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Hollow stems and why legal weed is disgusting

G

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Pesticides. Fake aromas. Mold. And "Other".

The 4 flavor categories of legal Cannabis.


"Other" in a commercial setting can only mean so many things. I always stayed out of the "flushing" debate simply because no one ever said it was N P or K causing the bad flavors. N levels correlate with metabolite quantity, I had always assumed N correlated with metabolite quality as well.

But then I remembered my foremost rule of growing: don't feed in flower. I like doing experiments that no one else does, so I decided to feed a bed in flower. Phosphorus is all it took to wipe out the natural strain smell of every strain and replace them with "dispensary weed" smells.

Not everyone needs to grow like I do to grow clean Cannabis, but in my region, Arizona, maybe they should. I don't believe it's phosphorus destroying the flavor of legal Cannabis. The bed that so readily abandoned its natural goodness within 2 hours of being fed phosphorus, the bed was very light on carbon. Every plant in that bed ended up with a hollow stalk.

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Hollow stalks are not a genetic trait
Hollow stalks, like all plant disorders, are blatant indicators of grower error. If you were to check, the plant did not have a hollow stalk while it was a seedling, and likely never in veg. The plant has scavenged material to build flower. Pith does not contain much N. Flower does not need much N. What flower needs is carbon. Pith is mostly carbon. When a plant cannibalizes itself, you have problems. In the case that a plant has cannibalized its pith, it is severely behind in co2 fixation.

So what does carbon deficiency have to do with flavor? These commercial grows run as cheaply as possible. The temps have got to be high, and no one is supplementing a 40 acre greenhouse with c02. The bud sites are so damned starved for carbon, top dressing something like bone meal becomes more of a carbon fertilizer than a phosphorous fertilizer. The slaughterhouse material, or similar phosphorus source, becomes the emergency carbon source that builds the developing buds.

The most obvious example of the outcome: Sour Diesel that smokes like a pack of hotdogs. And Cookies that tastes like "earth", purp that tastes like plastic, etc etc. "Meaty" is not a natural Cannabis strain taste. I don't care what it smells like, garlic, onions, steak, A1 sauce: bud can only taste sweet or sour, like a candy version of whatever it tastes like. Not salty, not meaty, not savory, not umami. If your Garlicbud tastes salty, it's garlic oil. If your Cheese tasty salty, it's coated in Serenade. If your bud tastes meaty, or grainy or cough droppy, or plasticy, it's because you fed it bone meal while it was seeking carbon so desperately that it had began to eat itself from the inside (and also its children had it been pollenated).
 
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Growenhaft

Active member
the thing about phosphate is that the greatest need for it is during the rooting and growth phase.

If there is sufficient phosphate there, head-to-tail condensation occurs in the course of the flowering, resulting in geranyl pyrophosphate. and that is the most important component when it comes to aroma, taste, smell and effect.

If too little phosphorus is present, or too much, this will have a negative effect on the formation of geranyl pyrophosphate. It is just the art to go this way to get the maximum amount of terpene plus phenol (= cannabinoid).
 
yes, xylem and phloem are a plant's vascular system, but I don't think a hollow stem matters anything...

see this picture of what a stem looks like if you make a slide and look trough a microscope:

dicot-stem-1.jpg


see how the xylem/phloem bundles are arranged in a circle, around the middle, closer to the skin than the core of the stem?

so hollow pith or solid pith, that shouldn't matter for nutrient/water transport or sugartransport, since the phloem and xylem are not in the pith(the middle of the stem)Anatomy of the Cannabis plant
 

f-e

Well-known member
Mentor
Veteran
Isn't P the one that gives hard black ash? I have often wondered. K sparkles. N tastes like a plant you shouldn't be eating. These are my ideas on it. I did read P tastes chemically but assign that to N myself.
 

Switcher56

Comfortably numb!
Commercial weed is churn and burn, whereas what we do is TLC. Furthermore, the BIGGEST problem with commercial weed is the lack of trichomes as the buds aren't hand trimmed, they are tumbled. The trimmings then turned into resins etc... maximizing profits. Folks new to cannabis wouldn't/don't know the difference. I remember days of old, and most no longer available. Nonetheless, I may not be an experienced grower, my shit is better than what can be acquired from commercial outlets. :tiphat:
 

Cuddles

Well-known member
But then I remembered my foremost rule of growing: don't feed in flower. I like doing experiments that no one else does, so I decided to feed a bed in flower. Phosphorus is all it took to wipe out the natural strain smell of every strain and replace them with "dispensary weed" smells.

