Fogponics

[00420]

00420 and Liam

Since you already have a fiberglass mould, you should make me a carbon fibre reinforced coliseum, I can laugh manically as they try to cut it in half.

the prob with carbon is the cost...... $90 usd per yard it would cost close to 10 grand to do a 300 site...

with reg fiber it cost $1400 for a 300 site & three 120 site ez cloners
it took 14 8 hr days to build ( if i would have made 2 mould's it could have been done in 7)
i spent about $1000 in pumps foggers pvc net cups ect...

counting every thing including my time it cost what one dose to buy but i got 3 ez cloners out of it witch made it worth it

 

[german_aero]

Liam, don`t take it amiss, but your reasons for choosing droplet size < 20 sound unconvincing. You wrote "no ones proven where that threshold is", so you don't really know yourself if this is droplet size range is better. In my opinion you choose dry fog because it is easier and cheaper to generate than 50 micron droplets with special nozzles and high pressure air pumps.


HairlessCaveApe, I'm very interested in this documents, try to get them back, please.

 

[HairlessCaveApe]

oOOHHH I wish I could. Thats why Id realy like to find Lothar. He gave me these studies way way back round 02. Theyr what I used to identify the criteria I run my system at. I could tell you in about 1 paragraph what you gotta do to have a successfull aeroponic garden. I dont have the links anymore so I couldnt give you any referance as to the verocity of my information. But, the proof is in the pudding. ----Here it is in a nutshell. If you keep your mean droplet size at 50 microns and under and your root zone temps between 68f and 62f, youl be able to feed with an incredibly high ppm, if you use the rite nutes. If you keep these 3 main criteria in check youl bring your plants to a point where they can absorb incredibly high ppms and thats what you want. You want them to be able to process high ppm's. At the risk of bein flamed Im gonna tell you that I feed fresh inserts in my flower room the same formula I feed mature Flowers. I start everything in my flower room at 1800 ppms and they all love it. Im able to do this because I keep my criteria as I described above and I use the rite nutrients at the rite ratios. Thats the "trik" with aero. You gotta keep your root zone temps between 68 and 62, and you gotta keep your mean droplet size at 50 microns and under, and you gotta find a nutrient that works for the application. Solar Greenhouse nutes do the trick. Theyr powders too! -Aero with powdered nutes, at 1800 ppms. Heres some "puddin"











mMMMMMMM its GOOD!

 

[Liam]

german_aero: "so you don't really know yourself if this is droplet size range is better"

Well 'better' is always a matter of opinion, but if your goal is fuzzy roots, then dry fog is the only way to go.

In the end, I switched over to a perlite medium, which I preferred because it was low risk... by which I mean lower risk for my grow partner to screw up. He left the areoponic pump off once, the roots were like a straw broom after that.

 

[german_aero]

HairlessCaveApe, you mean 1800ppm for cuttings also?? Which EC conversation do you use? Yes thats nearly unbelievable, but I don't doubt about your skills. Could you say a few about your equipment for generating 50 micron droplets? which pump, wich nozzles?

 

[HairlessCaveApe]

HairlessCaveApe, you mean 1800ppm for cuttings also?? Which EC conversation do you use? Yes thats nearly unbelievable, but I don't doubt about your skills. Could you say a few about your equipment for generating 50 micron droplets? which pump, wich nozzles?

Hey Howdy GermanAero! 1800 ppm's for everything I put in the flower room. I put clones in after theyv been rooted for bout 2 weeks and veged for 2 weeks. So no.. Not 1800 ppm's for cuttings. 1800 ppm's for fresh rooted and veged clones that are one monthe from the cut. I root and veg in bubble bukkits. I only use aeroponics for my flower room. I use a Leader EcoPluss 240 pump along with Netafim Micronet foggers to get my fog so fine. Youl need a chiler too. I use an Arctic 1/10th hp to bring my fog temps down to where I likem. I dont go by rez temps at all. Only the root zone temps are important to me. I wouldnt think of switchen nutes either and I wouldnt know how to use anything elce in theyr place.




My roots are plenty "fuzzy" and thats not even what Im shootin for. Im lookin to grow out every Flower to its full genetic potential. Thats my goal.

 

[german_aero]

I`ve searched for the pump you mentioned. Thats a 1000W 3/4 hp, WTF!!! How many nozzles do you run with this pump on which area (size). Let me ask you again, which EC conversion you use in your meter, 0.5 or 0.7?

