Living organic soil from start through recycling CONTINUED...

[X15]

drainage at the bottom of an pot will reduce your soil volume, its that simple.
Ask nature if having gravel or stones in the ground creates a perched water table?

 

[chilliwilli]

Yeah I understand it’s dependent on the soil, there’s a huge variety of soil mixes being used….
But what I want to know… how Does water defy gravity and stay suspended over gravel or rocks With drainage holes on the bottom of the pot?

Yes to a certain point. It got sucked up by the capillary ability of the soil. Have u never watered a pot from below?
There will be a part at the bottom of the pot where the soil stays more moist because it holds on to the water and virtually nullifies the gravity.
The pic is not optimal but there is no water sitting in the gravel only whats stuck on it.

 

[X15]

Yes to a certain point. It got sucked up by the capillary ability of the soil. Have u never watered a pot from below?
There will be a part at the bottom of the pot where the soil stays more moist because it holds on to the water and virtually nullifies the gravity.
The pic is not optimal but there is no water sitting in the gravel only whats stuck on it.

Yeah but I don’t intentionally over water my pots to the point of that happening. If you max out the pots holding cap you will have those issues… having somewhere for that excess to go would typically help a newbie.

 

[chilliwilli]

Yeah but I don’t intentionally over water my pots to the point of that happening. If you max out the pots holding cap you will have those issues… having somewhere for that excess to go would typically help a newbie.

But it won't go there.

 

[KIS]

drainage at the bottom of an pot will reduce your soil volume, its that simple.
Ask nature if having gravel or stones in the ground creates a perched water table?

It happens in nature too. Not just in containers. It’s counter intuitive but a real phenomenon. Any 2 dissimilar layers. The capillary action of the media will pull water up until the force of gravity is great enough to pull it back down.

You can make water wetter or stickier too. It takes a little bit for these concepts to make sense. There’s some good videos on YouTube showing the phenomenon.

 

[X15]

It happens in nature too. Not just in containers. It’s counter intuitive but a real phenomenon. Any 2 dissimilar layers. The capillary action of the media will pull water up until the force of gravity is great enough to pull it back down.

You can make water wetter or stickier too. It takes a little bit for these concepts to make sense. There’s some good videos on YouTube showing the phenomenon.

A potted plant is nothing like layering of the earth. I understand capillary action of dif soils and media but I don’t buy your Potted Plant Water Table bullshit lol.
And no I’m not going to go flood my brain with useless shit on YouTube bc everyone else does. I’m a practical person. I’ve been growing plants professionally for over a decade and work with Mother Nature. I grow in potted plants too.
It takes more than rocks and some peat/coco to create a water table my friend lol.

Edit: Potted planters*

 

[X15]

You ain’t keeping it very simple lol.

 

[flylowgethigh]

It happens in nature too. Not just in containers. It’s counter intuitive but a real phenomenon. Any 2 dissimilar layers. The capillary action of the media will pull water up until the force of gravity is great enough to pull it back down.

You can make water wetter or stickier too. It takes a little bit for these concepts to make sense. There’s some good videos on YouTube showing the phenomenon.

That is how the SWICK works. You keep a wick like perlite wet on the bottom, the moisture migrates up above the waterline in the perlite making the top of the perlite moist. The bag of soil sitting on that moist bed of perlite wicks moisture up onto the soil. More 'drainage' helps the wicking action. The soil on top is dry, but scratch down a little and it is moist.

When I top water to feed in goodies, that turns upside down, and the hydrostatic pressure forces the water in the bag (saturated with nutes) down into the perlite wick bed. I want only water down there, so I drain the wick bed and refill it with nice aerated water of the proper pH after I top feed the bags. The water that is pumped out is brownish, and gets dumped outside on the garden.

 

[Bio boy]

That is how the SWICK works. You keep a wick like perlite wet on the bottom, the moisture migrates up above the waterline in the perlite making the top of the perlite moist. The bag of soil sitting on that moist bed of perlite wicks moisture up onto the soil. More 'drainage' helps the wicking action. The soil on top is dry, but scratch down a little and it is moist.

