Pops said:
Hey Pops, I don't know anything about those kits, but I'm a pretty quick Googler, lol. They seem to sell them here.
http://www.mindscombinedmedia.com/cannalyzer.htm
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Ruderalis can't suck forever
- Thread starter jomorning
- Start date
Hey Pops, I don't know anything about those kits, but I'm a pretty quick Googler, lol. They seem to sell them here.
http://www.mindscombinedmedia.com/cannalyzer.htm
G
Guest
Hi everyone,
I agree with the Skunkman about THC content. Not sure about him but I further believe that THC measurements are useless and only serve as a sales pitch for companies. Potency ratings to my knowledge, indicate absolutely nothing, except to the new grower that attaches some significance to them.
I truly believe that finding hasish that measured 28% THC would be difficult if not impossible. To suggest that bud could be that potent is unrealistic in my view. Never has been and never will be. Clearly from THC percentages listed by some banks, one can conclude that there is no relationship between THC content and potency whatsoever.
As for hybrid potency and ratings, I smoked strains years ago like gold and red lumbo and others which had a potency level thru the roof compared to many modern hybrids, and a level that I havent been able to replicate in any hybrid from any breeder.
These are my beliefs, but at least once in my life, Ive been proven wrong.
I agree with the Skunkman about THC content. Not sure about him but I further believe that THC measurements are useless and only serve as a sales pitch for companies. Potency ratings to my knowledge, indicate absolutely nothing, except to the new grower that attaches some significance to them.
I truly believe that finding hasish that measured 28% THC would be difficult if not impossible. To suggest that bud could be that potent is unrealistic in my view. Never has been and never will be. Clearly from THC percentages listed by some banks, one can conclude that there is no relationship between THC content and potency whatsoever.
As for hybrid potency and ratings, I smoked strains years ago like gold and red lumbo and others which had a potency level thru the roof compared to many modern hybrids, and a level that I havent been able to replicate in any hybrid from any breeder.
These are my beliefs, but at least once in my life, Ive been proven wrong.
S
SmokeMan
jomorning said:
Yes it will . And it has been done already. Mdanzig and JointDoctor have already made potent Ruderalis crosses with LR#2 & MasterLow PowerStout & BlueStreak.
And even now there is more and more potent autoflower crosses coming out of every corner of the globe. Trust me when I say this. Ruderalis aka Autoflowers are already making a very Big impact in the grow scene. Everybody seems to be getting the autoflower bug and now they are starting to breed this genetic with there favorite potent strain. So after alot of crossing and back crossing then inbreeding you can make any kind of genetic autoflower with some work and still keep that same tasting smoke but the only real difference's will be the lower yield & the shorter time frame to grow it ;-)
B
Bluebeard
dkmonk said:
I am completely astonished how little you guys acknowledge the accomplishments of the indigenous people of the world. Like somehow, despite having a history of cannabis cultivation that goes back thousands of years, their brains weren't equipped enough to pick up on things that people of european descent picked up in a decade. Do you really think that white people invented sinsemilla, or selective breeding?
First of all Colombia as in, the south american country, isn't spelled with a "U". Colombians have a lot to be proud of and some would not appreciate seeing how many misspell the name of their country.
Secondly, using your logic, there would be no such thing as domesticated plant species of any sort. Corn is a field grown, wind pollinated plant that is a completely different species than any of its wild ancestors. How was this change induced, if indigenous people were not capable of selective breeding?
Most potent Sativa drug cultivars can be traced back to India, which has been practicing sinsemilla cultivation, and selective breeding for thousands of years. Even aside from that, as much as I hate to admit it, all but maybe two or three western cannabis breeder's male selection techniques are in many cases no better than random pollination. Their breeding practices are almost solely based on female selection, and ineffective and frequently destructive male selection techniques.
Wallyduck, who in my opinion is a skilled breeder, once did an experiment where he found that using his male selection techniques, which are standard among the clandestine breeding community, he achieved results significantly worse than the same females pollinated by males selected completely at random. So, how is this better than selecting the best female plants from a field of seeded flowers? At least the indigenous growers were selecting their females from a very large population.