 

[HairlessCaveApe]

Howdy GermanAero. I run 4 Netafim Micronet foggers. One in each root chamber. Each Netafim Micronet has 4 nozzles on it. So you could say I run 16 nozzles with the Leader. I could prolly run 3 more systems just like mine along with the one I got and still have enoughf pump left to put a fountain in my yard with a 20' nute collum shootin outta it. You realy do need a good strong reliable pump like this. Also, I dont know what conversion my meter is. Its a Milwalky with the words "TDS Waterproof" on it. It also has T75 writen on it too. My pens not outta calibration. My former partner had an Oakton that read the same. I know its hard to believe but I do run these high ppm's. Like I said before, if you keep all your criteria proper and use the rite nutes your plant will be able to absorbe these high ppm's. Are you lookin to start up an aero system GermanAero? If you are, why dont you check out my Sugar Shack Junk Yard thread. If you want to do something like that I'l help you.

 

[german_aero]

I run a low pressure aero system, high pressure is too difficult at the moment. But I know that aero is the best system to get all power out of the plants and so I`m very interested in informations from experts like you. I have read the thread but I couldn`t find the info about your irrigation periods. What is your on/off ratio or do you use 24/7?

 

[HairlessCaveApe]

I run my pump on for 40 seconds and off for 3 minits. Those pictures above are the Netafim Micronets mounted in 48 qt coleman coolers. They make very beautyfull white fuzzy roots. The sweetest I ever seen. Not that Im a root freak or anything. Its just that I know that this leads to some beautyfull buds!

 

[german_aero]

I wonder how the differences in growth between big drops and optimum 50 micron in aero are. But I think nobody has tested it under same conditions. Two plants hanging in air completely, the first one get 50 micron fog, the other feeded top down by drippers or sprayers. Same nutes and irrigation ratios. The questions is if there would be a appreciable difference in growth. I`m not sure.

 

[HairlessCaveApe]

There would be a big differance. The plant with the 50 micron and under droplet size fog would grow like an aeroponicly grown plant, and the other would grow as an overferted nft plant would. The plant with the bigger droplet sized nute delevery system would die if fed nutes in the same concentrations as the aero plant. "Sprinkleponics" was a word coined by someone at OG. It mightta even been Lothar. I cant remember. But the word was coined to describe growing using a nute delivery system where the nutes are sprayed on the suspended roots regardless of the sprays micron size. In essence what you wind up with is an nft system-or "sprinkleponics". Heres whats up.--When a plant is grown aeroponicly it develops very fine roots with microscopic structures onem that resemble tiny tiny volcanos. These volcano shaped structures have little tiny holes inem just like real volcanos do. Your nutes have to come out of your foggers with a mean droplet size of 50 microns and under in order to drift and float into these little volcano openings that are on the root surfaces. This is the main principal of aeroponics, feeding the plant threw these structures.

 

[german_aero]

Very interesting, too bad that you have no sources for this volcano theory.
I understand that when the nozzles fog the water, the droplets have a 50 micron size when they are in the air. But after they reach the roots they build a liquid film around them, or not? And so it is IMHO a big droplet again. What you describe could I understand for dry fog, where the fog floats around the roots and build no right liquid film.

 

[HairlessCaveApe]

Very interesting, too bad that you have no sources for this volcano theory.

No offence taken but this isnt a theory. This was in one of the studies I read. I dont know if it was the coledge one or the nasa one. Its fact as proven by this study. As I said before I dont have links to either study anymore so I have nothin to show ya but I shurly wouldnt shitt ya. It also seems like your sugesting that you cant get effective 50 micron and under droplets without a dry fog machine. Thats just not true. My pump and misters make shure my roots get droplet sizes of 50 microns and under rite onnem and up theyr volcanos. Aeroponics was just fine well before dry fog machines came around. I just dont think dry fog machines are a good nute delivery system. Il tell ya what. I never had a problem with the Flowers commin outta my room. It took me a fyew months to dial it in. With the help of Lothar at OG and the studies he gave me. But once I dialed it in I never had a problem. It was all just understandin what you needed to do and doin it. Its not as dificult as folks make it seem. Like I said before. I can put it in a paragraph what ya gotta do to have a successfull aero garden. Keep your mean droplet size at 50 microns and under, keep your fog temps between 62 and 68, use a short durration timer to cycle your pump, and use nutes that are suited for aero. Thats it Brudda!

 

[german_aero]

It also seems like your sugesting that you cant get effective 50 micron and under droplets without a dry fog machine.

No, I know with the right pump and nozzles it is easy to get the 50 micron and I think dry fog machine are adverse. But I have problems with the imagination that the micron droplets "fly" directly into the roots.


