MG Organic Nutes, Acidic?

[OneHit]

Ive been testing the run off of my plants and water. Tap water is 7.2 PH. WIth nutes its 6.5 PH, but when I test the run off from the bottom of the plants, I get 5.5 PH which is way to low.

Now I did the same test on just a mix of MG oragnic potting mix, and 25% earth worm castings on the run off. Still 5.5 PH.

Am I doing it wrong? Or is that just the PH miracle grow is. THe only reason Im using MG mix is because mandala's website said that it was a pretty good medium

Or am I better off with Promix?

 

[BurnOne]

OneHit-
Welcome to IC.
pH isn't a big factor in organic growing if you have the proper soil base that is full of bacteria and humus.
And, we don't use the MG word in here.
Check the STICKY "Organics for Beginners" at the top of this forum.
Burn1

 

[toodles]

I suspect I will get flamed for opening my mouth here, but why are people so obessesed with "runoff pH"?

Regarding an organic grow.....

If you have made your soil "properly"...like those Burn1 refers to in the sticky, and you don't put anything "stupid" in the grow. Why do you care what the runoff pH is? What are you going to do about it like in the fellow's example above?. His so-called runoff pH is 5.5. So what??????????????? You gonna tell him to top dress with lime? Mix up something alkaline and pour it on his soil? Or that good old standby people recommend when nothing else looks reasonable: Flushing???!! God forbid !!

Organic soil is incredibly complex. There is a lot going on there. Very complex reactions and biological activity are continually taking place. If you have done your job in making your soil properly AND...you have done nothing foolish to fuck it up. That is, you are feeding your soil with known, good organic nutrients, etc. The combination of soil biology and soil chemistry will take care of itself....AND your plant(s).

The goal of a grow isn't to have a fucking runoff pH of 6.5, 6.1, or (x) none of that crap.

Your goal should be make a good, healthy, organic soil and feed it correctly. Many like to say the pH will then "take care of itself". With respect..I disagree

The pH doesn't "take care of itself". The SOIL takes care of the pH because YOU did your job supplying the soil with all the things it needed. Fuck runoff pH.

How do ya like me now?

Toodles


SSH x SSH Day 56 of flowering

 

[OneHit]

Well, I thought run off PH was important because it tests what the soil's PH is. And PH is important to keep between that range, so it doesnt lock out any other nutrients, and the plant can grow to its full potential.

I would think that I made my soil properly, 75% MG Organic choice, and 25% worm castings. Anything I should add in there?

I just read the section in the sticky about PH. It said I need hummus, but that worm castings were a form of humus. So is that all I need to buffer the PH? Or get some actual humus?

What do you all like better anyways, Promix or MG Organics?

 

[Johnny Rotten]

"I don't know man, "faith growers" comes to mind. You only care to think that what your doing seems to be right because you followed directions & plenty of folks will back you up every Sunday. Folks dig your herb. Wtf we're doing is a key factor. The bottom line is, you're not sure without a meter & one day you'll come to grips with reality & look for improvement. You'll look to a pH meter with a couple of reference points- mark this, it's a fact. Until you go there you're not doing as well as you could. I won't say I told you so but I did."

Quoted as TRUTH from TOM HILL. You'll never know till you look.

Runoff PH gives us a true reading of soil PH. Yes, organic soil can have PH swings. I've seen my compost, pure humus, with a ph of 7.7....and other times it's at 6.5. Lots of stuff can go sideways and you'll never know without looking. I rarely check ph anymore but thats cause i know the parameters I operate under. If i were to switch something up, I'd start checking again.

BTW, I like your spunk, Toodles. Most organic people will agree with you here.

 

[toodles]

Hey Johhny!!

I guess I went off a little bit. Hehheehe.. I am serious about this issue. I think too many people goof themselves and their grows up by not knowing what they are doing regarding runoff pH.

One of the problems I have with runoff pH is as it is used on these forums is:

The consistency of measurements people make. If you don't measure it the same way every time, you won't get consistent results. Who knows how well and how accurate people are doing these pH tests. I come from a professional/technical background. Frankly, I don't know how well some folks here understand how to conduct these tests in a way that provides consistent, accurate results.

One reason that's important is everyone wants to predicate how they treat their plants based on their runoff pH measurements. Well suppose you don't measure correctly? And put some crap on your grow that didn't need to be there. You'll spend the rest of the grow putting one thing after another in an endless chase, trying to get your runoff pH to some particular number.

Now I'm absolutely certain, that a guy like Tom Hill is perfectly competent to measure pH and take the proper action. However, how many on these forums have Tom Hill's growing skills? Not very many in my estimation.

I keep coming back to good soil making. IMO....There are way too many people(new/inexperienced growers I'm talking about now) here who rush off to get a seed in the "dirt". They don't/won't read the Sticky Note before they begin. Two weeks into their grow they get these fucked up looking plants and cry for help.

I just made up some new soil(soiless mix) for my next grow starting here shortly. It took all of maybe 2 hours, and that includes documenting the whole process from beginning to end with pictures. 2 WHOLE hours. Wow.