How do you explain the drastic decline in the pure forms of Skunk 1, Northern Lights, and Haze over the last two decades? I explain it by saying that the western breeding community is almost completely inept at sustaining the potency of a cannabis line without frequent and persistent outcrossing to new potent stock which was bred by someone else. This is mainly because male selection techniques are so incredibly subpar. When your selection criteria are poor, then no matter how much checking you do of offspring, it will take you years to go anywhere positive through inbreeding.
B
Bluebeard
Hey psychotropic, and Pops. Sorry for flogging a dead horse. I had already discussed this with pops, but I think it bears repeating. There is basically only one loci with genes making 3 primary genetic combinations that control whether a plant will produce more than minute amounts of THC or CBD, (there are some rare mutants of these genes but for the purpose of simplification we won't go into those). One gene is labeled Bt, the other labeled Bd. The Bt converts the precursor CBG into THC, and the Bd gene converts the same precursor into CBD. If a plant receives a BT gene from each parent it will produce only minute levels of CBD, and much more THC. If a plant receives a Bd gene from each parent, the opposite will occur. The THC levels will be severely limited and CBD will be much higher. If a plant receives a Bd gene from one parent and a Bt gene from the other, then the levels of THC and CBD will be roughly equal.
The reason why all of this is important, is because it shows that THC/CBD ratio is not very flexible. The only real possibilities for THC/CBD ratio are you either have up to slightly more than trace amounts of one but not the other, or you have them roughly equal. For example, there's really no such thing as a plant which is 10% THC and 2.5% CBD. You can only really obtain that ratio by mixing hash or plant materials. The other thing this shows, is that a 50/50 chemotype will never be true breeding. If you cross a 50/50 chemotype male with a like female, only half of the offspring will retain the 50/50 chemotype status, with 25% being high THC and 25% being high CBD.
The Hokkaido landraces from BCO are a good candidate, but still haven't been tested, so they aren't proven in their ability to produce CBD. It is very possible that they do, but until they are fully tested it cannot be said for certain. The best candidate which I am aware of that is currently in circulation is the Hunza valley indica from mriko. I have seen some pictures of some very resinous plants which were reported to have no high to speak of, which is a very good sign that it is a heavy cbd producer. it was also reported to be a roadkill skunk, lol and the plants are these beautiful green hulks. They are used for producing edible seeds in the Hunza valley and they are atypical for an indica or sativa, big bushy round wide leafed monsters. Mriko doesn't have the seeds to spare anymore but look around and see if you can find someone who grew them and propagated them.
There were a few other wild indicas which Mriko had collected that also are good candidates for CBD production. I will look around, too and send out a few pm's to let you know, pops.
The reason why all of this is important, is because it shows that THC/CBD ratio is not very flexible. The only real possibilities for THC/CBD ratio are you either have up to slightly more than trace amounts of one but not the other, or you have them roughly equal. For example, there's really no such thing as a plant which is 10% THC and 2.5% CBD. You can only really obtain that ratio by mixing hash or plant materials. The other thing this shows, is that a 50/50 chemotype will never be true breeding. If you cross a 50/50 chemotype male with a like female, only half of the offspring will retain the 50/50 chemotype status, with 25% being high THC and 25% being high CBD.
The Hokkaido landraces from BCO are a good candidate, but still haven't been tested, so they aren't proven in their ability to produce CBD. It is very possible that they do, but until they are fully tested it cannot be said for certain. The best candidate which I am aware of that is currently in circulation is the Hunza valley indica from mriko. I have seen some pictures of some very resinous plants which were reported to have no high to speak of, which is a very good sign that it is a heavy cbd producer. it was also reported to be a roadkill skunk, lol and the plants are these beautiful green hulks. They are used for producing edible seeds in the Hunza valley and they are atypical for an indica or sativa, big bushy round wide leafed monsters. Mriko doesn't have the seeds to spare anymore but look around and see if you can find someone who grew them and propagated them.
There were a few other wild indicas which Mriko had collected that also are good candidates for CBD production. I will look around, too and send out a few pm's to let you know, pops.