When I top water to feed in goodies, that turns upside down, and the hydrostatic pressure forces the water in the bag (saturated with nutes) down into the perlite wick bed. I want only water down there, so I drain the wick bed and refill it with nice aerated water of the proper pH after I top feed the bags. The water that is pumped out is brownish, and gets dumped outside on the garden.

Could the water not be re fed ? Like adding em1 and bubble it will Be microbe rich anyways , or would you class that as a salt runoff Your removing and possibly why I got salt buildup being unable to change water in my swick for 6grows , found a stick down there when it dryed out a bit crystals and I tasted it lol was like a chip shop so up the whole bed has to come again this end
I’m contemplating ditching the bed of 400l for smaller 50l sip pots hoping for more control beneath as that big bed once I place isn’t moving at all pfft I do like it but I will be able to space the room out more and have more crawl path atm the 1ft gap doesn’t accommodate my tits squeezing past ,feels like a catapult to the face once I get through ,

so tell me that will be a good move cause I’m back and fourth lol

so you say a perched water table is a swick system ? so Why is there warning agains it like kis said ? if you boys thrive with it

 

[flylowgethigh]

I give up with you. Good luck with whatever system you choose to use.

 

[Bio boy]

I give up with you. Good luck with whatever system you choose to use.

I’m going To be literally doing your system but manually as I can’t work out plumbing like you can, so I’ll settle for a small water pump i n each for out and hand water back in

I was only wondering the water you ditch if it could be recycled and used ,as a compost tea can be made with compost isn’t that what comes out the base of your pot when you water ? thebonly Reason I could see ditching it is salt buildup, so I asked

Explaining my system I know I have to you I was talking for others to hear, I have both systems as I have 2 grows one being in smaller fabrics the other in a big bed , and I’m swapping the bed for smaller pots the other is a swick but im Not happy with it as doesn’t look tidy in fabric pots on trays just better design

I haven’t done it yet as I am about to chop next weekon the bed and the other is about to flower
not trying to be aquard

 

[Slurreme]

View attachment 18825140

Now that’s funny

 

[Birmaan]

Hey, have you had any problems with the mulch layer? Is it normal that decomposition mould grows there or how do you handle it?

 

[X15]

Hey, have you had any problems with the mulch layer? Is it normal that decomposition mould grows there or how do you handle it?

That’s where a lot of the magic happens. I don’t like to disturb the layer. Things will decompose and the plant will have feeder roots close to the surface. So disturbing it could just set you back.

 

[Birmaan]

That’s where a lot of the magic happens. I don’t like to disturb the layer. Things will decompose and the plant will have feeder roots close to the surface. So disturbing it could just set you back.

I am more concerned about the spores being dispersed by the circulating air and settling in places where they don't belong. How high is your mulch layer and what does it consist of?

I have now chosen tropical white isopods as helpers.

 

[X15]

I am more concerned about the spores being dispersed by the circulating air and settling in places where they don't belong. How high is your mulch layer and what does it consist of?

I have now chosen tropical white isopods as helpers.

Yeah I feel ya on the spore thing. The reality is, there’s spores everywhere.… assuming the mulch layer is functionally healthy, the spores that are in that mulch layer are there bc that’s where they thrive,.. they are conducting tasks associated with the break down of the material that makes up that mulch layer. So think of it like a conditional thing. The spores need a certain environment to thrive. There’s a balance involved there… moisture, thickness of layer, frequency of freshly added material, type of material.. stuff like that will all impact the overall health and functionality of the mulch layer but back to your concern about stuff traveling around… I don’t think you need to worry as long as you keep your environment Naturally Healthy.
Keep your humidity in check and don’t over load your mulch layer with more fresh material than it can handle and things should pretty much be in cruise control, things will cycle.
That’s cool you found some isopods you can use. Let us know how that goes. I like isopods in my outdoor garden and hoop house but I am not so big on them indoors.
Indoor garden mulch layer I try to keep on the thinner side. I think of it more like a moisture and light barrier. I drop leaves from the plants as they grow and do a little at a time. I try not to load them up all at once but just lay down enough to create that light barrier. I grow a cover crop in my large pots before a cycle and let that crop break down on its own only cutting down and dropping what gets out of hand. I like to spread around some worm casting at the start and around the flip. Sometimes I’ll Spread some ground up Fenugreek and I always have a lot of daikon radish seed pods around from my garden, so I like to grind them up and use a bit. I also make my own plant ferments and I use LABs to help aid in the breakdown. I often ferment the same plants I’m creating the mulch layer with so they have a little aid.
Sorry for the long response!
I hope some of it is helpful.
Much Respect!