Two hours may sound like a lot of work to some folks here, but my plants will be in this soil for the next 3-4 months. It's not much of an investment of my time to make my soil, and make it right. I know when I put my plants in this soil sometime in September. the soil will be right. And I know with a very high degree of certainty that I will NOT be having any pH issues.

If you are an experienced grower, this is probably making your eyes glaze over because experienced growers do a lot of what they do "intuitively". They don't need instruction, etc.etc.

New growers, and there are a lot here and more coming every day, need to do a little (maybe a lot depending on their skills and experience) research before they begin a grow. They'd save themselves a lot of hassle....and spare Burn1, Suby, Stitch answering a lot of unecessary questions.

And lastly, so Tom Hill and others don't think I'm nuts. Runoff pH does have its place in growing. However, in my humble opinion one needs to have some growing skills in order to both measure and properly interpret the results.

 

[toodles]

Well, I thought run off PH was important because it tests what the soil's PH is. And PH is important to keep between that range, so it doesnt lock out any other nutrients, and the plant can grow to its full potential.

I would think that I made my soil properly, 75% MG Organic choice, and 25% worm castings. Anything I should add in there?

I just read the section in the sticky about PH. It said I need hummus, but that worm castings were a form of humus. So is that all I need to buffer the PH? Or get some actual humus?

What do you all like better anyways, Promix or MG Organics?

You didn't mention "lime". That MG probably has "some" lime in it, but IMO, not enough. When you make your next batch, add 2Tbls/gallon of dlolomite lime to it. You also didn't mention perlite. Your mix needs to be about 30%+- perlite by volume. Good drainage is critical for a good soil mix. Follow the instructions in the Sticky Note for LC's #2 mix, the one made with potting soil like Promix. just substitue the MG mix you have in that recipe.

If you make your mix like those instructions say, AND feed/water correctly, your chances of having a sucessful grow will improve dramatically. That Sticky Note is there for a reason...As Burn1 says CONSTANTLY, those soil mixes have worked for tens of 1000's of people. Why people want to ignore what has proven to work is beyond me.

If you are an experienced grower, then you can feel free to "experiment". Newbies should be much more conservative in their approach to growing.

And I didn't mean to pick on you personally. You're in the same boat as a lot of folks on here. They just won't admit it.

Toodles

 

[stinkyattic]

MG Organic is just another peat-based soil mix and must be treated as such.

Extra perlite is really useful.
Don't pot into a container that is too large.
Re-pot every 4-6 weeks into a small step-up size container- like pint to quart to gallon to 3 gallon to harvest for example.
Humic acid and other organic acids can be your friend or foe, depending on how you manage things. Use them correctly, and you have a lovely buffered soil. Use them wrong (=without a good re-pot schedule), and they can bite you in the ass. Composted humus is a GREAT soil additive for a nice living, pH buffered soil.

But um.. don't forget to keep a good potting schedule!

 

[toodles]

Good point Stinky regarding potting up sequence. I'm a big fan of potting up like you do. I feel it helps build a much better root mass....but that would be "our" opinion, right? heheehe

" Use them correctly, and you have a lovely buffered soil. "
I agree, right on!!.

And right on about drainage and perlite. Poorly drained soil will become acidic more quickly. Soil that remains "waterlogged" too long cannot get Oxygen and "sours" becoming acidic.

Back to the grind

Toodles

 

[Johnny Rotten]

PH is just one of those things....but for a newb, I'd recommend the Lime and not to check PH, and hopefully they don't have problems.

Alot of people overdo everything and chase PH is circles. I'm of the less is more camp but there comes a point in your growing where you need to ask yourself if you really know what you are doing or are you just following someone else's advice. But, your variables could NEVER (YES NEVER!!) exactly be what that other persons are, so there comes a point that you need to take control of the wheel and steer the strait path, not rely on a backseat driver to do it for you.

If you have great results growing a no PH organic grow. GREAT. Would i suggest it to someone who really wants to know how to grow and maximize what he's got going. HELL NO. Just My Opinion, Of Course

 

[organick]

I don't have a PH meter but I do have a nose. If my run-off smells acidic (sour) and there is dolomite lime in my soil and dolomite in my tea, I sprinkle a little dolomite in my trays.
No lock out yet.
Johnny, you do your avatar justice.
This thread is about Miricle Grow, never mind, your screwed onehit. Miricle Grow is for poseurs. Not organic.

 

[toodles]

PH is just one of those things....but for a newb, I'd recommend the Lime and not to check PH, and hopefully they don't have problems.

Alot of people overdo everything and chase PH is circles. I'm of the less is more camp but there comes a point in your growing where you need to ask yourself if you really know what you are doing or are you just following someone else's advice. But, your variables could NEVER (YES NEVER!!) exactly be what that other persons are, so there comes a point that you need to take control of the wheel and steer the strait path, not rely on a backseat driver to do it for you.

If you have great results growing a no PH organic grow. GREAT. Would i suggest it to someone who really wants to know how to grow and maximize what he's got going. HELL NO. Just My Opinion, Of Course

Johnny

I agree with virtually all you say here.

