New L.E.D. Arrays & LowRyder2
- Thread starter dav zap
- Start date
G
Guest
knna said:
The lights array I'm in the process of building is a lot more efficient than the clusterled unit which only consumes 43W of power from 32 LEDs. I'm using Luxeon IIIs driven at 3.7v, 1400mA for the red part of my light (620-645nm), Luxeon K2 high current Royal Blue LEDs driven at 3.7v, 1400mA for the blue part (440-460nm) and Luxeon K2 Warm White driven at 3.7v, 1400mA for the visible part, they are 3000K. All of these are pretty efficient, I'm getting 5.18w per LED and the LEDs aren't overdriven, they are within rated specs. I chose the Luxeons as they are the best bang for the buck right now and the most efficient too, their Rebels are actually the most efficient, but a bit more expensive. I have 10 reds, 5 royal blues and 10 warm whites for a total of 129.5W, that is about as powerful and efficient a DIY setup as you can easily make right now, it uses five 19.5v Dell Laptop PSUs to power five 1400mA constant current supplies, 5 LEDs per supply, each LED needs it's own pretty large heatsink when run at this voltage and current and I've come up an ingenious solution involving a lot of aluminium kitchenware from the local catering supply place, when I;ve finished building it I'll post a load of pics.
The other LEDs in my array are less efficient, simply because they are the only LEDs available in suitable wavelengths. The only far-red and near-IR LEDs available are those ones from Edison of some very expensive ones from Norlux. That is, unless you want to use 5mm units and I can't be bothered soldering a couple of hundred little diodes to a PCB. I could only find one place selling the Edison units and they are really cheap, only 3 bucks, but I don't know whether they are 650-670nm or 730-750nm, I bought 5 and a 350mA driver for them. The 5 IR LEDs only produce 4.2W at 2.4V, 350mA each, so nowhere near as powerful as the Luxeons, but until affordable high power far red LEDs become readily available, it's the best I can do. I might add another 5 of these LEDs later if I decide I need more far red. I'm waiting for the supplier to get back to me about what wavelength they are, I reckon I'll be able to tell when I fire them up as if they are 730-750nm there will be no visible light, just a red glow, the 650-670nm will produce some visible light.
UV LEDs are equally hard to hard, only Prolight, ACULED and CREE make UV LEDs, the ACULED unit is 4 x 1W and expensive, the Prolight is a 1W unit (at 350mA) and the CREE about 3W at 1000mA, the CREE being slightly more than twice the price of the Prolight. I am not sure whether I'm gonna buy 5 Prolights or 5 CREEs, I'm not sure whether 5W of UV or 15W of UV would be best. If I go for the CREEs, the total wattage of my 40 LED array when completed will be almost 150W and the array will measure 420mm deep and 850mm wide. Should be a best. As soon as it's finished I'll post a thread will all the details and pics.
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knna
Member
I agree with you on Lumiled being the best bang for the buck for northamericans, due they sell directly by its official distributor (Future electronics).
But dont think the K2 is highly efficient, as it doesnt. At least the typical bin served for reds (R, about 45lm at 350mA and Tj=25ºC). Similar to the LuxIII at tipycal bins. When you derate the light emission by junction temp, at only Tj=80ºC the output is 60% of nominal at 25ºC. And 80ºC of Tj is a minimun when you run them at 1400mA (3,7V*1,4A=5,18W*17K/W=88ºC over solder point temp, wich likely is going to be around 40ºC). This put junction temp at a level wich compromise leds duration and efficiency. I wouldnt run the reds at 1400mA, except if you are doing the array for experimental purposes and you dont mind a fast degradation. In fact, still 1A seems too much for the reds LuxIII (or K2, by the way).
You can run blues and whites at 1,4A without so much problems, but i think its still too much for leds running a lot of hours a day. Reducing to 1-1,2A seems a safer practice.
Think that always there is a trade off between initial cost and led's efficiency. The second determine what power savings you can achieve against HPSs, if any. With large HPS efficiencies around 35%, if you use leds with efficiencies below 25%, still with the spectrum advantage is very difficult achieve any power saving. And for sure any of the leds cited at the power you are going to run then reach a 25% eff.
In this sense, better than buying less leds and run them hard, its better invest on the highest bins avalaible. For example the S bin of red leds is about 40% more efficient than the typical R bin often served. This allows you to run them soft enough to not compromise led's duration and get similar light output than a lower bin running harder. Check what are the bins they serve you, specially flux bin and color bin (for reds, AFAIK Lumileds only serve 620-630nm dominant).
I wouldnt like to hijack more David Zap's thread, so if you want to talk more about this, open a thread and we can discuss these issues deeper.
David, your bud have a killer looking in the sense of lots of resin, but finally buds didnt fatten enough. I wonder how you can improve your results, maybe adding some white led bulbs?
