Ceramic Metal Halide (CMH)

[simba]

floppy adv tech ships INTL>>

as far as HTG ballasts..
Not a Huge Concern.. the ignitor may need an upgrade.. SOoner than Later..

For those that are firing them up..
Dont Turn them on and off. that hurts bulb and ignitor..
If the power glitches thats one thing..
if you turn off. dont turn on for the Philips rated time limit (CMH are not Hot Restrike)

We have some of the best and Now Chitiest ballasts. and all of them don't fire the CMH at the same time Even the same bulb.. one time it will be instant next time it will take up to 10 seconds.. a few variables besides its mood play in..
with that said we know adv tech is starting to carry Venture and Possibly one other brand but not for a lil bit.. within that Ignitors and Caps...

there where a few Bad bulbs that slipped passed the tests However that has been corrected to the point NO bulb should Arvie Dead unless broken by shipping..
Testing as of Yesterday is now done with "TDC (HTG ballasts ignitors)" Ignitors to try to ensure the lamp will run.. with Low Uhmph Ignitors..

Remember folks ya also get a 1 year warranty on Philips CMH

with the philips cmh hps retro there is about a 2% bulb DOA rate.. Not bad.. within that some do require a bigger kick than some others IE the reason for using Low end ignitors to Test..

Vin No worries.

someone posted there layout Q 2 times. can you copy that to a PM to me..

 

[texasluv]

Simba- I have found that what you have stated about the CMH bulbs is correct, as usual. I bought a 400W horizontal bulb a few months ago and I love it. I have it on a light mover as supplimental lighting to my 2- 1000W HPS bulbs. Now the plants are getting hit hard with HPS lighting and have a mixed spectrum bulb moving back and forth over them. I've never seen my babies so happy!

It has been pointed out that the CMH does have issues firing back up after being off for less than 30 minutes. Anytime I have to manually cut my lights off in the room I have to disconnect the CMH ballast from the lighting controller when I turn them back on. I give my CMH at least 30-45 minutes before turning it back on because it wont fire if I dont.

Overall, the CMH is an awesome bulb. Its a little more picky with ballasts and hot-firing than a HPS but the end results are worth the extra steps.

 

[greenisgold]

Az - I understand your concerns about switchable ballasts being "out-lawed" but they are not going to be. Shit I have run switchable ballasts for years now without a hitch. Now I spend 60 bucks on a bulb that will not fire because of said "shitty" ballast and the parts in it. I also understand the cord length problem, but once again cord lengths are not a problem with other bulbs, and allot of growers have their ballasts outside their rooms. On the reccomendations of you and others I bought a venture ignitor which does not coincide with the internals of my cheap chinese ballast. Unless someone on this board can tell why the original ignitor has 2 wires and the venture has 3 and where I connect this said x3 wire, then I'm out another 40 bucks. And the hell if I'm going go out and buy another 400 watt ballast just to fire this bulb (the end does not justify the means in my case). What I'm getting is this, their should be some form of a sticky where it states that if a grower wants to use these bulbs they should a). Have a certain ballast b). A certain cord length c). Do not use a switchable ballast. etc....
And please do not think this is a bashing post because it is not. Looking at all the graphs this is by far a superior bulb, but unless I can figure the wiring out (which scares the shit out of me) then it's back to the eye blue for me.
By the way I do have a 250 watt cmh that is running on a PL ballast with a 15 foot cord and it runs fine-go figure.
Peace.

 

[JackOneill]

I am a HTG ballast user with a 10 foot cord I believe and it fires the CMH every single time without fail. Guess I just got a solid ballast. Sorry to hear about all the problems.

 

[simba]

grreen call or email who ya bought the bulb from...

the Higher end Switchable ballasts That are UL listed SHOULD Be Done Properly With HV-Pulse rated Switches connectors wire etc..
i shouldn't call things chity my bad..
the ballast to lamp length with HPS is not a big concern like CMH..

when hps fires it just needs a Long arc with no so much Uhmph..
when cmh fires it needs a short arc but with a Uhmph Kick..
and it just so happens that when you take a cmh retro white and put it in a hps ballast thats made for the long arc and run a short arc (CMH Retro) the math works out that when the arc shrinks the kick is boosted.. (that is the short non techy version)
The few times u use cmh you Shouldn't "cylce" the lamps just start using at min 12/12

Please Read the BOX that came with your lamp.. it talks about Letting the lamp cool etc and other good info.. (also on the PDF at adv tech site it has the minimum Cool times for each lamp) example a 400 requires 10-20 minutes to cool they are not meant as Hot-Restrike lamps Nor is HPS meant for hot restrike

unless you have a Dual Arc Lamp.. and thats 2 lamps in one.. Literly just one works at a time.(whichever fires up first is the one that runs, kinda simple then theres no energy for the other arc tube, and when the power glitches the hot arc tube takes more energy to strike than cool so the cool one fires.. and keeps going.> ()

WIth that said. thew few complaints/issues we see here are the Only complaints/issues with them..
in short im still recommending the HTG TDC Ballast.. for the price vs the FEW issues out there..
there only seems like allot pf issues cause the People that have no problems have no reason to say anything.. bad.. if that makes sense..
i think this also is the Support thread for CMH in general to.. not just showing the good
but with that it shows there very few issues in there grand scheme of CMH..
and as each issue arises they get delt with to try to prevent the same issue again.
as i said earlier to.. your cmh will not fire the same timeframe each and every time unless u are super lucky.. electricity is so unpredictable.. it will go from instant to 10 seconds as life goes on..