Now I`m very confused, I`ve visit the netafim page http://www.netafim-usa-greenhouse.com/Greenhouse/p-propagation/p-Micronet-Foggers.php. You can read the foggers produce an average droplet size of only 90 micron with 60 psi. Your pump makes a maximum pressure of 116psi. You say you run four of the netafim quad foggers. So you need four times 60 psi = 240psi to get all nozzles produce 90 psi. But you have only 116! And that is only for 90 micron, so how do you get 50 micron with this equipment???

 

[HairlessCaveApe]

No, I know with the right pump and nozzles it is easy to get the 50 micron and I think dry fog machine are adverse. But I have problems with the imagination that the micron droplets "fly" directly into the roots. --I wish I still had the study but I dont so I cant actualy show it to you in writing. I realy dont know how to prove it to you either other than to say that I seen the study myself. Thats good enoughf in court except with shady caricters. You dont think Im a shady caricter do ya?


Now I`m very confused, I`ve visit the netafim page http://www.netafim-usa-greenhouse.com/Greenhouse/p-propagation/p-Micronet-Foggers.php. You can read the foggers produce an average droplet size of only 90 micron with 60 psi. Your pump makes a maximum pressure of 116psi. You say you run four of the netafim quad foggers. So you need four times 60 psi = 240psi to get all nozzles produce 90 psi. But you have only 116! And that is only for 90 micron, so how do you get 50 micron with this equipment???

It just dont work that way. You can run as many nozzles as you want of this type and it wont effect psi unless you actually exceede the gpm rating. I can run another dozen systems like mine without effecting the psi. Thats just the wrong math your doin. Cant you see that with that math youd need a pump for every 2 nozzles? Thats just a bad math formula your using. Believe me, theirs plenty gph and psi to get 50 micron and under fog outta the foggers. As a mater of fact, when I bought my foggers the person on the other end of the phone told me that the foggers actually produce a much finer fog than what the specs say. He assured me that even at under 60 psi these foggers produce a droplet size of 50 microns and under. As I observed my results, I never had any reason to disbelieve him. I have no problems getting 50 micron and under fogg outta my equipment. PS- Please look above in the quote. I commented in there and seperated my comment from the quote with Rastas.

 

[german_aero]

I did research and now I come to the conclusion you are right. I found a diagramm showing netafim foggers produce a micron size from 10-100, mainly around 50.
Sorry, yes that was the wrong math.

I read in another thread that you root in hydroton, why not rooting in fog? The advantages of fog for growth should be the same for rooting, no?

 

[HairlessCaveApe]

I read in another thread that you root in hydroton, why not rooting in fog? The advantages of fog for growth should be the same for rooting, no?

They root in 6 - 12 days for me in bubblers. I was always happy with these results. and If ya mean why dont I root cuttings and then put them into the net pots, the answers easy, I save a step this way. They root in the pots and theyre ready to go into the flower room without any transplantin. The plants go threw very little stress with this tek.

 

[Liam]

HairlessCaveApe:

1. Your roots are clearly coated with standing water, and I see no fine root hairs.
2. Fog is 40 microns and less ONLY, you are not 'fogging' at all.
3. LOWER ppm is the goal, not higher.
4. Lothar was in MY thread on overgrow.com learning about fogging from ME.
5. Your system is a great aeroponic system, but its not foggerponic.

 

[HairlessCaveApe]

Aye Carrumba! Now I got a trole. I never had a trol of my very own before. -----Response to #1- Or corse theirs drops of condensat on my roots. No shitt. But now my cameras good enoughf to see fine hairs on my roots with??? Theres plenty fine hairs on my roots, my system wouldnt be able to produce the Flowers it dose if their wasnt. //// Response to #2- My pump and foggers produce droplet sizes between 80 and 5 microns, 40 is between 80 and 5. //// Response to #3- Your wrong but youl never know it because your not capable of keeping your criteria proper and that wont allow you to feed at 1800 ppm's. If you keep your criteria perfict with aereoponic principles you can feed crazy heavy and enjoy phenominal growth. //// Response to #4- Your not and never will be capable of teachin Lothar nothin. Your not fit to tie his bootstraps. Like I said to you earlier, your like a blind man stumblin round in a briar patch. //// Response to #5- Well ya finaly got one rite. ------- Why doncha stop tryinna be an overeducated shitthead and grow some Flowers? The proofs in the puddin duche bagg. -Your not EVEN an overeducated shitthead, your just tryinna be. Im not gonna go lookin for ya or nothin. Im happy just to leave you allone. Your like dogshitt on my boot, Im happy to just wipe it off, I dont need to play with it. But if Im somewhere and your spoutin off ficticious shitt Im gonna say something if I care. Your fulla shitt! If you wanna impress your correctness apon anybody post pics of your grow. Beautyfull Flowers are hard to argue with. Postem!