Loking forward the weight report, and more yet, to the smoke report
But dont think the K2 is highly efficient, as it doesnt. At least the typical bin served for reds (R, about 45lm at 350mA and Tj=25ºC). Similar to the LuxIII at tipycal bins. When you derate the light emission by junction temp, at only Tj=80ºC the output is 60% of nominal at 25ºC. And 80ºC of Tj is a minimun when you run them at 1400mA (3,7V*1,4A=5,18W*17K/W=88ºC over solder point temp, wich likely is going to be around 40ºC). This put junction temp at a level wich compromise leds duration and efficiency. I wouldnt run the reds at 1400mA, except if you are doing the array for experimental purposes and you dont mind a fast degradation. In fact, still 1A seems too much for the reds LuxIII (or K2, by the way).
You can run blues and whites at 1,4A without so much problems, but i think its still too much for leds running a lot of hours a day. Reducing to 1-1,2A seems a safer practice.
Think that always there is a trade off between initial cost and led's efficiency. The second determine what power savings you can achieve against HPSs, if any. With large HPS efficiencies around 35%, if you use leds with efficiencies below 25%, still with the spectrum advantage is very difficult achieve any power saving. And for sure any of the leds cited at the power you are going to run then reach a 25% eff.
In this sense, better than buying less leds and run them hard, its better invest on the highest bins avalaible. For example the S bin of red leds is about 40% more efficient than the typical R bin often served. This allows you to run them soft enough to not compromise led's duration and get similar light output than a lower bin running harder. Check what are the bins they serve you, specially flux bin and color bin (for reds, AFAIK Lumileds only serve 620-630nm dominant).
I wouldnt like to hijack more David Zap's thread, so if you want to talk more about this, open a thread and we can discuss these issues deeper.
David, your bud have a killer looking in the sense of lots of resin, but finally buds didnt fatten enough. I wonder how you can improve your results, maybe adding some white led bulbs?
Loking forward the weight report, and more yet, to the smoke report
So you cut it one day and it's dry the next?
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Without properly drying your plant......you wasted your time for some inferior smoke(lowryder) which is not gonna even be as good as it could have been because you rushed the dry. Patience is a virtue dav zap. Peace DLB
DrLongbottom
DrLongbottom
hi there dr longbottom. Here is where this stuff is at right now, as is , like
they say with used cars. a very thin joint does the deed very up-beat like.
so if i did the better way that you described, maybe i could do half a joint,
which would be great. but i was in a hurry, and i've had the dehydrator for
a long time and know where it is at with me, which is acceptable. Thank-
You for at least presenting the better way.
DrLongbottom
hi there dr longbottom. Here is where this stuff is at right now, as is , like
they say with used cars. a very thin joint does the deed very up-beat like.
so if i did the better way that you described, maybe i could do half a joint,
which would be great. but i was in a hurry, and i've had the dehydrator for
a long time and know where it is at with me, which is acceptable. Thank-
You for at least presenting the better way.
G
Guest
That's not bad, of course, it's not a lot for 100w, but you've done a good job and being at the cutting edge of technology always has pitfalls. You've got a solid base to build from and I reckon abding more wavelengths is the way to go. Probably a few white led bulbs would be the best addition in terms of cost to upgrade your setup. They are becoming more commonly available all the time and es27 screw fitting par25 and par38 white bulbs aren't very expensive now. 11w ones aren't expensive at all and 3 of those would probably be a great upgrade to your setup.
The ultimate white upgrade for your setup would be to buy one of these 900 LED ceiling lights, they are warm white so will have a fair bit of far red which will make up for not having any IR leds in your setup, they are only 225 bucks and a massive 110w, so you are doubling your light output for a quarter of what you've already laid out, you could mount this unit to the roof of your grow then position the red and blue lamps around the edges shining in from the sides:
http://www.lck-led.com/product_info.php/cPath/99_100/products_id/291
Material : Aluminium
Size : W69.5 x H59 x D9.5cm
Emitted Color : Warm White
LED Q'ty : 900pcs
Beam Angle : 120
Voltage : 110v or 220v
Power : 110W
Protection Rating : IP20
Luminous Intensity : 13,500,000MCD
They sell 60-LED white bulbs for 9.95 too, but the ceiling light is five times better value for the amount of light it emits, if you can fit it in your space, I say grab one!
http://www.lck-led.com/product_info.php/cPath/99_47/products_id/211
The ultimate white upgrade for your setup would be to buy one of these 900 LED ceiling lights, they are warm white so will have a fair bit of far red which will make up for not having any IR leds in your setup, they are only 225 bucks and a massive 110w, so you are doubling your light output for a quarter of what you've already laid out, you could mount this unit to the roof of your grow then position the red and blue lamps around the edges shining in from the sides:
http://www.lck-led.com/product_info.php/cPath/99_100/products_id/291
Material : Aluminium
Size : W69.5 x H59 x D9.5cm
Emitted Color : Warm White
LED Q'ty : 900pcs
Beam Angle : 120
Voltage : 110v or 220v
Power : 110W
Protection Rating : IP20
Luminous Intensity : 13,500,000MCD
They sell 60-LED white bulbs for 9.95 too, but the ceiling light is five times better value for the amount of light it emits, if you can fit it in your space, I say grab one!
http://www.lck-led.com/product_info.php/cPath/99_47/products_id/211
JohnnyToke
Member
wow, im sorry dude. im nearly speechless. thats an expensive setup and a lot of time vested for a small bag of what looks like shake. 
wtf happened. I need to go back and read this thread from the beginning.