 

[Wedge Antilles]

Do you think with the CMH being on a timer it will mess up at all

 

[simba]

wedge, ya timer no worries.. just make sure timer is at least rated at 1000watt tungsten.
thats most any ways...
in commercial these are on timers and dusk to dawn sensors so your good with a timer..

 

[Guest]

greenisgold,

If I understand correctly you have an ignitor that only has two wires? That is most likely a pulse start metal halide ignitor or for a different format of HPS ballast. If you look at the PDF linked above from Advance all of the industry standard wiring diagrams for HPS/Halide ballasts are there. That may help you determine which ignitor you have. You do need a 3 wire HPS ignitor with a CWA core and coil. As I mentioned previosly, I do not use special ignitors. I just know that I use the highest quality components and build up myself. Never any trouble. The problem I have with off the shelf Hydro store ballasts is you can not guarantee the quality of components inside without opening (and voiding waranty) in most cases.

My dig on the switchable ballasts is that the core and coil design operates at a different voltage than a Halide requires and not only shortens the life of the bulb but in my reading of UL and NEC codes is in full violation. I could be wrong on that, but it is good to keep in mind that I helped a UL inspector certify some equipment one day and he was quick to point out that most UL listed devices are manufactured by a UL certified manufacturer that has boxes and boxes of "UL listed" stickers just sitting around and that not all stickered items are actually inspected.

I do not recommend ever running a bulb on the wrong ballast which is what you are doing if you use a switchable ballast for a standard type halide.

I have not meant to stir up hysteria about ballasts and such. I just wanted to point out that everyone's gear needs to be up to par before looking at the bulb as the issue. On the "hot re-strike issue": Don't turn your bulb off other than timer schedule or power outages unless to intend to keep it off for 30min at least. A good gauge for me is not to re-start until the bulb jacket and socket are at room temp and no warmer.

 

[FreezerBoy]

Unless someone on this board can tell why the original ignitor has 2 wires and the venture has 3 and where I connect this said x3 wire, then I'm out another 40 bucks.

I rebuilt my 150 hps twice. It started out with three pieces (coil, cap, ignitor) The first replacement had two. The last only had a coil with the other stuff "built in". I suspect the problem is in trying to mix and match different designs. An entire kit with matching parts can be had for $50.

 

[Guest]

Good call FreezerBoy.

 

[vindiesel]

seems like HTG ballast used ALOT more than agrostar, which is supposedely better, and only alittle more...i would go w/ agrostar but don't hear much at all on them.

 

[Greeseyder]

OK I've read alot of this thread & don't wanna sound like a bonehead but does Adv Lighting carry a 150w med base bulb? I looked on their site but it isn't very clear.....anywhere else to buy these bulbs?
Danke'
G

 

[vindiesel]

1 other thing, why do i read some use a CMH vertically...? why would u? most go horizontally. i guess i can see if using a bunch of lamps...

 

[FreezerBoy]

Vertical is commonly used for circular scrog, stadium or coliseum gardens where the plants surround the bulb. Note the bulb is direction specific. It will "work" the wrong way but, at the cost of shorter life span

 

[Guest]

I think they got the vertical on accident and tried it. It worked for them for a while but it doesn't mean going horizontal using a vertical would work. That is what I think you're referring to in this huge thread (which I have read all of).

 

[vindiesel]

me too, so when getting a CMH lamp, u need to be sure if it's for horizontal or vertical use....? gotcha.

what brand lamps u guys use...........?

 

[iLLperception]

Alright all, I took the plunge after reading through this thread and others for the last week or so. I just purchased a couple of the 400W horiz CMH bulbs. Going to buy me a couple 400W HPS ballasts and see what these babys can do!

Thanks for all the info and pics, and thanks for helping me empty more of my wallet

 

[floppy]

i have found a uk site that im sure sells these bulbs ballasts etc, but theres so many etc & i just dont know whats what. can one of you guys in the know link me to what in after please? 70W version.

http://www.bltdirect.com/products.php?cat=235&nm=Metal+Halide+lamps+Light+Bulbs

im thinking this:
http://www.bltdirect.com/product.php?pid=8404&cat=977&nm=Metal+Halide+CDM-T+70+watt+G12+942
& this
http://www.bltdirect.com/product.ph...=Tridonic+Digital+Electronic+Ballast+70w+CDMT

but im really not sure...

 

[greenisgold]

Hey all, thanks for the info. Before I posted I spent a few hours looking online and checking out ballast designs and how they are wired. They all look super easy when they are not switchable. Most switchable ballasts are just a hps ballast where they take out the ignitor using a switch to fire the mh side. My ballast has the core/coil obviously, 2 caps, not one that are daisy chained some how, an ignitor and a switch. I could easily take it apart and make it just a hps ballast, but I don't want to because I like having the mh side if I want it. And I do not have electrical skills to look at the way it is now and just say "well heck If put the x3 wire here all will be great!" I also tried to find the org. ignitor via manufacturer and part nothing and nada.
Oh well.
Good luck with all of your grows

 

[simba]

Floppy that ballast is fine but NO Way to those bulbs.. There not Philips And there Not Open fixtures Rated.. Wich is a HUGE FIRE CONCERN>.

you want to stay in the Philips Bulbs.. (the spd, life saftey etc all plays in)
YOu can find those i list above worldwide..


Medium Socket.. (this is what you should get Unless the fixture is rated G12 or Rx7 )
But Make sure its protected if the MHC

Green Contact your bulb seller about the ballast issue they will help you im sure

ya az as far as UL etc.. according to ANSI there is no HPS/MH combo..
wich is kinda funny that some do get a Real UL cert and others just slap one on.. IE THE CHINESE