The Haze discussion thread

[herbgreen]

That may be the way works in plants also Maybe there is something like that hempy

I am just chiming in because I remember that thread....Its a good one

 

[@hempy]

Its true for cannabis or for any species that uses a male and a female to reproduce be it dogs horses so on.

I find it very interesting you should do some research on it.

Males add some unique contributions.

 

[herbgreen]

Does a Male or Female Pass On More genetics to Their Offspring?

https://www.icmag.com/forum/marijua...ass-on-more-genetics-to-their-offspring/page2


female vs male influence


"Regardless if the female is Haze or Skunk the f1 hybrids express the same general terpene and Cannabinoids, I have made hundreds and tested them.

There may be sex linked traits but this has not been proven in Cannabis." -SamS


I think I know what you are talking about hempy but Thats for humans

Its maybe not the same thing for plants exactly?

 

[clearheaded]

How is it incorrect ?.

The Y chromosome is passed on without recombination, the DNA on that chromosome provides a genetic history of a man’s paternal ancestral line.

Do you know what that means ?. It means the male passes on a genetic history of a males paternal ancestral line.

Only Males do that.

Females dont.

Why Sam and Nevil both said use the Haze male to out cross with.

many reasons to use a HAZE male in particular. 1 get way more pollen vs calyxs/seeds over time. it would make zero sense to use a skunk male to haze female if making seeds for sale. also skunk or ghani cross produces less dudey micro seeds. larger seed means more energy faster initial growth aswell as ripen in a more realiable timely matter ie pistils come out a bunch at once vs haze slowly pops few out over months. now u know the reason, prob why were confused about using the male for traits vs seed production reasons..

 

[@hempy]

many reasons to use a HAZE male in particular. 1 get way more pollen vs calyxs/seeds over time. it would make zero sense to use a skunk male to haze female if making seeds for sale. also skunk or ghani cross produces less dudey micro seeds. larger seed means more energy faster initial growth aswell as ripen in a more realiable timely matter ie pistils come out a bunch at once vs haze slowly pops few out over months. now u know the reason, prob why were confused about using the male for traits vs seed production reasons..

The Y chromosome is present in males. females have two X chromosomes. The Y chromosome is passed on without recombination, the DNA on that chromosome provides a genetic history of a males paternal ancestral line.

That means the male passes on the genetic history of a males paternal ancestral line .

Male adds 49% the female adds 51% going by what i read.

The differences are the female dose not have a Y chromosome so that means the female can not pass on a genetic history of ancestral line that has not been mixed.

 

[harvestreaper]

The Y chromosome is present in males. females have two X chromosomes. The Y chromosome is passed on without recombination, the DNA on that chromosome provides a genetic history of a males paternal ancestral line.

That means the male passes on the genetic history of a males paternal ancestral line .

Male adds 49% the female adds 51% going by what i read.

The differences are the female dose not have a Y chromosome so that means the female can not pass on a genetic history of ancestral line that has not been mixed.

not trying to be ass,,but this dont make sense to me ,,, the y has already combined with an x to create a male,,, the dna already been changed ,,,,in this way neither x or y can pass on uncombined ,,so the y chromosome you referring to has already been recombined via its maternal x chromosome ,,,if you breed a 50 /50 cross back to one side of its heritage via the male the offspring most certainly do show an prove the recombination via the male ??

 

[SativaScience]

Nevil was who first told me about the males carrying the ancestral information.

It then made seance after i did a little research on it.

From what you have posted the ancestral information can only be inherited by the sons, so how does this correlate to using a haze male is best for outcrossing? Im only interested in making great daughters when i make a hybrid. If the ancestral info has no effect on the daughters than what makes a haze male better for outcrossing than a haze female? My experience has been that combining ability has mattered more than anything when making hybrids.

 

[@hempy]

From what you have posted the ancestral information can only be inherited by the sons, so how does this correlate to using a haze male is best for outcrossing? Im only interested in making great daughters when i make a hybrid. If the ancestral info has no effect on the daughters than what makes a haze male better for outcrossing than a haze female? My experience has been that combining ability has mattered more than anything when making hybrids.

The daughters inherit an x from the male also .

Using a Haze male to out cross is what Sam and Nevil have said to do and have done them self's. I didn't come up with it.

We are all after good female cannabis no ones after males to smoke i get that.

“What is the purpose of line-breeding? As soon as an ancestor is represented more than once in the pedigree of a horse, there is a higher chance that the autosomal chromosomes carry a higher percentage of DNA of the relevant ancestor. The object of line-breeding is twofold.One is to reinforce the same DNA of an ancestor in the new product, which increases the chances that the genes on the DNA will be expressed. The other is to unite as many different parts of the DNA of the relevant ancestor as possible. A sire and a dam each pass on fifty percent of their autosomal chromosomes to their product. It is therefore theoretically possible that an ancestor passes on two different halves of his autosomal chromosomes to two different offspring. When you unite these two different offspring, parts of the different halves of the DNA are united in the new product. This is important because the total of the DNA forms the basis for the various qualities of the relevant ancestor. The more different parts of this DNA are united in the new product, the higher the chances that it will have the same combination of qualities as the relevant ancestor.”

 

[@hempy]

not trying to be ass,,but this dont make sense to me ,,, the y has already combined with an x to create a male,,, the dna already been changed ,,,,in this way neither x or y can pass on uncombined ,,so the y chromosome you referring to has already been recombined via its maternal x chromosome ,,,if you breed a 50 /50 cross back to one side of its heritage via the male the offspring most certainly do show an prove the recombination via the male ??