If this is true for flowering then maybe I should go out and buy some P to keep the neighbours ` out ´.
 

flylowgethigh

Non-growing Lurker
ICMag Donor
That tumble trim BS is why I started growing. Farmer denied it, but my eyes can see. I just leave the sugar leaves on, all it does is make..... sorry in advance...

Shaggy Ballz.


When they gonna let ole Shaggy back in?
 

mexweed

Well-known member
Veteran
around here the recreational that goes for $150+ an oz is fucking fire, there are grow brands and shops that grow their own supply that advertise living soil, there are usually other organic options too, but honestly the salt stuff in the same price range holds its own, it's only noticeably shitty if you go for the cheapest stuff available
the cure is nice dry and fluffy but sticks together in a clump when pinching some to load a bowl, loud gassy chemdog skunky smells dominate the air at the right time I will be driving by a dispensary grow with my windows down and go woah is that the weed or did someone hit a skunk
 

Switcher56

Comfortably numb!
around here the recreational that goes for $150+ an oz is fucking fire, there are grow brands and shops that grow their own supply that advertise living soil, there are usually other organic options too, but honestly the salt stuff in the same price range holds its own, it's only noticeably shitty if you go for the cheapest stuff available
the cure is nice dry and fluffy but sticks together in a clump when pinching some to load a bowl, loud gassy chemdog skunky smells dominate the air at the right time I will be driving by a dispensary grow with my windows down and go woah is that the weed or did someone hit a skunk

A la Newfanese, it depends where your to son :) You are comparing apples and oranges. Here the BM offers decent weed @ $150-175/oz and $200 for the really dank stuff. What is legally sold at govt outlets here costs $150/quarter or $600/oz (taxes in) and its OK. The really good shit... $200-250/qtr. Its a no brainer why I grow my own :tiphat:
 

mexweed

Well-known member
Veteran
yeah $250 a quarter is crazy $260 is the highest price for a rec oz here some places will go a bit higher for cheetah piss or a 35% batch of chemmy jones or something but not worth it imo, because the rec is fire bm is locked in at $80-$100 an oz try asking for more and they'll just go to a shop or their usual guy will do one for $75
 

Switcher56

Comfortably numb!
Here it is sold by the gram. There is no discount for qty and you are only allowed to buy an oz or less at a time because possession limit is 30g. An err on the side of caution.
 

Cuddles

Well-known member
Here it is sold by the gram. There is no discount for qty and you are only allowed to buy an oz or less at a time because possession limit is 30g. An err on the side of caution.

where abouts are you again? How much do they charge for an oz.
 

aridbud

automeister
ICMag Donor
Veteran
That tumble trim BS is why I started growing. Farmer denied it, but my eyes can see. I just leave the sugar leaves on, all it does is make..... sorry in advance...

Shaggy Ballz.

When they gonna let ole Shaggy back in?

Never???
 

f-e

Well-known member
Mentor
Veteran
I would think the stems hollowing out after P, was a good sign. It only happens to aid growth. So there was a growth spurt? It also tells us this growth spurt wasn't supported by what could be found in the plant pot. Was there a deficiency seen?

I think I know the dispensary smell. Amsterdam shops all have a prominent smell, that I reckon they associate with weed. Not feed. Though I have known it's feed for years.

Industry tests to date, have found 40ppm P enough. Canna coco and Ionic coco both have about 40ppm. GH coco feed is about the same. Hydro and soil might be 80ppm. However some commercial feeds are targeting 180. For seed crops in cooler conditions.


My take away from this thread, might be that P is the chemical taste in a lot of bud. I can see people pushing it everywhere, have been told twice now that it's probably the key issue.
 

Dropped Cat

Six Gummi Bears and Some Scotch
Veteran
Hollow stems are pheno dependent. As I have been flowering the same family of cultivars for years,
cuttings are steady, the hollow stem types and solid stem types flower and veg consistently
according to their disposition.

I haven't found a solid pith type to transform to a hollow type, and vice versa.

Maybe a boron deficiency, lol.
 
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