow. Everyone doubts the technology of LEDs today and think the future of LEDs is coming...well it already came.
Here, I will take the time to upload his grow pics to this site.
Sorry for stealing these britishhempire!!!
46 Watts, three plants: purple afghan, a mexican strain and what he believes to be a hash plant cutting.
this isn't even the full area pictured, judging by the fans leaves on the left. these aren't even finished yet. the first pic is an earlier one, the second one represents how big the buds have filled out to.
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jessebyeah
New member
Ha
Ha
I use a UFO with 600w of cfls in a micro SOG 12/12 start to finish. My yields are consistently 10-20g per plant. The LED stretch out the plants for some reason, which works out great really for my cfls to beam onto the exposed buds. Couple that with taking two new clone specimens whenever the room becomes available, and I NEVER run out of bud (which is badass white widow and Northern Lights, vary rarely I'll experiment by crossing the two but I've only had one successful cross and I fucked up revegging it after harvest . )
Ha
I use a UFO with 600w of cfls in a micro SOG 12/12 start to finish. My yields are consistently 10-20g per plant. The LED stretch out the plants for some reason, which works out great really for my cfls to beam onto the exposed buds. Couple that with taking two new clone specimens whenever the room becomes available, and I NEVER run out of bud (which is badass white widow and Northern Lights, vary rarely I'll experiment by crossing the two but I've only had one successful cross and I fucked up revegging it after harvest . )
jessebyeah
New member
Well, in all honesty you could replace the HID if optimum penetration was achieved. Procyon 100s from what I understand fix the UFO's problem of poor penetration, but depending on your space it might not be a viable option seeing as the ufo is smaller and better for my needs, but I never really see anyone go for anything but Arrays and UFOs
Knives
Member
hot debate on hand, heres my 2 cents lol.
I grow a 150wHPS and my buddy uses 170w+CFLS.
Same exact nutes, soil, even the same plant (clones).
basically, everything about our grows is the same, except the light.
well, after 3 weeks in flower, mine are looking like his were 5 weeks in.
then he got a 150wHPS like me and his buds fattened up almost immediately.
As for the LED's saving electric? i think a better idea would be to put
cheap CFL's around the house. But those of you who
ARE growing LEDS/CFLS, keep it up! You guys have dialed
em in to where they perform just as well
I grow a 150wHPS and my buddy uses 170w+CFLS.
Same exact nutes, soil, even the same plant (clones).
basically, everything about our grows is the same, except the light.
well, after 3 weeks in flower, mine are looking like his were 5 weeks in.
then he got a 150wHPS like me and his buds fattened up almost immediately.
As for the LED's saving electric? i think a better idea would be to put
cheap CFL's around the house. But those of you who
ARE growing LEDS/CFLS, keep it up! You guys have dialed
em in to where they perform just as well
FarmerGreen
Member
Also the more people that use the leds and perfect the technique, the more demand there will be, and the manufacturers will continue trying to improve them
jessebyeah
New member
I believe NASA is making strides in LED technology to grow sustenance for space mongerers, so most likely the manufacturers will improve their products based on that research
