Can any Breeder/pheno hunter explain to me WTF is going on??

[little-soldier]

One is you may be facing is phenotypic plasticity
Another option is maturity.

In terms of maturity - having bred for almost 2 decades I have seen how a plant changes dramatically after being alive for a while. Some plants dont really shine til they are vegging at least 6 months. The tricky thing is, when you take a clone, the clone will no longer mature. If your seed plant is 2 months old when you take a clone, even if you veg out that clone for 10 years, genetically its still only 2 months old. If you vegged both the 2 month clone beside the seed plant for a year, the seed plant would start exhibiting new features.
So, maybe your seed plant was maturing more than your clones and thus produced different chemotypes.

Then theres phenotypic plasticity. It could be that whatever youre using to clone or any difference in environment or foods is causing the differences.

Very interesting what you are saying here but if that was the case (plant maturity) then wouldn’t this problem be very common? I mean, next to no one grows seedlings more than 2 months because at that point plants are about 3-4 feet tall making most plants higher than most ceilings when done flowering. As for phenotypic plasticity, i always feed my plants the same food, my environment is on point and i tried cloning in rockwhool, then jiffy’s and now in turbo cloners and in the end, the final product is still the same disappointment.

 

[Lumpy-Gravy]

You’re ruling out everything lol … can’t be this can’t be that. Must be summat …

 

[goingrey]

Seedplants and clones from them do often turn out different. I don't know the reason why.

 

[little-soldier]

You’re ruling out everything lol … can’t be this can’t be that. Must be summat …

I go by logic dude, if it doesn’t add up then it’s probably not the case. Plain and simple just like math

 

[Paradox808]

These viruses & viroids don't always show signs of dudding. I've seen plants side by side with complete vigor, but one lacks smell. Same cuts

 

[right]

When you have eliminated all which is impossible then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

 

[Lester Beans]

I would bet some serious coin your flower room is hotter and more humid than you veg room.

 

[Thcvhunter]

I would bet some serious coin your flower room is hotter and more humid than you veg room.

Yup

 

[little-soldier]

Yup

View attachment 18898927

Yup

View attachment 18898927

That’s a heath robinson picture you just posted there

 

[little-soldier]

I would bet some serious coin your flower room is hotter and more humid than you veg room.

And your point is?

 

[little-soldier]

When you have eliminated all which is impossible then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

You’re not helping. my best guess and as was said before maybe 7-8 weeks from seedling plants are not mature enough to take clones.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Clones don't change unless your environment does.

I have cut meristem clones and I can tell you that it works, but you better have a bushy strain or pheno for it to work well.

Popping that top will definitely get you more game to play with...

No matter how long you have to wait.

 

[Hrpuffnkush]

Could be due to , if the seeds came from plants that were very healthy , the seeds will be very vigorus , as plant gets older cutting may be deficciant in a certian nute thats not quite found in nutes there getting now. plants do harden off and loose there green stalks and stems and hollowness wich affect the way plants take up food
Could be virus but that useally takes some time to express its self ,
unless the seeds had viruse in them , i think you would have seen it on mom thow..

 

[little-soldier]

Clones don't change unless your environment does.

I have cut meristem clones and I can tell you that it works, but you better have a bushy strain or pheno for it to work well.

Popping that top will definitely get you more game to play with...

No matter how long you have to wait.

How do you cut meristem clones?

 

[mean mr.mustard]

How do you cut meristem clones?

I realized that I could have been interpreted as conducting tissue culture but I meant taking the first main stem as a cutting.

I wait for two or three nodes to be established underneath the estimated length of the clone so as to facilitate a bush shape with the mother plant after I take the main meristem and the five inches underneath...

 

[linde]

I've found that every cut down the ladder loses a little something. Mostly in flavor. I try to keep my original mother going as long as possible before cloning clones. I've got a 5 yr old Larry Og that I've cloned clones a few times. It lost most of its flavor and vigour. Gonna seed her out and then be gone with her.

 

[Lester Beans]

And your point is?

That environment changes the smell, taste, bud density, everything. If you are seeing a difference from the same plant then it is environment related. Simple is that. Cool your room down and drop the RH and the plant should be like Mom.

 

[little-soldier]

That environment changes the smell, taste, bud density, everything. If you are seeing a difference from the same plant then it is environment related. Simple is that. Cool your room down and drop the RH and the plant should be like Mom.

I suggest you reread my initial post. I understand what you are trying to say but i have mentioned that once the clones are established they always taste the same and i have done multiple crops with them so it’s not what you think

 

[maryjaneismyfre]

Some plants are finicky when it comes to smell. I have a Banana Peel plant that doesn't always express it's banana flavor, only when everything's in balance. Even my cookies can be underwhelming when treated really bad, i.e. growing way under the canopy. But that's rare and shouldn't happen regularly with everything you grow.

Its viroid..100%. Why your plants taste better in the phenohunt and go downhill after..all those remarkable cuts one got over the years no matter the source were most likely infected. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

 

[maryjaneismyfre]

I suggest you reread my initial post. I understand what you are trying to say but i have mentioned that once the clones are established they always taste the same and i have done multiple crops with them so it’s not what you think

Many of those kept cuts that show good terps still run in and run out are those more tolerant ones. That is what they and we have seen in testing, with some leaf and petiole samples testing negative, low viroid levels up there, but test the roots..whhoa...Almost everything that goes around is infected. The way a plant gets finicky towards certain environments, viroid. Think about it, in summer here the sun kicks out over 3000ppfd at midday, the meters max out..but plants grow better, the temps hit high 30 celcius, and they thrive..its them outgrowing viroid to a degree. Do that indoor and they'd fall over, in afghanistan they live in desert climates poor soil, high PH8-10, watered once or thrice a season with a flood from irrigation canals, and hardly fed and they thrive 8 foot tall bushes of bud..why is our weed so weak ass.

Throw clean plants into any environment and they thrive, as there is nothing inhibiting their immune systems or hormone production, but hardly anyone has access to clean stuff to compare..

At low load, quality/resin/terps is not really affected so a tolerant cut could carry it for years before you see a dud, but yield always getting knocked at least 30% i see now growing clean stuff side by side with varying degrees of dirty...only once viroid levels get high to extreme does one see loss of quality, or terps, and at the extreme level, dudding. In a susceptible plant from the time of infection it could go downhill in 3-6 months to reach super high viroid levels, which is not enough in the run from seed to see it, but you'd see the next and next go downhill, in a more tolerant plant it would take a long time for the slide to become apparent and unless you got access to your clean cut again, or kept picture from the first run, you would not be aware as you'd be like a frog boiled slowly by slowly raising the water temperature so the frog don't notice.

This now in hindsight, is obvious to me.