I know there are autoflowering strains like lowryder but I wasn't talking about hybrids. People grow pure indicas, I want to know what it would be like if there was a potent pure ruderalis.
If ruderalis is just wild cannabis, could a potent ruderalis be created by letting a potent indica grow in the wild for some time?
If ruderalis is just wild cannabis, could a potent ruderalis be created by letting a potent indica grow in the wild for some time?
B
Bluebeard
It depends on what you mean by ruderalis. If you mean it in the sense how most people use it, it means feral eastern european cannabis that triggers flowering based upon maturity as opposed to daylength, then the no, ruderalis isn't just wild cannabis. But if you mean it based on the russian definition of the work "ruderal" meaning roadside, the the answer is it is possible but not likely.
There have been reports that some indicas continuously bred for early maturation will take up an autoflowering trait, but they also almost always lost all potency. With cannabis, low potency is the default. Potency needs constant selection to maintain, or it reverts back into being typically no higher than 3-4% thc in climates which favor high potency and less in other climates. I have heard reports of indicas being bred to finish earlier and earlier taking on an autoflower trait, but not all cannabis is capable of this.
There have been reports that some indicas continuously bred for early maturation will take up an autoflowering trait, but they also almost always lost all potency. With cannabis, low potency is the default. Potency needs constant selection to maintain, or it reverts back into being typically no higher than 3-4% thc in climates which favor high potency and less in other climates. I have heard reports of indicas being bred to finish earlier and earlier taking on an autoflower trait, but not all cannabis is capable of this.
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in my statement in no way was i saying the indigenous people were uneducated or dumb. bluebeard my life doesnt revolve around cannabis although she is one of my loves so i am not gonna pretend that i know more about this then you but i will pick your brain.
1. when was the first known dates of cloning? because imho i think cloning is very integral to a breeding project. one needs a point of origin inorder to gauge advancement.
2. how would they know what plants are worth pollinating before a harvest? that is if they didnt take clones.
3. if they did have the breeding program you say they had, was it based on trial and error over the years or was it pure genious?
my thoughts are that sometimes people get lucky, i would like to think that cannabis was great and potent before the first humans got to her.
1. when was the first known dates of cloning? because imho i think cloning is very integral to a breeding project. one needs a point of origin inorder to gauge advancement.
2. how would they know what plants are worth pollinating before a harvest? that is if they didnt take clones.
3. if they did have the breeding program you say they had, was it based on trial and error over the years or was it pure genious?
my thoughts are that sometimes people get lucky, i would like to think that cannabis was great and potent before the first humans got to her.
Thanks, Bluebeard, for the info. Hopefully, the unworked Czech ruderalis/indica that British Hempire mentioned to me might be a possibility. It will just take growing out and sampling fairly large samples to find the pure CBD strains. If I had access to pure hemp strains, I might just grow and harvest that for a source of CBD, make oil and mix with oil containing THC. The Czech strain may or may not be auto flowering, but is not a factor to me. The search that Psycho and I are making just underscores the need for private seedbanks that are capable of saving landrace genetics. The medical community in America has been very hampered by having to do medical experiments with the crap grown by the U.S. government at U. Miss. I would imagine that there are a ton of genetics stored there ,if they got all the strains that the CIA collected over the years. Unfortunately, it may never be available to the medical community.
T
THCV
psychotropic, sounds to me like you want to grow hemp, not ruderalis. bluebeards genetic description is right on, and any strain that is specifically allowed for hemp cultivation is required to have such low thc that it really must be a Bd/Bd plant, and thus high in CBD. I would be impressed that anyone would risk jail to grow hemp, but hey, whatever floats your boat. maybe you can sprout some birdseed, lol (you can't, the hemp seeds are supposedly sterile).
THCV, perhaps you should look up the medicinal properties of CBD and find out why some of us would risk jail to grow hemp or a strain that has CBD. While CBD is not psychoactive, it is still illegal ,even though it has more medicinal properties than THC. I have a son who is dying of Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis(Lou Gehrigs Disease). If CBD from hemp or another source will help stop the muscle spasms he has, and help him to have a better life, then it is worth growing hemp and going to jail for it.