To me it's a bit like "Paint by the Number". Following steps works up to a point, then you need to have developed some understanding of what you're doing (growing weed).
I see many on here who try to duplicate a grow they have seen. One of the problems is that their own grow circumstances may not, probably are not, the same as the grow they are trying to duplicate...as you point out.

Therefore, it pays to gain some understanding of how and why plants grow...if you want to improve your growing skills.

Toodles

 

[toodles]

I don't have a PH meter but I do have a nose. If my run-off smells acidic (sour) and there is dolomite lime in my soil and dolomite in my tea, I sprinkle a little dolomite in my trays.
No lock out yet.
Johnny, you do your avatar justice.
This thread is about Miricle Grow, never mind, your screwed onehit. Miricle Grow is for poseurs. Not organic.

hehehehehe,, aside from the MG comment

You speak of "sour" and I know what you mean.

You would agree though, that the chances of you smelling that sour smell are greatly diminished if you make a good soil to begin with and then maintain it.

That's not to say your soil won't grow more acidic over time...it does. One way I plan to keep that from happening is to recycle my soil and add amendments as I feel are appropriate....including lime.

I realize that in organic gardening that there are many ways to do all this stuff. My focus is on what advice I believe would work for the very new and/or inexperienced growers...wannabe growers planning grows. I would assert that they need to keep things simple. That's whY i would, if asked, recommend a simple basic organic grow the first time. Use one of LC's mixes with some simple amendments as listed just following the basic soil recipe. Those soils will work!!!!!!!!!!! I differ from some in that for newbies I would recommend a simple nute regime like PureBlendPro for soil. Will it be OMRI certified? Of course not. Who cares? If you care about that, my advice just isn't for you.

Newbies, in my humble opinion, need to have a simple grow plan to follow...the first time or two. Don't worry about yield. Worry about growing healthy plants. Yield will be fine. Later on when the "newbie" has a couple grows, he/she can try doing different things or do things in a different way. My baseball analogy for rank beginner/newbies is:

Don't try to hit a home run your first time up at bat.

Just go for a solid single. If you have some prior non cannabis growing experience, you'll find it helpful...shoot for a double first time up

Maybe I'll put all my rants on my own thread and leave y'all alone ?

Toodles


PS

When I say "soil" I mean soiless mix....just a pain to type that so much

 

[BurnOne]

I'll post this again...

Organic pH issues:
I hear a lot of people asking or talking about the pH of their organic soil mix or organic nute solution and how they might correct or adjust it. pH in organics is not an issue like it is in synthetic growing. The best place to settle the pH issues in organics is within the grow medium. A medium rich in humates (humus) is the place to start. Humates work to "buffer" the pH of organic mediums and the nutes you pour (or mix) into it. Humates come from compost, worm castings and bottled humus. If you use a peat based medum, use dolomite lime to raise the pH of the acidic peat. Dolomite should be used in any soil or soiless medium to provide magnesium and calcium. But since we are talking about pH here, I'll mention dolomite lime's pH correction benefits. A medium of coir has a pH near neutral (or 7.0). But humates are still neded to allow uptake of organic nutrients that are outside a near neutral pH range. With an active medium rich in humates you can pour in nutes like Pure Blend Pro, Earth Juice and guano teas way outside the optimum pH range without worry. The humus will allow the nutes to be taken up through the roots, even at such an extreme pH reading. So throw those pH meters away folks and enjoy the ease and safety of organic gardening.

Burn1

 

[OneHit]

Well, then is 25% earth worm castings enough humates? MG Organic Potting soil is compost it looks like. Is that fine then?

 

[BurnOne]

It's mostly peat. Use LC's mix recipe for peat.
Burn1

 

[OneHit]

Burn1 you seem to like the mixes alot, what do you think about mandalas website? Just telling you to use potting soil, and not too much perlite?

Though im confused how those are soiless?

 

[toodles]

Burn1 you seem to like the mixes alot, what do you think about mandalas website? Just telling you to use potting soil, and not too much perlite?

Though im confused how those are soiless?

Burn1 can answer for himself....but


IMO, Mandala is wrong about his advice regarding perlite....as it applies to most commercial potting mixes and the mixes many of us here make like LC's mixes. Maybe mixes in Holland are different?

A "soiless" mix is simply an artificial soil mix, usually composed of things like peat and compost. It is not "natural" soil or "dirt" as some people call it on these forums.

Burn1, and many others(me), like the LC mixes because they have PROVEN TO WORK time and time again for 10's of 1000's of people.

If you are a new or very inexperienced grower, you should begin with one of these mixes. If you make them correctly, and feed/water your plants correctly, your chances of a sucessfull grow are very good.....much better, FAR better than if you just "throw some stuff together cause you heard from your buddy it was a good recipe, blah , blah."

Toodles

 

[BurnOne]

I don't think you can make, buy or steal a better mix for growing our kind of plant than LC's mixes. Soiless means it contains no soil. It's peat (or coir), perlite, worm castings and dolomite.
Burn1

 

[TropicThunder]

I agree with the above. Don't worry to much about run off pH. If your plants are healthy and fine its nothing to stress about. If it ain't broke don't fix it!