The Father passes on the Y chromosome without recombination, the DNA on that chromosome provides a genetic history of a males paternal ancestral line.

One X comes from the mother one X comes from the father.

Since males receive an X only from their mothers, a male’s father cannot be an X ancestor. Consequently, a male’s father and all of his ancestors are excluded from the X genealogy (Figure 1). Therefore, females are overrepresented in the X genealogy, and as we go back in one’s genealogy, the fraction of individuals who are possible X ancestors shrinks. This property means that genetic relationships differ on the X compared to the autosomes, a fact that changes the calculation of kinship coefficients on the X (Pinto et al. 2011, 2012) and also has interesting implications for kin-selection models involving the X chromosome (Rice et al. 2008; Fox et al. 2009).

Unfortunately, the X chromosome is short, such that the chance of any signal of recent ancestry on the X decays rather quickly.

 

[Koondense]

I think it's not really about chromosomes really... more about practicality.
People grow females for smoking, faster flowering is preferred of course. Very few grow haze females so it's much easier and convenient to use a haze male pollen on a good female(proven and selected) than finding a good haze female(many many weeks) and dust her with a faster non haze male. The patience(and convenience) factor plays its part here.

Just an opinion of course.

Cheers

 

[CannaT]

If we know what is passed by male what is by female....cananbis seeds will be much more unified.

One male can be dominant in many crosses but on one female it not pass a trait....or traits that are very unvanted.

 

[@hempy]

I think it's not really about chromosomes really... more about practicality.
People grow females for smoking, faster flowering is preferred of course. Very few grow haze females so it's much easier and convenient to use a haze male pollen on a good female(proven and selected) than finding a good haze female(many many weeks) and dust her with a faster non haze male. The patience(and convenience) factor plays its part here.

Just an opinion of course.

Cheers

Chromosomes are thread-like structures located inside the nucleus of animal and plant cells. Each chromosome is made of protein and a single molecule of deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA). Passed from parents to offspring, DNA contains the specific instructions that make each type of living creature unique.

Science must be wrong.

There is nothing practical about growing long flowering sativas indoors or outdoors but people do it because of the high these plants produce.

There is a reason why Sam and Nevil told people to use a Male haze to out cross with.

I dont claim to be a geneticist but i research. I also pay attention to what people that have breed cannabis and have been successful at it have to say and then i go off and try to further understand what they are talking about before i dispel what they have to say.

Unfortunately, the X chromosome is short, such that the chance of any signal of recent ancestry on the X decays rather quickly.

 

[sbeanonnamellow]

Hey Hempy I think the advocation for using a male Haze parent is because of what haze brings to the table in a hybrid is well known (to Sam). Unrivaled potency and hybrid vigor. It's a way to theoretically "supercharge" everything in your library. Using various males to the haze females is much more unknown going on the realistic assumption that most are doing more work and observation with the female plants they are tending than the male plants. This is how I interpret it anyways.
Why Nevil advocated for using haze males I'm unsure, is it because that's what he heard from Sam too? I would still like clarification as to what Nevil actually got from Sam. In a line with a majority of plants being female, dude supposedly had three plants with 2 males. Those are some impressive odds. From what I have read, Nevil didn't breed the female haze plant or work with it. How would he know which are the best to use for breeding, males or females, when he only used a handful of plants 2/3 of them male.

You bring up sex linked traits in humans and I can not say what is correct or incorrect this is definitely beyond my current scope but I can't help but point out the mere fact that cannabis plants can be reversed quite easily, female plants turning male and male turning female. I know enough to say I don't know, but these are the things I think when these topics and conversations come up.

 

[bigherb]

Sbean

Nevil had 7 plants from the Haze seed from Sams but I understand and agree with your point .

5 females first Haze/ B/D/E and O
2 males of course A/ C

1luvbigherb

 

[CannaT]

best plants for breeding are those who pass in progeny the most caracteristics of parrents you want. If you have business like seed bank is and was you want to make production faster.

First Haze x NL1 offspring was done with Haze mother....next years was Haze father and NL mother....seeds were in high demand and having 5 vs 3 harvest is simple choice...

 

[bigherb]

best plants for breeding are those who pass in progeny the most caracteristics of parrents you want. If you have business like seed bank is and was you want to make production faster.

First Haze x NL1 offspring was done with Haze mother....next years was Haze father and NL mother....seeds were in high demand and having 5 vs 3 harvest is simple choice...

Nevil never offered Seeds using a Haze female commercially that was a typo Haze x NL1 . His seed bank offering was NL1HzC

He did cross the first haze female to ruderalis x NL1 x NL1 . But it was not sold commercially

 

[bsgospel]

Post 11364 (my quote function is screwing up.)

Hempy, what is that quote from? "Since males receive an X..."?

 

[Raco]

The mitochondrial DNA of haze females....

 

[@hempy]

The mitochondrial DNA of haze females....

hiya Raco it is an interesting topic once you dig down.

Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) has many special features such as a high copy number in cell, maternal inheritance, and a high mutation rate which have made it attractive to scientists from many fields. ... mtDNA is characterized by the high rate of polymorphisms and mutations.

Polymorphism, in biology, a discontinuous genetic variation resulting in the occurrence of several different forms or types of individuals among the members of a single species. A discontinuous genetic variation divides the individuals of a population into two or more sharply distinct forms.

 

[@hempy]

Post 11364 (my quote function is screwing up.)

Hempy, what is that quote from? "Since males receive an X..."?

The male adds 49% the female adds 51% the males inherits the x from the mother.

From what i understood is if the father passes on the X then you get a female with an X also coming from the mother.