1 day from chopped to smoke sounds way harsh too.
im not sure if l.e.d. growing is going to catch on based on the results I have seen in several of the forums over the last 12 months.
grow on my brother. dont give up!
regards,
JT
wtf happened. I need to go back and read this thread from the beginning. 1 day from chopped to smoke sounds way harsh too.
im not sure if l.e.d. growing is going to catch on based on the results I have seen in several of the forums over the last 12 months.
grow on my brother. dont give up!
regards,
JT
JohnnyToke
JohnnyToke
The thread reads "manicured bud" - that ain't 'shake', jake. "Ready-to-roll"
is what it says. That means there ain't no twigs, stems, etc. People, this
guy is just a little flamer. He calls 38 grams from a dwarf plant a liitle
bag? I defy you to match the output. Go back under the bridge, troll.
JohnnyToke
The thread reads "manicured bud" - that ain't 'shake', jake. "Ready-to-roll"
is what it says. That means there ain't no twigs, stems, etc. People, this
guy is just a little flamer. He calls 38 grams from a dwarf plant a liitle
bag? I defy you to match the output. Go back under the bridge, troll.
JohnnyToke
Member
oh my.....well, me so sorry dude if you took my post as a flame and were offended. I did not resort to calling you any names (as you chose to do to me). I merely stated what I have read regarding l.e.d. grows diaries to date in this forum and others. your results pretty much mirrored the others i have read. no flames for trying. I was apologizing for you not getting better results out of your bud.
you can go and read all of my 144 post on this site and see that none of my post are flames.
I wont resort to name calling back to you as it is pointless and immature.
as I said in my first post which was intended encouragement, "grow on and dont give up" (translation: I hope you get your l.e.d.'s dialed in for better bud development next time) - I appreciate the kick to the balls for offering up some encouragement to you....I will try and not make that mistake again.
maybe you could be so kind as to enlighten us with a smoke report on your amazing l.e.d. grown fresh cut hay, my apology, my mind was thinking one thing and I thought I was typing another. I mean't to say lowryder 2 with the amazing quick dry and cure process
I bet it taste "so good"........
enjoy your harvest man and best of luck to ya. 
regards,
JT
you can go and read all of my 144 post on this site and see that none of my post are flames.
I wont resort to name calling back to you as it is pointless and immature.
as I said in my first post which was intended encouragement, "grow on and dont give up" (translation: I hope you get your l.e.d.'s dialed in for better bud development next time) - I appreciate the kick to the balls for offering up some encouragement to you....I will try and not make that mistake again.
maybe you could be so kind as to enlighten us with a smoke report on your amazing l.e.d. grown fresh cut hay, my apology, my mind was thinking one thing and I thought I was typing another. I mean't to say lowryder 2 with the amazing quick dry and cure process
I bet it taste "so good"........ enjoy your harvest man and best of luck to ya. regards,
JT
Ganja Pasha how come they don't list the Lumen output like it is on a HID? Luminous Intensity : 13,500,000MCD. WTF does that mean? Just as an example say a 400 watt HPS has 145,000 lumens. How can you compare that to 13,500,000MCD? It's nice to have a basis of comparison
G
Guest
1 candela = 1 lumen, mcd is millicandelas, 1000 millicandela = 1 candela so 13,500,000mcd is 13,500 lumens.
I have to agree with Johnny, a grand investment to end up with a bag of sub-par smoke is not really a good result. Different people have different standards, but to be happy smoking a low grade strain that you force dried in 24 hours then crushed up is really destroying the quality of the smoke in terms of taste and high, you really need to read up on proper drying and curing techniques. Even if you grow a plant perfectly, you can ruin the quality of the end product by not drying and curing properly. To get proper taste, flavour and potency you need to dry the buds as slowly as possible over many days, at least a week. Then you need to cure the buds for at least 30 days. This experiment is now completely null and void as there is no end product worthy of comparison, I'm not being harsh but come on, you couldn't sell that bag of shake to anyone I know.