 

[Birmaan]

Yeah I feel ya on the spore thing. The reality is, there’s spores everywhere.… assuming the mulch layer is functionally healthy, the spores that are in that mulch layer are there bc that’s where they thrive,.. they are conducting tasks associated with the break down of the material that makes up that mulch layer. So think of it like a conditional thing. The spores need a certain environment to thrive. There’s a balance involved there… moisture, thickness of layer, frequency of freshly added material, type of material.. stuff like that will all impact the overall health and functionality of the mulch layer but back to your concern about stuff traveling around… I don’t think you need to worry as long as you keep your environment Naturally Healthy.
Keep your humidity in check and don’t over load your mulch layer with more fresh material than it can handle and things should pretty much be in cruise control, things will cycle.
That’s cool you found some isopods you can use. Let us know how that goes. I like isopods in my outdoor garden and hoop house but I am not so big on them indoors.
Indoor garden mulch layer I try to keep on the thinner side. I think of it more like a moisture and light barrier. I drop leaves from the plants as they grow and do a little at a time. I try not to load them up all at once but just lay down enough to create that light barrier. I grow a cover crop in my large pots before a cycle and let that crop break down on its own only cutting down and dropping what gets out of hand. I like to spread around some worm casting at the start and around the flip. Sometimes I’ll Spread some ground up Fenugreek and I always have a lot of daikon radish seed pods around from my garden, so I like to grind them up and use a bit. I also make my own plant ferments and I use LABs to help aid in the breakdown. I often ferment the same plants I’m creating the mulch layer with so they have a little aid.
Sorry for the long response!
I hope some of it is helpful.
Much Respect!

Ok, super thanks for your input, don't worry it can't be long enough

Very interesting, I think in this case I had too thick a layer and mulched leaf material unnecessarily.
The isopods should only like very warm temperatures, so I assume they will stay where they are supposed to be. I picked up the tip from another forum.

After the harvest I have now slightly dug up the top layer and scattered some seaweed and primary rock flour, and immediately planted the new cuttings, I have worms in the soil box anyway.

How do you ferment your plant residues?

Thanks again

Stay high

 

[X15]

Ok, super thanks for your input, don't worry it can't be long enough

Very interesting, I think in this case I had too thick a layer and mulched leaf material unnecessarily.
The isopods should only like very warm temperatures, so I assume they will stay where they are supposed to be. I picked up the tip from another forum.

After the harvest I have now slightly dug up the top layer and scattered some seaweed and primary rock flour, and immediately planted the new cuttings, I have worms in the soil box anyway.

How do you ferment your plant residues?

Thanks again

Stay high

Very nice. Sounds like you got things goin.
The castings I too dress with I mainly do because it seems to help keep gnat larvae to a minimum.
Ferments I use organic cane sugar and typically match the weight of the plant material to sugar. Then lately I’ve been adding some LABS, just a little, enough to kinda kick start things and it keeps the gnarly smells to a minimum. I store all my ferments in a cabinet in the house so keeping shit under control is important lol.
Make a good sugar cap and weight if it’s a fluffy mix like leaf material. Few weeks later If it’s lookin good I can isolate the liquids and feed the worm bin the spent left over material. I have an outdoor veggie and herb garden and that really gives me the opportunity to ferment a whole lot of different stuff… and I have lol.

 

[JKD]

Ask nature if having gravel or stones in the ground creates a perched water table?

 

[X15]

View attachment 18882792

Am I looking at the “Clay Layer” below the “Perched Water Table”.

Do you perched water table people go outside?
Your pseudoscience ain’t helpin anyone grow better weed.