T
THCV
pops, if you read the previous threads mentioned here about CBD, you'll see i have a full appreciation of the medical benefits of CBD. In fact, i have tried to find the best CBD plants i could, based on theory and high experience rather than GC, so who knows. I just think that CBD and THC have many overlapping beneficial properties--eg both are potently anti-cancer, but CBD might be stronger--so i don't see the point in trying to find shwaggy hemp that will give you pure CBD if you can find tasty, well-bred, drug strains that have plenty of both. Then you get the benefit of the high--which is a HUGE component of using MJ for chronic disease depression, i should know. Not trying to be a jerk, but as growers we are all able to appreciate good smoke, and we'd probably all choke on hemp. I would mine the existing drug strains before going to ruderalis or hemp. The drug strains have higher overall cannabinoid levels, so if you believe that most of the cannabinoids have beneficial effects, then the more the merrier as it were, as long as you can get your good dose of CBD in there too.
Blackberry Kush seems to me a high CBD strain. It is incredibly frosty, but it is surprising how much body it has compared to head. Like, you feel a potent painkilling effect without being very high compared to OG etc. I sought it out because it is Bubba x (Blackberrry x White Rhino), and WR is specifically rated as high (1.6%) CBD, and Bubba has always seemed to have CBD in it to me, more painkilling bodyness than my other kushes. So BBK is kinda perfect, since WR tastes like crap. I would love to GC it, I have a friend with the gear but he is super paranoid so it'll never happen. Oh well, one day.
Blackberry Kush seems to me a high CBD strain. It is incredibly frosty, but it is surprising how much body it has compared to head. Like, you feel a potent painkilling effect without being very high compared to OG etc. I sought it out because it is Bubba x (Blackberrry x White Rhino), and WR is specifically rated as high (1.6%) CBD, and Bubba has always seemed to have CBD in it to me, more painkilling bodyness than my other kushes. So BBK is kinda perfect, since WR tastes like crap. I would love to GC it, I have a friend with the gear but he is super paranoid so it'll never happen. Oh well, one day.
THCV, sorry if I sounded a little pissy on my last post. It is incredibly difficult to find CBD levels on most strains, and the ones that I do find are generally listed as less than .1 or .2 %. Sam developed a strain that he says is 10.8% CBD. He didn't say what the THC was on it. It was developed for commercial use, so chances are, that we here in the states will never see it until some major shifts in policy have been made(that or some major pharma companies bribe a lot of politicians). you are correct that we would cough up a lung and a spleen if we had to smoke hemp to get our CBD, but if oil could be made from the resin, and mixed with oil from THC varieties, and then put in gel caps for consumption, you wouldn't have to worry about the taste. My son is so weak in his hands now that he can't even flick a lighter. Eating may be his best bet. Unfortunately, he is not in a medical state.
The high CBD strains that you mention may actually be high CBN. The commercial strains have basically had all the CBD bred out of them.
BTW, 1.6%CBD is high by Dutch standards, but very low for a medical variety. I see medical reports where they gave rats a dosage of 5mg/kilogram to get results. For a human you would need 400mg or more for the same dosage. You won't get that from a 1.6% strain.
The high CBD strains that you mention may actually be high CBN. The commercial strains have basically had all the CBD bred out of them.
BTW, 1.6%CBD is high by Dutch standards, but very low for a medical variety. I see medical reports where they gave rats a dosage of 5mg/kilogram to get results. For a human you would need 400mg or more for the same dosage. You won't get that from a 1.6% strain.
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lol, this is all about ruderalis and how it can't suck forever, sn't it?
Digress, digress
Digress, digress
T
THCV
sorry bout the digression, thought we all know the answer..."yes it can" lol
Other than stealth grows or possible med reasons,I cannot figure out why anyone would breed with Ruderalis. It has damned little to offer the average stoner. If you want a short plant, chop the top off a good producer and don't screw around with Ruderalis. Maybe I am brainwashed by all the lousy reports that I have heard about Ruderalis, but I wouldn't mess with it unless it had something positive to offer in the medical sense.