I have to agree with Johnny, a grand investment to end up with a bag of sub-par smoke is not really a good result. Different people have different standards, but to be happy smoking a low grade strain that you force dried in 24 hours then crushed up is really destroying the quality of the smoke in terms of taste and high, you really need to read up on proper drying and curing techniques. Even if you grow a plant perfectly, you can ruin the quality of the end product by not drying and curing properly. To get proper taste, flavour and potency you need to dry the buds as slowly as possible over many days, at least a week. Then you need to cure the buds for at least 30 days. This experiment is now completely null and void as there is no end product worthy of comparison, I'm not being harsh but come on, you couldn't sell that bag of shake to anyone I know.
Ganja Pasha
Ganja Pasha
Your nose is too far up in the air. One thing at a time. I'm not scrutinizing the dollars like you are. There was a principle here that was met, to produce a good amount of good stone material by LED. That has happened And 38 grams from a dwarf is swell. No one is needed to consult with on what is stoned and how good it is, I'll be the judge of my pot and I say its damn good stuff. A skinny joint is my indicator. No I didn't get frilly with curing.
This was a bottom line motivation, produce bud. I wasn't here to talk about curing. You are welcome to do that. There aren't a lot of good LED grow shows, so this accomplished something. Not everything. Thank-You for your high standards. It is respected. Over 40 years of pot-smoking makes me a good judge and without you smoking my pot - of course your commenting on the quality is falacious. Question as to why on earth you would do anything so inflammatory.
Ganja Pasha
Your nose is too far up in the air. One thing at a time. I'm not scrutinizing the dollars like you are. There was a principle here that was met, to produce a good amount of good stone material by LED. That has happened And 38 grams from a dwarf is swell. No one is needed to consult with on what is stoned and how good it is, I'll be the judge of my pot and I say its damn good stuff. A skinny joint is my indicator. No I didn't get frilly with curing.
This was a bottom line motivation, produce bud. I wasn't here to talk about curing. You are welcome to do that. There aren't a lot of good LED grow shows, so this accomplished something. Not everything. Thank-You for your high standards. It is respected. Over 40 years of pot-smoking makes me a good judge and without you smoking my pot - of course your commenting on the quality is falacious. Question as to why on earth you would do anything so inflammatory.
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G
Guest
Let's be plain here, you produced a bag of rubbish, no bud will be good is speed dried and ground into powder like that. I'm through contributing to this thread as it's a waste of time talking to you if you consider that bag of crap a worthwhile end result. I just can't see what point there is to growing your own at all if you're gonna just turn it into schwag,you would have got a lot more than 38 grams of low grade schwag on the street with that 1000 bucks.
I'm speechless, all the money and effort but no clue at all and unwilling to listen, just a waste of space the whole thing.
I'm speechless, all the money and effort but no clue at all and unwilling to listen, just a waste of space the whole thing.
JohnnyToke
Member
im sorry but I have to chime in here again.
I don't care who grew it or by what method, there isn't a strain of bud out there that can smoke well or taste good after a 24 hour dry process with no curing. it will smell and taste like fresh cut hay. scientifically, it has too because its full of CHLOROPHYLL that has not been broken down. No oven, microwave, dehydrator, water method, car exhaust (im sure someone has tried it...lol) or any other 24 hour drying method someone can come up with will make fresh cut bud a superior smoke with great taste in 24 hours. thats just a bunch of BS so please stop embarrassing yourself further with these claims.
while we applaud your efforts to grow decent bud under l.e.d.'s, your results were well below average at best. with that being said, we do encourage you to continue your efforts in l.e.d. growing and hopefully you can get it dialed in for better results next time. while your thread was a good learning tool for this community, your short man syndrome attitude can use some major improvement.
if there is a next time, please take our advice and dry and cure your bud rewards properly. you will be much happier with your results.
regards,
JT
I don't care who grew it or by what method, there isn't a strain of bud out there that can smoke well or taste good after a 24 hour dry process with no curing. it will smell and taste like fresh cut hay. scientifically, it has too because its full of CHLOROPHYLL that has not been broken down. No oven, microwave, dehydrator, water method, car exhaust (im sure someone has tried it...lol) or any other 24 hour drying method someone can come up with will make fresh cut bud a superior smoke with great taste in 24 hours. thats just a bunch of BS so please stop embarrassing yourself further with these claims.
while we applaud your efforts to grow decent bud under l.e.d.'s, your results were well below average at best. with that being said, we do encourage you to continue your efforts in l.e.d. growing and hopefully you can get it dialed in for better results next time. while your thread was a good learning tool for this community, your short man syndrome attitude can use some major improvement.
if there is a next time, please take our advice and dry and cure your bud rewards properly. you will be much happier with your results.
regards,
JT
G
Guest
Johnny, that is exactly what I wanted to say, but I couldn't find the right words, I agree wholeheartedly with everything you say there man, you hit the nail on the head:
This sums up exactly what I wated to say:
This sums up exactly what I wated to say:
